14 replies to this topic

[TurtleTuber]

I recognized that Magicans can still flinch with their Z-Attack and push you against the wall so you cant escape, i dont know if other classes also still have the flinch on their first x/ z attack, but it seems kinda unfair.

 

Or do you guys make a difference between flinch and knockback? For me the knockback is way more overpowered, maybe a bit harder to perform, but once you get close to a wall they can spam you to the wall until you die, and you have no chance to escape.

 

Even when summoner still had the flinch on their Smartshot you were able to escape it. But thats not possible at all at that knockback classes, which makes it for me as overpowered as the flinch-effect or even more op. Im only 100% sure, that Magicans still have a knockback at their z attack. I didnt find any DK/ Overlord and Twin yet, to see if they have flinch/kockback at their first x/z attack.

 

So heres my question, why do some classes kept the ability to wallbang others and to cancel every of their skills if they spam the z/x button fast enough and why did you remove the flinch (which was at least escapeable) from the other classes?

 

Thats kinda unfair :/

[Apocryphos]

Basically all first x chains combo have no flinch and all ranged chains combos have no flinch. But considering magicians have a two first chain comboes z spam is still viable to them it seems that they overlooked chain z for magicians since theyre the only class that has a first step chain z that hits. But then again zspamming to death by magician isnt exactly efficient when its more effective to cc and xspam rather than push to a wall.

[Vossel]

if you kill an enemy he just respawns and has a new chance to attack.

using the chain to lock them as long as possible is the safest way to keep the lead as long as possible

[Apocryphos]

But if they wanted to do that there are better means witches curse, barbarian, magnet. instead of being occupied keeping zspam up not to mention zspamming causes burning which releases witches curse.

Edited by Apocryphos, 03 April 2017 - 08:32 AM.

[TurtleTuber]

Its not about burn or whats the most effective way to lock, its just that flinch/ knockback got removed from other classes because stuff like spamming people against a wall by spamming 1 button as fast as possible wasnt wanted. Thats why i cant understand that mages still have that advantage above all other classes. And @Apocryphos, i think the ability to spam a group of 3 peoples against a wall + having superarmor while spamming Z is as good as locking someone with witch curse and barb (which both got a %tal chance to fail) or even better.

[Starkespada1]

Probably because mages have no stuns on their chain combos, most invokers don't even use chain combo anymore since they will x spam faster without it and Sorcerers have no catching abilities what so ever and only use it to push people into their blizzard/fire emblem.

 

Edited by Starkespada1, 03 April 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Owra]

Unlike other classes, magician chain combo have a minor cooldown. Even so the class able to knockback with Z attack, but it is nearly impossible to spam it equally fast as other close range class.

I tried before and mage can't spam Z attack. The time gap is enough for other classes to escape. Chain combo barely useful for locking people

[TurtleTuber]

@Owra:

 

well, i always see people spamming others against the wall in BSQ (probalby some sort of macro? idk). 

 

 

@Starkespada1:

 

All the Invoker and SOrcerer i see in BSQ are using chaincombo (alone for superarmor to get not launched and for canceling skills of the opponent) so your point makes therefore no sense, since you can also use the "fast x-attack" only together with chaincombo ticked, which is basically a x-spam macro and pretty much as fast as shooting with chain unticked.

 

They could still use the flinch of the second Z attack to push people in Blizzard and so on, like every other classes also can only use the flinch/knockback of the second X/Z attack. If you want to say that Mages get underpowered without the flinch on 1st hit, i dont think so. They still got the healing abilities which no other class got in that form and Sorcerers just recently got at all their Skills element Dmg, which hits kinda hard with Fire Emblem.

 

Thieves also have no stun at their chaincombo, and the 1st flinch got also removed, therefor it makes no sense that Magicans kept the flinch because they got no stunning abilities at their chaincombos.

 

Edited by TurtleTuber, 03 April 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[ok121]

@Owra:

 

well, i always see people spamming others against the wall in BSQ (probalby some sort of macro? idk). 

 

 

@Starkespada1:

 

All the Invoker and SOrcerer i see in BSQ are using chaincombo (alone for superarmor to get not launched and for canceling skills of the opponent) so your point makes therefore no sense, since you can also use the "fast x-attack" only together with chaincombo ticked, which is basically a x-spam macro and pretty much as fast as shooting with chain unticked.

 

They could still use the flinch of the second Z attack to push people in Blizzard and so on, like every other classes also can only use the flinch/knockback of the second X/Z attack. If you want to say that Mages get underpowered without the flinch on 1st hit, i dont think so. They still got the healing abilities which no other class got in that form and Sorcerers just recently got at all their Skills element Dmg, which hits kinda hard with Fire Emblem.

 

Thieves also have no stun at their chaincombo, and the 1st flinch got also removed, therefor it makes no sense that Magicans kept the flinch because they got no stunning abilities at their chaincombos.

From my understanding it seems like you want all classes to have the same ruling for their combos. So all classes should either have stun on their combos or should have no stuns In their combos and the same goes for flinches. I particularly don't care, however, I would like to mention that every class has a counter play against each others chain combo skills. For instance, if you were playing an archer class you could easily rolling stun (x down z) a sorcerer z spam if timed correctly. This basically leaves the class vulnerable to a burst or lock combo. BSQ is a different ball game since its team oriented you should play around your teammates strengths so you could overcome your foe.

[TurtleTuber]

Yes, ofc i aim for equality on chaincombo rules, that what this topic is about.

 

You say each class has a counter play against each others chain combo skills? I think Thieves lack behind, and noone counters Mages at close range, since, they have all their flinch/knockback at the second attack, while Mage got it at the first one. I wouldnt add archers stun in that comparision, since it works different. It depends on how far are you staying away from the Mage, how often are you able to roll, will the Mage stand still whilse you roll towards him, will he go back or forward and how good can you time the stun...... If you start at close range, Mage will just wallbang you. For all other classes vs Mage this is fact, because of the reason posted above.

Edited by TurtleTuber, 03 April 2017 - 04:25 PM.

[Agitodesu]

I really haven't seen mages abuse that often since the dps sucks, gets caught easily since it has a locked animation, and you have to be in melee range in order to z spam something. In other words if you are z spamming efficiently, you need a wall (plenty in water map, 2 walls on fire), you are going to get caught by someone else, get sucked into a magnet, or hit by any other cc, you need some sort of attack speed in order to maintain a solid lock, you need to have decent fps in order to sustain that attack speed. I can go on.

 

Summoners have an instant ranged ZZ stun while archers need to roll. Archers have no cooldown on stun and summoners do.

 

It's as if the first flinch on x on ranged classes weren't good enough as a nerf. Chain combos were meant to bring along some type of CC because you wouldn't be able to execute or chain it properly in pvp and pve if it didn't. Along with the fact that the chain combo system was hyped up since release.

 

Mages have no viable form of catching with chain combos unlike archers. Don't include how much CC they have since sentinels equally rely on stuns to be flashy while having a lot of locking potential.

 

They originally removed first x flinches from all classes because some players that decided to hack or something played summoners/archers/invokers and spammed invisible x attacks into nothing, and it would hit across the map to you while flinching. It affected almost every class especially Patk classes since a lot of there skills get canceled when anything hit them. Thus nerfing the first x attack flinch on every ranged class and some melee classes.

Edited by Agitodesu, 03 April 2017 - 05:01 PM.

[Owra]

@Owra:

 

well, i always see people spamming others against the wall in BSQ (probalby some sort of macro? idk). 

 

 

Ah, BSQ... still... I entirely doubt mages able to do that much unless the player is a lagger (possible) 

Even my Invoker with max atk speed, I still unable to lock players even if  I want to. The DPS damage just sucks where I prefers use the class skill

[TurtleTuber]

@Agitodesu well, as i sai i see many people abusing that, and also you can get catched by whatever you do with your class. If you cast magnet you can also get catched.

 

This is not about what could happen to you if you spam some1 against the wall. If uts a 1o1 then no1 can interrupt you. If its a 2o2 and your teammate takes care about the other guy, then you can also do it all day long. Its about the possibility to spam some1 against the wall, not about the question in what scenario it has its biggest use to do that.

 

If flinch got removed because some classes gave invisible hits and because it hits over the half map, so why did it get removed from Thieves, which cant even stun with it, nor gives it a knockback which allows to spam ppl against the wall, while Mages still can use it??

 

@Owra

 

This is not about how you deal the most dps. If you have low atk its even more good to lock an enemy over time in BSQ so he cant support his team, you can keep him busy till your team arrives.

 

The most people have freeze at lv 5, which has a solid chance to miss. Therefore a groundlock with freeze isnt safe. Probably thats why ppl abuse the flinch at their z attack.

Edited by TurtleTuber, 04 April 2017 - 12:58 AM.

[Vossel]

This Flinch on their first hit of the Z chaincombo also makes the mages the biggest counter to the Savage, The Savage gains super armor while performing his dances, the flinch on the chaincombo just ends the dance and the super armor from the dance, this is really easy to perform, you just need 270% attackspeed and to press z once he gets close to you. This is also safe, cuz if you freze someone while he is performing some kind of knockup over time, like the headspin, the knockup keeps up while he is freezed, if you cancel the dance nearly on an instant and freeze then, its safe to keep the combo up.

Either all should have the flinch or no one, i am totally fine if invoker or summoner get the flinch on the x attack as long as they have the flinch only when smart shot/double shot or so are NOT active. In my opinion higher dps should be punished by lower CC

[TurtleTuber]

 

Either all should have the flinch or no one

+1