49 replies to this topic

[allygator1]

Hi there! Thanks for your concern here. I wanted to respond to the particular point above - while the rules are still in effect, the reason why you might still see some plagiarized work is because sometimes I don't see it first with my own two eyes. What looks "normal" to me is easily identified as plagiarism by someone else who perhaps has greater knowledge of the particular thing they're trying to plagiarize, know what I'm saying? For this, I've been immensely grateful for the reports against plagiarized work. That's not behavior that we will ever condone here.

 

Secondly, I'm quite saddened to see how this has gotten out of hand. I did not follow through on my statement to bind the hats months ago largely due to blowback - after all, I don't want to negatively impact so many fine fanartists just for the actions of a few who would abuse the system. Unfortunately, it looks as though there are enough people who would abuse it to the point of really wrecking the experience for everyone, and I don't want that.

 

I'll be taking your opinions into consideration with regards on how to move forward with this.

Its ok, you can make it up to us by giving us a slightly darker red hat.  I also wouldn't mind a tactical creative contraptions hat that comes in a dark black and a slightly darker black.

[ChakriGuard]

after all, I don't want to negatively impact so many few fine fan artists just for the actions of a few many people who would abuse the system. Unfortunately, it looks as though there are enough people who would abuse it to the point of really wrecking the experience for everyone, and I don't want that.

 

Corrected it for you. You're welcome   

[xXFrankoXx]

It seems a new thread about this has started... and sadly, nothing has changed from last time.

First of all I want to put in clear that many of the "solutions" for this concerns may be right, and at least 2 of them should be really implemented.

 

What really bother me here, is some of the people concerned with the quality of the load screens.

Reassons why? =

_Many of them arent the artist of this forum section.

_Many of them doesnt understand art itself.

_Many of them doesnt even care about the main problem, still try to change rules/rewards just to bother the artists.

 

Also its sad that the CM are influenced by them without hearing the people that really work hard and take care by their own work, doesnt matter the result of it...

 

How come now people is concerned about load screens that they do like or they doesnt?

I must agree that many of the latest ones we had was indeed zero effort and only "hat farming". And I agree that something must be done with that. 

But really, choosing or judging a picture by : Like/No like, B&W/Color, Digital/Traditional, Realistic/Abstract, that criteria is indeed a bit short for the Universe that the word art means.

 

Many post with that content make me think, why I must change my style to be choosen, or like others? Why the rewards I can get from a Picture where I put all my dedication must be affect by third persons that doesnt even care about they are watching?

And maybe Im not the only the only one? Maybe thats the reasson that the Art section its so quiet lately?

 

Once again I want to say, Im against art plagiarism, Im against picture with zero effort, Im against the "Hat Farmers"

But mostly important, im against the art trolls... yeah, art trolls that only came here to discourage others.

I hope the CM and mods read, and read again overlines many of the post here and in the other threads with same concerns.

If you think about it, a little bit of the artist of the forums are worried about this matter, yet the rest are people that judge without previous knowing.

That doesnt means they doesnt have right to judge. They also play the game, and must watch the load screens liked or not. Thats not a problem, but discouraging others or influence the CM decissions... thats too far away of the main concern.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

I hope the mods/CM also take note of my concern and help to keep clean this section of those darker posts and more artists here feel motivated and go back to upload their amazing art.

[ShenYuel]

Hello, I just want to give my humble opinion.

I know i'm not even an artis but i think i'm talking for many of them when im saying that, make the hats "untradeable" is not the way of solve this, because you all don't understand or... already understand but don't care about it, few of our artist submit draws in the threads not only because they like to draw or they like the game, many of our artist submit their art to try of make few zeny selling these hats so... i don't really get it why you all doing such a drama, i mean 700m~1B once a month for effort days or week in a drawing seems nothing bad to me, but i am only talking about artist who submit their own art, not about people that submit commissions, just think about it... if hats become acc bound, our artist will gonna reduce submiting cuz they are getting nothing as reward their effort, which in this case is the zeny of selling the prizes and everytime we gonna have less and less good arts and draws in our loading screen server.

Im saying this also, because i agree with Franko, few people here seems like they want all the cake for themselves (submit and get hats to sell them) and won't share some with other artist that are really effort time to make their art, and those people just dedicate the day on "judge" without knowing like Franko said.

I know, few people just submit "scribbles" or "bad drawing" and similars, trying to abuse the system but come on... don't mind about them, like the rules say, the draw need to be on loading screens to submiter can get the prize of it, also everyone have differens skills of drawing, thats the good of this thread, can watch the different skills of they single one.
better think about and remember that, the real artist, few of them are try to earn some zeny for their arts selling the hat prizes.

Edited by ShenYuel, 02 May 2017 - 08:39 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

Except the CMs never intended for the hats to be profited off of, so your argument serves to make them want to add more restictions. If all people want to do is make money off free hats, then they should argue for them to be made available in-game as quests instead of keeping them art contest-only.

[ChakriGuard]

Kind people are nice but usually are seen as dumbasses by opportunitists who always abuse and take advantages of goodness. I'm just going to leave it here xD

[Vogun]

Hi there! Thanks for your concern here. I wanted to respond to the particular point above - while the rules are still in effect, the reason why you might still see some plagiarized work is because sometimes I don't see it first with my own two eyes. What looks "normal" to me is easily identified as plagiarism by someone else who perhaps has greater knowledge of the particular thing they're trying to plagiarize, know what I'm saying? For this, I've been immensely grateful for the reports against plagiarized work. That's not behavior that we will ever condone here.

 

Secondly, I'm quite saddened to see how this has gotten out of hand. I did not follow through on my statement to bind the hats months ago largely due to blowback - after all, I don't want to negatively impact so many fine fanartists just for the actions of a few who would abuse the system. Unfortunately, it looks as though there are enough people who would abuse it to the point of really wrecking the experience for everyone, and I don't want that.

 

I'll be taking your opinions into consideration with regards on how to move forward with this.

You don't condone it, sure, but your actions say don't mind it.  I see an unnamed user still posting on this forum, just not on the loading screen submissions right now.  And I bet he's going to get a green hat anyway through the hocuspocus of an alternate account.

 

Secondly, "this has gotten out of hand" is a bit of a disservice to VModCinnamon who has been keeping a very wary eye on us law breakers, bending the speaking out law, since the very first.  Out of hand? I mean, this has been a page and a half of grumbling, that's like a 20 minute read?  If you'd like we can count the other [Concern] thread; that's 2 threads in a month.

 

 

 

...

 

But really, choosing or judging a picture by : Like/No like, B&W/Color, Digital/Traditional, Realistic/Abstract, that criteria is indeed a bit short for the Universe that the word art means.

 

Many post with that content make me think, why I must change my style to be choosen, or like others? Why the rewards I can get from a Picture where I put all my dedication must be affect by third persons that doesnt even care about they are watching?

And maybe Im not the only the only one? Maybe thats the reasson that the Art section its so quiet lately?

 

Once again I want to say, Im against art plagiarism, Im against picture with zero effort, Im against the "Hat Farmers"

But mostly important, im against the art trolls... yeah, art trolls that only came here to discourage others.

 

If you think about it, a little bit of the artist of the forums are worried about this matter, yet the rest are people that judge without previous knowing.

That doesnt means they doesnt have right to judge. They also play the game, and must watch the load screens liked or not. Thats not a problem, but discouraging others or influence the CM decissions... thats too far away of the main concern.

 

...

 

I hope the mods/CM also take note of my concern and help to keep clean this section of those darker posts and more artists here feel motivated and go back to upload their amazing art.

I think, think, you're on my side here but what are these art trolls and the darker posts?  I guess I'll never know as such things can't exist here.  

 

Also, I don't understand how you can say you can't judge a picture by "Like/No like, B&W/Color, Digital/Traditional, Realistic/Abstract" yet you soon say "Im against picture with zero effort".  Implicit in that posturing is that you can judge a picture for lack of effort and moreover then take a decisive stand against it.  CMAstra also said xhe would "expect there to be some level of quality and effort" but you start your speech with "and sadly, nothing has changed from last time" implying xhe didn't judge how you would've judged.

 

What am I saying...  I'm saying that art can be judged, it is judged by everyone everyday, even as their mouths say art can't be evaluated.  We all know what we like and don't like. Sure, judges may miss the point, not see the minutia, not understand the message, not comprehend the genius, and later on the genius is formally recognised and then woe betide that teacher who said "Pablo really sucks at drawing" who's then recognised as a short sighted moron, but do you really think our CMs are judging at that level?  Maybe they are and I'm a short sighted moron.

 

All I know is, I don't like some of these loading screens and I don't like that some of these loading screens have just earned that user 700-1000 million zeny, apparently.  And I should be able to voice that expression even if it does or doesn't change the CMs decissions [sic].

 

 

 

...many of our artist submit their art to try of make few zeny selling these hats so...  i mean 700m~1B once a month for effort days or week in a drawing seems nothing bad to me

 

... if hats become acc bound, our artist will gonna reduce submiting cuz they are getting nothing as reward their effort, which in this case is the zeny of selling the prizes and everytime we gonna have less and less good arts and draws in our loading screen server.

Im saying this also, because i agree with Franko, few people here seems like they want all the cake for themselves (submit and get hats to sell them) and won't share some with other artist that are really effort time to make their art, and those people just dedicate the day on "judge" without knowing like Franko said.

I know, few people just submit "scribbles" or "bad drawing" and similars, trying to abuse the system but come on... don't mind about them, like the rules say, the draw need to be on loading screens to submiter can get the prize of it, also everyone have differens skills of drawing, thats the good of this thread, can watch the different skills of they single one.
better think about and remember that, the real artist, few of them are try to earn some zeny for their arts selling the hat prizes.

You say you agree with Franko but I'm not sure xFrankoX agrees with you.  You are voicing the exact kind of thing I'm against. 

 

You say it's okay to earn a 700+ million zeny hat for "days or week" of effort but do you think the loading screens we saw in game took days or weeks of effort?  So what you're saying is that the idea is good but you later say people are exploiting it and then you say don't mind them.  You're telling us all not to mind the abusers and exploiters.  You say a "few people" but I'm saying most people.  Only a very few loading screens have been worth 700-1000 million, IMVHO.  If you disagree you can prove the concept by trying to sell your work for 850 million.

 

What are you talking about here "few people here seems like they want all the cake for themselves (submit and get hats to sell them) and won't share some with other artist that are really effort time to make their art"  I put the words together and try to translate them into a concept but my mind rejects all the results as ridiculous.

 

Regardless, if the green hats really are worth 700-1000 million then what do you think is going to happen to all these art commission shops, most of whom charge much less zeny for much more work?  If you've arrived at the same conclusion as I did three weeks ago, you'd close shop too.

[VModCinnamon]

There have been strict actions taken as of the past 2 days against some entries/users. If there are others that need our attention please send us a forum report or contact a CM / mod directly through the forum's messenger.

Art is subjective and I am sure the staff consider that closely when judging, the issue is when abuse happen with mass account creation or continued art theft.

[Demeris]

I just think it's unnecessary to allow players to just make a forum account (<10 posts) and just post art from their friends to get a "creative hat."

Because this hasn't been regulated thoroughly, people see it more as a scheme to take advantage of rather than "give Astra some cool content."

I propose we restrict Green Convention Hats some more. I noticed a lot of the "effortless" commissions with low posts counts are only interested in getting that hat.

 

Either we A) Make the artist submit the art for them and have the item be gifted to their character with a 1 month limit from the artist, or allow users to submit an entry with over 150 posts to actually show they wanna be part of the community.

Edited by Demeris, 03 May 2017 - 04:07 PM.

[ShenYuel]

You don't condone it, sure, but your actions say don't mind it.  I see an unnamed user still posting on this forum, just not on the loading screen submissions right now.  And I bet he's going to get a green hat anyway through the hocuspocus of an alternate account.

 

Secondly, "this has gotten out of hand" is a bit of a disservice to VModCinnamon who has been keeping a very wary eye on us law breakers, bending the speaking out law, since the very first.  Out of hand? I mean, this has been a page and a half of grumbling, that's like a 20 minute read?  If you'd like we can count the other [Concern] thread; that's 2 threads in a month.

 

 

I think, think, you're on my side here but what are these art trolls and the darker posts?  I guess I'll never know as such things can't exist here.  

 

Also, I don't understand how you can say you can't judge a picture by "Like/No like, B&W/Color, Digital/Traditional, Realistic/Abstract" yet you soon say "Im against picture with zero effort".  Implicit in that posturing is that you can judge a picture for lack of effort and moreover then take a decisive stand against it.  CMAstra also said xhe would "expect there to be some level of quality and effort" but you start your speech with "and sadly, nothing has changed from last time" implying xhe didn't judge how you would've judged.

 

What am I saying...  I'm saying that art can be judged, it is judged by everyone everyday, even as their mouths say art can't be evaluated.  We all know what we like and don't like. Sure, judges may miss the point, not see the minutia, not understand the message, not comprehend the genius, and later on the genius is formally recognised and then woe betide that teacher who said "Pablo really sucks at drawing" who's then recognised as a short sighted moron, but do you really think our CMs are judging at that level?  Maybe they are and I'm a short sighted moron.

 

All I know is, I don't like some of these loading screens and I don't like that some of these loading screens have just earned that user 700-1000 million zeny, apparently.  And I should be able to voice that expression even if it does or doesn't change the CMs decissions [sic].

 

 

 

You say you agree with Franko but I'm not sure xFrankoX agrees with you.  You are voicing the exact kind of thing I'm against. 

 

You say it's okay to earn a 700+ million zeny hat for "days or week" of effort but do you think the loading screens we saw in game took days or weeks of effort?  So what you're saying is that the idea is good but you later say people are exploiting it and then you say don't mind them.  You're telling us all not to mind the abusers and exploiters.  You say a "few people" but I'm saying most people.  Only a very few loading screens have been worth 700-1000 million, IMVHO.  If you disagree you can prove the concept by trying to sell your work for 850 million.

 

What are you talking about here "few people here seems like they want all the cake for themselves (submit and get hats to sell them) and won't share some with other artist that are really effort time to make their art"  I put the words together and try to translate them into a concept but my mind rejects all the results as ridiculous.

 

Regardless, if the green hats really are worth 700-1000 million then what do you think is going to happen to all these art commission shops, most of whom charge much less zeny for much more work?  If you've arrived at the same conclusion as I did three weeks ago, you'd close shop too.

I was talking metaphoric with the "cake" part

1st- i was talking about artist that they submit they own art, i know how annoying it's to see someone who submit commission selling a green hat for 1b in eden, then artists feel "is unfair" thats 1 problem and something im againts

2nd- i said "dont mind them" because rules say "the art need to be exposed into loading screens to earn the prize" right? if their art its too bad of course not gonna be into loading screens

3rd- now you aiming those bad arts into loading screens and saying "do you think this effort days or weeks?" and i gonna answer you easy with one exemple Astra have slots to fullfill on loading screen, lets say those are 20 slots right?
then... what gonna happen if only 19 "good artist/draw" are submited?
the answer it's easy, Astra is forced to add 1 draw, the best draw of the worst and then! is where people here being complaining now... see my point, if less good artist submit draws it gonna happen this, we gonna have more and more "not effort" draw in the screens, the reason number one why artist gonna stop submit its bcs they not getting zeny for their art, like i said, selling the hat is how they get few zeny 700m~1B per month it's nothing, lets be clear, only 4 colors of hats, what gonna happen if someday this X artist get all the 4 colors and can't sell green/red hat?
easy again, this X artist gonna stop of submit arts cuz "dont wroth work weeks to get a hat which gonna be stuck in you account forever", and then we come back at the begining of the 3rd point im showing, from 20 slots, 18 good art 2 bad art, cuz Astra is forced to fullfill those slots, got it my point?

less good art submited = more bad/not effort art in the loading screens, thats how i think it's happening but then artist say "i gonna stop submit cuz they adding effortless draws to load screens" they just letting more free slots to those "effortless" draws get into load screens and become worst if artist can't get zeny for their art selling the hat, thats my point of sight.

but yeh im against of people trying to abuse the system

Edited by ShenYuel, 03 May 2017 - 04:31 PM.

[ZeroTigress]

iRO honestly does not need fanart to put into the loading screens, they have plenty of official loading screen art to use in place of them. So I'm confused as to why they're so desperate these days to shove as much fanart into the loading screens as possible.

Over in kRO, they're not as needy for fanart loading screens as we are over here because they actually have a dedicated section on their website for fanart. http://ro.gnjoy.com/...fanart/list.asp Looks like their fanart section even has a leveling feature for artists. Dunno if EXP is based on quality or quantity of submissions, but that's a genuinely neat way for artists to participate in the community.

iRO has completely ruined the joy of seeing your own art in-game by throwing headgear abuse into it, so I honestly wouldn't mind if we adopt a kRO approach to fanart over the loading screen stuffing iRO does now.

[Demeris]

I spy, with my little eye, 4 green convention hat sellers in Eden. Can you guys find them?

Edited by Demeris, 03 May 2017 - 10:03 PM.

[Simona]

I spy, with my little eye, 4 green convention hat sellers in Eden. Can you guys find them?
 

 

But what's the crime? Once a person has got the hat, it is their choice what to do with it. Isn't this thread about a (totally legitimate) concern in how some people acquire the hats? 

[Demeris]

The problem is that there is a high market value to the green convention hat, which lowers the quality of submission. People are making forum accounts just to post a submission to try for easy items. It's pathetic to see and the players are forced to see the ugly loading screens in game. I see a bad ms paint and I feel embarrass to be reminded of what was used as loading screens.

Edited by Demeris, 03 May 2017 - 11:53 PM.

[Simona]

The problem is that there is a high market value to the green convention hat, which lowers the quality of submission. People are making forum accounts just to post a submission to try for easy items. It's pathetic to see and the players are forced to see the ugly loading screens in game. I see a bad ms paint and I feel embarrass to be reminded of what was used as loading screens.

 

Absolutely. And that was my point - the crime isn't the fact that people sell their hats, but how they are acquired, aka the hat-farming. But yeah, unfortunately it's very difficult to set quality limits without stirring up some tushy-tantrums. 

I wouldn't mind the removal of participation prizes altogether; sure, they're awesome, but not necessarily... necessary 

 

But not before I claim a red hat for my vendor, hehehehe    And I don't even have any good ideas yet   

Edited by Simona, 04 May 2017 - 12:29 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

The problem is that there is a high market value to the green convention hat, which lowers the quality of submission. People are making forum accounts just to post a submission to try for easy items. It's pathetic to see and the players are forced to see the ugly loading screens in game. I see a bad ms paint and I feel embarrass to be reminded of what was used as loading screens.

Well, the green one is the only hat with a costume variant, the rest are just regular headgears.

Now the question is, do we have the costume version on iRO or are people scamming players with the regular version?

[IncyI]

I think Warpportal would benefit from deciding what they want loading screens to be for. Are the loading screens:

a ) for players to enjoy looking at between maps, 

b ) to create an opportunity for players who don't like farming in game to earn money in an alternative method outside of the game,

c ) to showcase the best of the RO community's talent, or

d ) for everyone to show off their work in game?

 

  This is important for Warpportal to decide and identify, because it helps you narrow down how to deal with the current unhappiness in the RO community regarding loading screens. Any one of these purposes are good, some even go together well! But some of these motivations are mutually exclusive, and that's the problem. You can't, For example, have option 'a' (your player base enjoying your loading screens) unless you exclude low quality entries that people wouldn't enjoy seeing, ruling out option 'd' (everyone gets to show there work), because the truth is that most people who don't draw regularly are bad at it. You need to practice a lot to make pictures people would want to see in game. Similarly, you can't have 'b' (alternative source of money for people who love the game but don't want to farm) without disrupting 'a' (player enjoyment of loading screens) and c (showcasing the best talent in the RO community).

 

Let's looks at some of the solutions available to us!

 

1) -Make the GCCH un-tradeable.

        Upside: In time, less thieves & exploiters will enter, weeding out many of the rushed loading screens drawn by people who just want easy money.

        Downside: This also penalizes artists who didn't exploit the system, making them lose the ability to trade their GCCH for zeny.

 

2)- Limit the statted Green hat to the 'top 40 this month' or some similar number, whilst keeping the other costumes as a participation reward.

        Upsides: Everyone will put in more effort, even artists who are already of an acceptable standard! In other words, it will incentivise all to try their best! It will also deter exploiters from entering rushed/shoddy work, as well as stop people wanting to make multiple accounts to submit multiple quick, poor quality works, since the 1 Billion zeny hat is no longer easy to exploit with a 30 minute doodle pic. Plus, even people who would enter for fun (without the intent to exploit, since there's nothing easy to exploit) will still get a fun costume reward and a chance to appear in the loading screens! 

       Downside: Some will be disappointed when they don't win. That said, as the Mods here have said to artists who are currently unable to get passed the present effort/quality requirements, you can always commission an artist who is better if the only reason you're entering is the hat.

 

3)- Same as above, but this time only allowing the top 40 into the loading screens and not including the others.

        Upsides: Same as before, plus only good loading screens that everyone will enjoy appear in the game.

        Downsides:  Same as before, but also a lot of people who legitimately tried or who actually entered for fun and (not to exploit) will be left out and wont get to see their art in game. 

 

4)- Remove the stats from the GCCH (Or remove the prizes entirely).

        Upside: It will disincentivise the exploiters, and so we will have less rushed works on our loading screens.

        Downside:  Artists who didn't exploit the system lose both the useful stats and the monetary value of the hat for trade.  (See: 'This is why we can't have nice things' ). A few artists will also be disincentivised and we will get less loading screen submissions. Note: not many good artists who draw because they love drawing would stop if the prizes were removed. The prizes are not why we draw, they are a sign from Warpportal that they appreciate the time, effort and love the art community voluntarily puts into their game, and most artists know this.

 

Personally, I prefer the second option, with only the top 40 or so entries a month getting the 1 billion zeny hat, whilst everyone else still gets a good participation prize! This ensures that time/effort/talent are rewarded but so is taking part and joining in with the arty fun! Plus everyone will still have a chance to take part and get in the loading screens, and only those who wanted to abuse Warpportal staff's appreciation and kindness to get easy money will be dissuaded from entering!  

The CMs will have to handle some people complaining that they didn't win, but the CMs already have to do that, and the people complaining would almost all be the ones who were exploiting the system to begin with. 

 

If going with option 2, I would suggest you settle on a number between 20 and 40 of 'top entries' per month. Looking through submissions to this thread for the month of April we had 60 entries. Of those, personally I would consider only 34 entries good enough to be in the loading screens ( with 25 of those being ones that I actually liked, and with the other 9 having qualities that I could appreciate others might enjoy even if I didn't). Personally, I think 30 is the golden number here. 40 might be pushing it, as we'd still get the occasional exploiter through, but at least that would cut most of them out, and we'd be very unlikely to prevent anyone from getting the GCCH who genuinely entered without the intent to abuse the system.

 

Edited by IncyI, 04 May 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[Vogun]

I was talking metaphoric with the "cake" part

Metaphoric cake huh.  Also explain my confusion regarding you talking about artists refusing to share - quote: "won't share some with other artist that are really effort time to make their art"

 

1st- i was talking about artist that they submit they own art, i know how annoying it's to see someone who submit commission selling a green hat for 1b in eden, then artists feel "is unfair" thats 1 problem and something im againts

No.  You see, so long as the artist is okay with this, (maybe they don't play RO and zeny is worthless to them, maybe they're really generous), then this is fine.  What's not fine is when someone pays 200 million for art from an active player and gets 1000 million for submitting it as a load screen.  What's not fine is when someone submits stolen art, says "a friend drew this" and when caught, his post taken down, he walks off Scott-free, unless you believe the CMs when they say they got some "strict actions".

 

2nd- i said "dont mind them" because rules say "the art need to be exposed into loading screens to earn the prize" right? if their art its too bad of course not gonna be into loading screens

But they are getting into the loading screens, have you not been paying attention?  You even admit it later and call it "worst" art and reckon it's only put into the game as filler.

3rd- now you aiming those bad arts into loading screens and saying "do you think this effort days or weeks?" and i gonna answer you easy with one exemple Astra have slots to fullfill on loading screen, lets say those are 20 slots right?
then... what gonna happen if only 19 "good artist/draw" are submited?
the answer it's easy, Astra is forced to add 1 draw, the best draw of the worst and then! is where people here being complaining now... see my point, if less good artist submit draws it gonna happen this, we gonna have more and more "not effort" draw in the screens, the reason number one why artist gonna stop submit its bcs they not getting zeny for their art, like i said, selling the hat is how they get few zeny 700m~1B per month it's nothing, lets be clear, only 4 colors of hats, what gonna happen if someday this X artist get all the 4 colors and can't sell green/red hat?

No.  You are getting it wrong.  There doesn't have to be 20 slots.  And even if there NEEDS to be 20 slots we can use older official art or generic "Don't get scammed" screens.  Also, point out any artist that has already requested every other hat and is now 'forced' into choosing green.  

 

 

And just listen to yourself, you claim you're fighting for all the artists but you say stuff like the "best draw of the worst".  The worst.  

 

...

but yeh im against of people trying to abuse the system

I don't believe you.

 

Edited by Vogun, 04 May 2017 - 08:24 AM.

[ShinobiEX3]

Vogun your wrong on your first reponse point about selling art. Just to let you know.

[Vogun]

Vogun you're wrong on your first reponse point about selling art. Just to let you know.

Quote me so I know which point you're talking about.  Maybe explain why I'm wrong too.  Cos right now I don't know so your mission failed.

[xXFrankoXx]

 

I think, think, you're on my side here but what are these art trolls and the darker posts?  I guess I'll never know as such things can't exist here.  

 

Also, I don't understand how you can say you can't judge a picture by "Like/No like, B&W/Color, Digital/Traditional, Realistic/Abstract" yet you soon say "Im against picture with zero effort".  Implicit in that posturing is that you can judge a picture for lack of effort and moreover then take a decisive stand against it.  CMAstra also said xhe would "expect there to be some level of quality and effort" but you start your speech with "and sadly, nothing has changed from last time" implying xhe didn't judge how you would've judged.

 

What am I saying...  I'm saying that art can be judged, it is judged by everyone everyday, even as their mouths say art can't be evaluated.  We all know what we like and don't like. Sure, judges may miss the point, not see the minutia, not understand the message, not comprehend the genius, and later on the genius is formally recognised and then woe betide that teacher who said "Pablo really sucks at drawing" who's then recognised as a short sighted moron, but do you really think our CMs are judging at that level?  Maybe they are and I'm a short sighted moron.

 

All I know is, I don't like some of these loading screens and I don't like that some of these loading screens have just earned that user 700-1000 million zeny, apparently.  And I should be able to voice that expression even if it does or doesn't change the CMs decissions [sic].

 

 

Hi.

Sorry if I confuse you last time. I write a lot and my english isnt perfect. Thanks for mark me the missing points.

I replay to your questions.

 

1_About trolls and discouraging posts:

I cant put name/IGN on those, but I can tell you that some posts talk for theirselves. You can see it usually in other sections of this forums, but when they get bored, they jump here to bother us. And its not like "hey they are players too and have right to express their opinion"... this goes so far than that. You also have some of them here in your thread.

 

2_ When I start my speech about "and sadly, nothing has changed from last time" I was talking about the people mentioned up there. Still coming here bothering the art community and taking decission for ourselves. I trust CM's judgement, yet I dont like the only bell she heard is from those users that nothing have to do with the art section.

 

3_ About judging and zero effort:

Of course you can judge art. Different techniques or styles doesnt make a picture free of judging. As you said, we judge art every day, and we are free to choose what we like, and what we dont like. But here, in the forums, where usually some contest and the selection of the general load screen is organized, its obvious the most importan thing to be judged is the effort.

Its supossed when you enter in art contest, the most important thing is to overcome yourself, get the best of yourself, and lastly to see about what you are capable of. All that you can traduce into effort.

And thats why Im against entryes with no effort. Because those users doesnt care about the art or learning about theirselves. They are just abusing the system.  

 

Hope I make it more clear for you. Yet if something missing again, I dont mind to reply you.

As you said before, yes Im on your side here, and your words/thoughts as an artist of this forum section, means a lot.

[Road]

over the past few months i have noticed how some artist submit art for friends and themselves.

It is great to gift prizes to others but i believe it should be limited.

 

1 artist should only be allowed to submit one participation piece either for him/herself or for a friend.

1 artist should not be allowed to draw a lot of pictures, no matter how good the quality is and give them to friends, so they can participate in the loading screen selection.

It is only a matter of time before some people might want to exploit it.

 

 

[ZeroTigress]

All people want are the hats and they'll go through any lengths to get them, especially if the hats aren't offered outside the art community.

[Demeris]

over the past few months i have noticed how some artist submit art for friends and themselves.
It is great to gift prizes to others but i believe it should be limited.

1 artist should only be allowed to submit one participation piece either for him/herself or for a friend.
1 artist should not be allowed to draw a lot of pictures, no matter how good the quality is and give them to friends, so they can participate in the loading screen selection.
It is only a matter of time before some people might want to exploit it.

Unfortunately, it's the internet and we can have some easy impersonation if we want to or the artist is in on it. Sometimes I think about all the loopholes and wonder who will be the first to try to go through with it.

[Demeris]

It's getting to that point again lol.

Although, I do enjoy the new loading screens we have that are using the official doram artwork