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Classic Treasure Cache System Update


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#1 Ozallia

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:15 PM

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  • The updated Treasure Cache system is designed to focus on level tiered equipment, headgear certificate acquisition, and useful cards and consumables.
  • How: Defeat Cache Mimics while adventuring. Take the treasure caches they drop and a Key to the Key Master NPC in Asgard Village to receive buffs and rewards.

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  • Access to Asgard Village

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  • Keys:
    • Gallium Keys provide one roll on the reward table but are limited to consumables, weapons, armor, or cards.
    • Bronze Keys award one roll on the reward table when opening a treasure cache.
    • Bronze MVP Keys award one roll on the reward table when opening a treasure cache. These keys can be traded.
    • Silver Keys award two rolls on the reward table when opening a treasure cache.
    • Gold Keys award three rolls on the reward table when opening a treasure cache.
  • Key Sources:
    • Gallium
      • Rarely these will drop from the Cache Mimics. These keys have specific and limited functionality as they are designed to help leveling characters and give them some use for Treasure Caches.
        • Gallium Keys can only be used on treasure caches appropriate to the players level range. See below for tier levels.
        • Gallium keys will not work on any Tier one a player is level 91.
        • These keys will only roll on the consumable, armor, weapon, or card table.
    • Bronze
      • Quests(retroactive awarding possible for characters that already completed the quests)
        • First Class Job Changes 
        • Second Class Class Job Changes 
        • Transcendent Quest
        • Sign Quest
        • Nameless Island Quest
      • MVPs (MVP Reward) - MVP Rewarded Keys can be traded!
Spoiler
  • Silver
    • Classic Community Events. Also perhaps rarely from dungeon bosses or other high end, rare encounters.
  • Gold
    • Item Mall

 

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  • Tier 1 Treasure Cache (Level 1 to 33)
    • ​The Tier 1 Treasure Cache is designed with low end levels in mind. The armor, weapons, and cards are best utilized by low level characters. The consumables are generally potions.
    • For higher level characters it provides a pool of Tier 1 headgear certificates, a limited pool of Forgery Tokens, a range of low end cards, and a small chance at a Blank Certificate.
  • Drop List:
Spoiler

 

  • Tier 2 Treasure Cache (Level 34 to 66)
    • ​The Tier 2 Treasure Cache is designed with mid levels in mind. The armor, weapons, and cards, are best utilized by mid level characters. The consumables offer primarily offensive items with a few support options.
    • For higher level characters it provides a pool of Tier 1 and 2 headgear certificates, a larger pool of Forgery Tokens, a range of different mid-tier cards, and an increased chance at a Blank Certificate.
  • Drop List:
Spoiler

 

 

  • Tier 3 Treasure Cache (Level 67 to 99)
    • ​The Tier 3 Treasure Cache is designed with high levels in mind. The armor, weapons, and cards, are best utilized by high level characters. The consumables offer a variety of useful endgame items.
    • It provides the full list of all headgear certificates, the largest pool of Forgery Tokens, a range of high tier cards, and the highest chance at a Blank Certificate.
  • Drop List:
Spoiler

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#2 Ozallia

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:38 PM

Headgear Certificate Forgery

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  • Takes unwanted certificates and provides forgery tokens for each one.
  • Allows the creation of a specific headgear certificate, requiring a number tokens and a blank certificate to do so.
  • This system can be accessed by using the Recyclatron for turning in certificates, or speaking to Hank for the creation of specific certificates.
    • Recyclatron and Hank's Location: Not Finalized, but will be near Franks.

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  • Forgery Tokens
    • Forgery Tokens are acquired either by recycling undesired certificates or, occasionally, directly from Treasure Caches.
      • Headgear Certificates are worth 1 Forgery Token when turned in to the Recyclatron.
    • Forgery Tokens can be traded and vended.
    • Forgery Tokens are used to create specific headgear certificates, in conjunction with a Blank Certificate. Each Headgear Certificate has a specific Token cost depending on the tier of the headgear, if the headgear has a card socket, and if the headgear provides access to skills or large benefits.
      • Certificate Costs (In addition to 1 Blank Certificate):
Spoiler

 

  • Blank Certificates
    • Blank Certificates are acquired from the Kafra Shop or, very rarely, from Treasure Caches.
    • Blank Certificates can be used along with a number of Forgery Tokens to create a specific Headgear Certificate.

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#3 Ozallia

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:44 PM

This is our current design concept for the revised Treasure Cache system and the introduction of the Headgear Certificate Forgery system. I'm interested in your feedback and opinions. 

 

Work on this system will commence between the needs of other priority projects. At this time I have no specific ETA for the project.

 

Most likely the Recyclatron and Hank will be introduced before the Treasure drops have been specifically altered. And, as always, the system is eligible to be changed.


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#4 Xellie

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:56 PM

This is a huge project to give feedback on all at once but a few things stand out

 

Items like Mailbreaker [3] are extremely rare, whereas you've put other similar gear in a higher tier in it's non-slotted form. Mailbreaker [0] exists.

Other items such as icepicks, platinum shields are currently driving pvm. 

 

Is it wise to be putting miniboss cards such as maya purple, devilling in the cards? They're common enough. Other cards such as sword guardian, cecil damon are some of the few things that people still actively hunt. 

 

Kinda feeling a bit iffy about ygg items being in the consumables. The server is kinda flooded with those items and they really unbalance WoE in ways that aren't intended. Infinite sp items are not good. 

 

Tier 2 - odin's blessing, let me tell you no character under 90 TRANS would have a chance to earn one of those let along 34-66. I don't know if the idea is to keep them relevant to their levels, but that certainly seems wrong. 

 

Tier 3 - Naga shields are currently not on classic. Is it a good idea to introduce t hem keeping in mind that reflect gears are currently bugged on Classic? 


Edited by Xellie, 07 June 2017 - 05:06 PM.

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#5 RodrigoSan

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 06:08 PM

Deviling in Tier 1  :heh:


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#6 lxst

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:14 PM

ok, i like the idea. and the addition of the cert forge. not 100% on any of the actual drop teirs. i'll make a much much more detailed post latter... but, off the cuff, the headgears are in the wrong tiers. for example.... evil marching hat, holy marching hat, and little feather hat are all end tier woe/pvm gear. where as a yggdrisill crown....ya.......lol. just the blatant example for now. quick read of the cards and theres a few in tier 2 i'd like to see limited to tier 3. raydric, venomous, now i forgot the rest lol. (i have yet to go into gear)

 

can we get the internal list of headgears that will be added so i can give more detailed and fleshed out feedback?

 

also for the headgear forge. once it is put in you should personally run a few thosand thru it. just to see if the input / output of the system is going to leave the server with a surplus of one mat a year from now. if done wrong and there isnt a balance between blanks and cert mats.... then cert mats will have low value and become more of a hindrance/unable to vend. were the blanks vendable? they should be.


Edited by lxst, 07 June 2017 - 07:26 PM.

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#7 Themes

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:22 PM

This looks cool. I'm sure people are going to go on about some work refining the drops you've got in there, the weapons/armor do need a big once over. There's some trans only items in there that probably dont really fit.

 

The one thing that stuck out to me is dividing them up into level ranges is nice, however with how fast Janeway is now you dont see people really spending too much time in those low levels (even with high rates it doesnt take people too long to get out of that 1-30 range). Would you consider doing something like 1-70, 71-99, 1-99 trans?

 

This allows you to focus the boxes on those who are getting started, helping people on the push to trans and then "end game".

 

Are there going to be different Mimic type monsters in different leveled zones dropping different level of boxes? Or are we going to get our rewards based on the level we are when opening a box. 


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#8 MrWhisp

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:07 AM

> Gold Keys award three rolls on the reward table when opening a treasure cache.

 

Previously it was 2 rolls on the whole table + 1 roll on the rare items, resulting approximately in 34% chance to get a random certificate (as far as I understand).

Now, if the chance for certificate would be kept at 3%, the chance with a gold key would be ~8.7% - was the value of the gold keys decreased so drastically by intension ?


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#9 SRamos

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 03:33 AM

Virgo Crown with slot? Is that correct? (Token list)

I don't know if you check the market but you need to do that before add the token price, don't make sense to me Camp Fire Hat cost more than bubble gum in mouth.

I don't have Develing Card, nevertheless doesn't sounds good this kind of card droped by the chests. Same for Maya Purple card.

On the card list I saw Succubus and no Incubuss, any reason?

38.Poring Card (tier 3)
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#10 Ozallia

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:39 AM

To those with itemization suggestions, thank you for the advice. I'll be going over it carefully and itemization of the caches is still very open. For this initial design the concept used was generally the earliest level an item could be used or worn. That said, I'm certainly willing to listen to suggestions for alterations to the drop tables.

 

 

> Gold Keys award three rolls on the reward table when opening a treasure cache.

 

Previously it was 2 rolls on the whole table + 1 roll on the rare items, resulting approximately in 34% chance to get a random certificate (as far as I understand).

Now, if the chance for certificate would be kept at 3%, the chance with a gold key would be ~8.7% - was the value of the gold keys decreased so drastically by intension ?

 

The reason for this is certificates have a HUGE chance to be rolled now from ALL key rolls. It's the primary focus of the system now. 


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#11 Ozallia

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:43 AM

Virgo Crown with slot? Is that correct? (Token list)

I don't know if you check the market but you need to do that before add the token price, don't make sense to me Camp Fire Hat cost more than bubble gum in mouth.

 

The token cost uses a pretty simple system right now to try and standardize the costs. It's generally based on the earliest level a hat can be worn (the higher the level requirement the higher the 'base cost'). This is further modified by two flat factors. If an item has a card slot it's token cost is increased. And if an item grants skill usage or a large number of buffs there's another flat increase.

 

I'm certainly open to suggestions on how the token costs are budgeted. But the goal is to create a system in which it's clear why an item costs the tokens it costs. Something that can be fairly applied to all certificates. Market value, while an important indicator, is difficult to design around directly.


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#12 Ozallia

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 08:47 AM

This looks cool. I'm sure people are going to go on about some work refining the drops you've got in there, the weapons/armor do need a big once over. There's some trans only items in there that probably dont really fit.

 

The one thing that stuck out to me is dividing them up into level ranges is nice, however with how fast Janeway is now you dont see people really spending too much time in those low levels (even with high rates it doesnt take people too long to get out of that 1-30 range). Would you consider doing something like 1-70, 71-99, 1-99 trans?

 

This allows you to focus the boxes on those who are getting started, helping people on the push to trans and then "end game".

 

Are there going to be different Mimic type monsters in different leveled zones dropping different level of boxes? Or are we going to get our rewards based on the level we are when opening a box. 

The first section is an interesting idea. I'll discuss it with Campitor although I'm not certain how likely it is. but I'll bring it up. Certainly, my idea here was to focus it within level ranges.

 

In regards to mimic types, yes, there are different types. Basically each tier drops off a specific mimic monster. Tier 1 mimics will be found in low level areas and will be the most common. Tier 2 will be in mid level areas and less common. Tier 3 mimics will be in high end areas or dungeons and will be somewhat rare.


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#13 Xellie

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:15 AM

The token cost uses a pretty simple system right now to try and standardize the costs. It's generally based on the earliest level a hat can be worn (the higher the level requirement the higher the 'base cost'). This is further modified by two flat factors. If an item has a card slot it's token cost is increased. And if an item grants skill usage or a large number of buffs there's another flat increase.

 

I'm certainly open to suggestions on how the token costs are budgeted. But the goal is to create a system in which it's clear why an item costs the tokens it costs. Something that can be fairly applied to all certificates. Market value, while an important indicator, is difficult to design around directly.

 

This tells me you don't understand the server mechanics - otherwise skull caps wouldn't be so cheap. They're like wizard megingjards. 


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#14 Indalecio

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 01:22 PM

I think this system looks pretty good overall. As others have mentioned, the Maya Purple and Deviling cards need to be removed from the drop lists. Maybe bump the certificates for Skull Cap, Evil Marching Hat, and Little Feather Hat up to tier 3. You should probably also take the certificate's tier into consideration when coming up with the token cost.
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#15 osueboy

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

Ok, this are my two cents, 

 

 

like some people have said, lvl 1 - 70 is made in 1 day with janeway.
 

I think you shouldnt care about market value, because market value is subjective, and market value changes with player trends, Definitely don't listen to people that have concerns about market value.

Market value changes with drop changes, if you make 2x event the market value of lets say for example Infiltrators (with spotlight) goes down. Of course every single item will have their prices adjusted by changes in drop rates. 

For example in classic server, there are i guess 2 people who has monopoly over morpheus accesories. They are gonna complain about you making everyone else able to get them, i wont because in no way im gonna pay 30m for each one i would rather buy a bunch of golden keys untill i get them. because i hate people who overprice drops. Even if it ends costing me more dollars than just selling keys to get 60m. 

Just the fact that you can get those equipments will bring prices down, which will be good. 

I think deviling should be in the last tier, and poring should not be in the last tier. 

Good Work.


 


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#16 osueboy

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:23 PM


I think the cost of the Certificates should be flat, because the certificate doesnt give you the hat, you still need to make the hats, i have 2 hat certificates there that need Dullahan eye, and other 2 that need Bone Helm. 

The real bottle neck is the creation of the hat, i spent a month making 1 black frame glasses, i had to make an alchemist create alcohol, get karvos, dextrimindexta, herbs, etc i had a lot of fun and i got the 50 black dies and 200 steels and i felt really happy when i finally made my black frame glasses, i sold them for 110m. But i dont think you should spend more items for an item that will still take so much time to actually create. 

So if you need to readjust the requirements for every hat do so, but keep the dificult and rarity in the making process, not in the gambling process.


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#17 aaadvanced

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 02:27 PM

 if u gona add deviling & maya purple plz add ghostring  too


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#18 Themes

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 09:22 PM

I dont think you should really look at market value because that's almost entirely driven by supply and demand right now. However you should look at how strong some items are, the things people are listing off right now (Skull Cap, Evil Marching Hat, Little Feather Hat) are "end game" gears and once upgraded to the appropriate levels are all some characters will need or use. These should be reflected in their cost and availability (I dont mean make these crazy rare, just that they should be treated as end game gear).

 

As the others are saying Deviling and Maya Purple Cards are Miniboss drops which should be limited and not be something you attempt to acquire via anything other than the intended methods (Monster Drops or OCAs).

 

When looking at the weapon/armor rebalances, look at the attack of the weapons, especially for the low end things, Janeway weapons are given at level 40 Io think? And all have around 100 attack IIRC with no slots obviously, but putting anything any less than that seems like it could be a huge waste of a reward to give players. The Mailbreaker stands out to me as something that's out of place and there's a few others like the trans only equipment in the low level caches. You should also look to not include any MVP drops (like the Morph accessories) as rewards, MVP loot can be tough to sell as it is right now and flooding the market with unwanted items seems like a bad idea. Actually looking at it the armor section of that 34-66 seems very off.

 

If you go the route of doing a Trans box you can look at including things like Lunakaligo or any of the New World items people still want as rewards which while available right now via the Challenge Dungeon are not really very realistic goals for players due to their drop rate and untunedness of the Challenge Dungeon.


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#19 aaadvanced

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:09 AM

 if u gona add deviling & maya purple plz add ghostring  too

 

can u plz add angeling too


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#20 RodrigoSan

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 10:07 AM

What's a Blessed Holy Robe? ( Holy Robe with Geographer card?)

 

I think Curved Sword[2], Black Leather Boots [1], Holy Robe[1], Assassin Dagger [1] and Mailbreaker [3] should be in Tier 3, because they are too strong/rare and agree with tier's ranger 1-70, 71-99, 1-99 trans.

 

Some headgear's cert tier should be change too.

 


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#21 aaadvanced

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:07 AM

if u have mailbreaker [3] plz add sword breaker [3]


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#22 Xellie

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:54 AM

What's a Blessed Holy Robe? ( Holy Robe with Geographer card?)

 

I think Curved Sword[2], Black Leather Boots [1], Holy Robe[1], Assassin Dagger [1] and Mailbreaker [3] should be in Tier 3, because they are too strong/rare and agree with tier's ranger 1-70, 71-99, 1-99 trans.

 

Some headgear's cert tier should be change too.

 

I didn't notice those ones.... the UNSLOTTED versions should be in these boxes.... those things are just so powerful and rare :(


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#23 lxst

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:19 AM

I would also like to add the i strongly disagree with having tier 1,2,and 3 hat certs from the tier 3 box...... the rng nightmare.


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#24 lxst

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:46 AM

The updated Treasure Cache system is designed to focus on level tiered equipment, headgear certificate acquisition, and useful cards and consumables.
 
Quests MORE PLS!
 
Tier 1 Treasure Cache (Level 1 to 33)(lvl 70-99 non reborn?)
as Themes said..... with janeway quests to get to 70..... who is this stuff for exactly? and remember theres 99 lvs...... followed by 99 reborn lvls. so its really lvl70-99, then 1-80 reborn, then 80-99 reborn or something.
Consumables:
30-40 Red Potions<why?
20 - 30 Yellow Potion<why?
5 - 10 Blue Potion
1 - 10 Blue Gemstone
3 - 5 Speed Potion
1 - 4 +3 Stat Food<why +3s? vip gives +3 to all stats..... no food required. this should START at +4s
Armor:if you re-do the armors to (tier one can be worn at non reborn lvl 70) thats a good start.
Weapons:as with armor the lvl tiers are needing work... also remember to look up where a piece of gear comes from before you "tier" it. ragnarok has a complex item acquisition table.
Cards:i was never one who liked the cards being in these things to begin with..... but DO NOT TIER THEM BY LVL! these things are originally .02% drop chance items..... there's three kinds of cards,,,,,, cards everyone can use(raydrik, unfrozen, phen, ect) cards that are highly sought after (sword guardian, mobster, the paper, ect) and trash / fun cards (poring, ect)
 
Deviling Card      <WTF MATE!
Nightmare Card <tier 2 or 3
Phen Card <tier 2
Porcellio Card <tier 2
1-5 Forgery Tokens
Blank Certificate
 
 
Tier 2 Treasure Cache (Level 34 to 66)(lvl 1-80 reborn?)
Drop List:
Consumables:
10 - 25 White Potion
20 - 30 Strawberry
5 Elemental Converter – Fire
5 Elemental Converter – Water
5 Elemental Converter – Earth
5 Elemental Converter – Wind
add in cursed watter for shadow endow
Cards:
i saw a lot of redundant cards...... lets not do that.
5-9 Forgery Tokens
Blank Certificate
 
 
 
Tier 3 Treasure Cache (Level 67 to 99)(80-99 reborn?)
Drop List:
Consumables:
5 Yggdrasil Berry
5 Yggdrasil Leaf
5 Yggdrasil Seed
5 Life Insurance
5 Kafra Card
2 Bubble Gum(1 he gum instead?)
add in aspersio scrolls for holy endow?
Cards:
(where is alice, executioner, ogretooth, tierfing?)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
9-12 Forgery Tokens
Blank Certificate
 
 
Headgear Certificates:ok, lets do this....... added a number after each to what tier I would put them/ we really need the complete internal list tho......
 
Chick Hat [0]2
Lunatic Hat [0]1
Takius's Blindfold [0]2
Skull Cap [1]3
Holy Marching Hat [1]3
Gentleman's Pipe [0]2
Baby Dragon Hat [1]3
Triple Poring Hat [0]3
Captain's Hat [0]2
Bubble Gum In Mouth [0]3
Sakura Coronet [1]2
Libra Crown [0]2
Musketeer Hat [0]1
Camp Fire Hat [0]1
Parade Hat [1]1
Chicken Hat [1]1
Dark Randgris Helm [1]1
Yellow Ribbon [0]1
Moonlight Flower Hat [0]1
Libra Diadem [0]1
Evil Marching Hat [1]3
Black Devil Mask [0]2
Well Chewed Pencil [0]2
Piggie Bank [0]3
Little Feather Hat [1]3
Droopy Turtle Hat [1]1
Shark Hat [0]1
Rideword Hat [1]3
Hat Of Fortune [1]2
Wandering Wolf Helm [0]1
Cat Lace Hairband [0]2
Ship Captain Hat [1]1
Black Frame Glasses [1]3
Virgo Crown [1]1
Elven Ears [1]3
Yggdrasil Crown [0]2
Gemini Crown [0]1
 
 
 
The End :no1: 

Edited by lxst, 12 June 2017 - 09:09 PM.

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#25 lxst

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 01:46 PM

the cert trader is rlly cool.

 

i am not a gear expert. so anyone's input on the actual lvl ranges implied by the gear itself, as well as tiering proposals with a knowledge of how the gear is currently obtained in mind would be greatly appreciated.

 

also a 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinion on the headgear certs, cards,  and other items may help solidify a layout proposal.


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