75 replies to this topic

[Ozallia]

Thank you those that reported the Worn Revolvers. We've fixed it in the quest but it won't be going in until Thursday.

So, due to that (And other feedback) we'll be extending the Rockridge event by 1 week. When the fix goes in you'll be able to exchange those other items you've been stockpiling.

[zerowon]

Make it 3 and add the muffler

[ttaggong]

venatuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Themes]

I beg to differ, something like 40 - 70% of the biggest problems could be (mostly) fixed with a wipe if done right and if it can pass with a majority vote.

Support from Kro is good but Classic does not need it that much if its going to be "static" for the most part. I'm aware that there were hopes that the server go further on the time line but Classic be Classic. If theres a limit to what can be changed then I think we should work with them, it might not be as advanced as what Renewal can do but maybe it doesn't need to be?

 

 

Well then again I'm not sure which specific problems you're referring to.

 

Here are things that would need to be addressed to stop Classic from turning into the exact same thing within a year or two:

• Monster spawns. Do you keep the perpetual spotlight in Juno? Drop the double minis outside Magma? Batholians? Overpopulated Sphinx 5/AL3? Weird Bio3 spawns?
• Monster drops. There are something like 50-100 drops that drop lower than Card rate. Some things drop a lot more often than they should. Do you keep the 2x card drops?
• Maptypes and various disabled things. Icewall is still disabled in a few random maps. BBs are only usable in a couple of places.
• WoE. Create a system that supports scaling numbers of players, one that can be used by 50 players and 1500. Consider the fact that castle drops are modified by the following: drop events, VIP, gum.
• Missing content. Do you leave Nidhogg its own thing with zero entry requirements? No New World?
• Janeway?
• Turnins for leveling, Dragons hurt the server quite a lot and probably should not be a thing
• Renewal items? Plenty of people would be against these.
• OCA/ACA?

This is just a few things off the top of my head that should be considered, along with a proper database that contains accurate and up to date information for monster spawns and drops.

[Kirx]

Why the unnecessary delay brothers?!

RESTART is smoothly flowing now.

[Xplay4eva]

Here are things that would need to be addressed to stop Classic from turning into the exact same thing within a year or two:

• Monster spawns. Do you keep the perpetual spotlight in Juno? Drop the double minis outside Magma? Batholians? Overpopulated Sphinx 5/AL3? Weird Bio3 spawns?
• Monster drops. There are something like 50-100 drops that drop lower than Card rate. Some things drop a lot more often than they should. Do you keep the 2x card drops?
• Maptypes and various disabled things. Icewall is still disabled in a few random maps. BBs are only usable in a couple of places.
• WoE. Create a system that supports scaling numbers of players, one that can be used by 50 players and 1500. Consider the fact that castle drops are modified by the following: drop events, VIP, gum.
• Missing content. Do you leave Nidhogg its own thing with zero entry requirements? No New World?
• Janeway?
• Turnins for leveling, Dragons hurt the server quite a lot and probably should not be a thing
• Renewal items? Plenty of people would be against these.
• OCA/ACA?

This is just a few things off the top of my head that should be considered, along with a proper database that contains accurate and up to date information for monster spawns and drops.

 

If we got the votes to go through with it then I think it should go down like this:

For the most part everything is copied over from the current Classic. (because I know a lot has already gone into getting it to where it is) From this as the starting point then I would start working my way down the list.

 

I always thought that monster spawns could use a buff in a lot of places but I'd leave it to a vote. (and how willing the GM's are to change them)

The question about drop rates is a good one. While I think the exp should go down to 1x, (for various reasons) when it comes to items and cards I cant really say. On one hand everyone likes things to be easier to get but on the other, some would say that its better for the market if the base drop rates are low. (possibly keep the qol change for shield drops but again I'd put it to a vote)

Innovations for WOE sound good but that seems like advanced planning type material. I support but I think it would depend on how complex the proposal was.

With the other topics such as Janeway, I think the best way to decide them would be through voting on each one, according to how much/ how able GM's want to change Classic.

(speaking personally for Janeway it might be ok to simply double or triple the kill counts to reflect the base exp change, so that it is still an option but hopefully not an OP one. Or maybe changing her levels and monsters)

 

To sum up the primary reason to justify a wipe and reset, I would say it is to get Classic into the Pretrans era. (which takes the trans power and gear imbalance out of the picture. Its debatable if this would help or hurt but from what I understand, it could be good) If we can manage that for Classic then I think the rest can be adjusted and voted on later.

 

I don't think there has to be a reset but it seems like one of the easiest/ most effective options.

Edited by Xplay4eva, 26 June 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[RodrigoSan]

So KvM armor and shoes, but no muffler. Good choice. The full set provides insane demi-human resist which was really rather OP back in old classic. Same goes for rings, they were too strong.

You have my vote 

[Themes]

If we got the votes to go through with it then I think it should go down like this:

For the most part everything is copied over from the current Classic. (because I know a lot has already gone into getting it to where it is) From this as the starting point then I would start working my way down the list.

 

I always thought that monster spawns could use a buff in a lot of places but I'd leave it to a vote. (and how willing the GM's are to change them)

The question about drop rates is a good one. While I think the exp should go down to 1x, (for various reasons) when it comes to items and cards I cant really say. On one hand everyone likes things to be easier to get but on the other, some would say that its better for the market if the base drop rates are low. (possibly keep the qol change for shield drops but again I'd put it to a vote)

Innovations for WOE sound good but that seems like advanced planning type material. I support but I think it would depend on how complex the proposal was.

With the other topics such as Janeway, I think the best way to decide them would be through voting on each one, according to how much/ how able GM's want to change Classic.

(speaking personally for Janeway it might be ok to simply double or triple the kill counts to reflect the base exp change, so that it is still an option but hopefully not an OP one. Or maybe changing her levels and monsters)

 

To sum up the primary reason to justify a wipe and reset, I would say it is to get Classic into the Pretrans era. (which takes the trans power and gear imbalance out of the picture. Its debatable if this would help or hurt but from what I understand, it could be good) If we can manage that for Classic then I think the rest can be adjusted and voted on later.

 

I don't think there has to be a reset but it seems like the easiest/ most effective option.

 

The whole point of fixing things that are broken is so that things wont end up the exact same in like 12-18 months. Which is what would happen if Classic was just "wiped and reset". There are things that are just plain broken and should not happen, which have lead to the server being in its current mostly undesirable state.

 

Were you here during pre-trans on Classic? It was quite average at best, many many people quit before woe was introduced and more quit because the pre-trans sieges went on for too long. It's fun for a nostalgia trip for a brief period of time, however it is not something people should have to endure for long periods of time.

 

You keep saying vote on this, vote on that. There's no chance anyone gets to vote for anything. The decision rests on the iRO staff, they are usually willing to listen to feedback, but getting them to act on it is another matter (Bio3 area spawns anyone?).

 

Despite all of this, the GMs have said that they have no plans on doing a wipe or a reset. They've shifted their focus to this re-start server and will probably be trying to get new players to start there instead of on Classic.

[Xplay4eva]

The whole point of fixing things that are broken is so that things wont end up the exact same in like 12-18 months. Which is what would happen if Classic was just "wiped and reset". There are things that are just plain broken and should not happen, which have lead to the server being in its current mostly undesirable state.

 

Were you here during pre-trans on Classic? It was quite average at best, many many people quit before woe was introduced and more quit because the pre-trans sieges went on for too long. It's fun for a nostalgia trip for a brief period of time, however it is not something people should have to endure for long periods of time.

 

You keep saying vote on this, vote on that. There's no chance anyone gets to vote for anything. The decision rests on the iRO staff, they are usually willing to listen to feedback, but getting them to act on it is another matter (Bio3 area spawns anyone?).

 

Despite all of this, the GMs have said that they have no plans on doing a wipe or a reset. They've shifted their focus to this re-start server and will probably be trying to get new players to start there instead of on Classic.

 

No way jose! I think there is some exaggeration for those bad areas way too much. Part of the reason for Classics decline was due to accelerated aging and we could even go so far to say that its current condition is normal given how old it is and choices that might have shortened its life span by accident. From a semi new player perspective, I don't see PVM being undesirable at all, its the other areas that need help. In terms of long term viability, I do agree with you that PvP and WOE could use some work done but it could be a monumental task which I believe will be much more manageable under Pretrans conditions than it would be with the current Classic.

 

I was not around for the original pre-trans Classic or pre-renewal IRO.

But if it was taking too long to kill people in those times then couldn't that be fixed by adding PvP gears?

 

Ideally I think voting is the way to go. Otherwise from what I've seen, the IRO staff seems to do well enough in making judgement calls. (then again I haven't been around as long as some players but oh well.   ) Anyway, they might not always hit all the marks but I think the staff generally does a good job.

 

I have not seen a GM state that they would never consider a wipe. If you show me a link with a source then that would be a different story I guess.

 

Maybe some players are ready to pronounce Classic dead but I disagree. While that might very well be Classics eventual destiny some day, until Camp, Ozallia or someone says Classic is over then I have no plans to grab shovels or start digging anything.

 

It would be too optimistic to try to fix all the problems and oversights but I think there are things that can still be done with what is available.

Edited by Xplay4eva, 26 June 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[Xellie]

Classic's main problem is that it lacks a stable playerbase. 

 

It's most evident in WoE when the server has 3 < 20 person guilds for a month then suddenly a 40man+ guild appears one week then vanishes for a month again.

 

Small pvm and social improvements  would work on buffing the playerbase, the rest would even itself out from there.

 

It's exactly the same logic I apply to the guild... when we're low on people, we add pvmers, the guild becomes social outside of WoE then it grows.

 

EXACTLY the same thing they should be doing to the server.  

[Myzery]

They have said many times they aren't going to wipe Classic. People like Themes and Xellie have provided thought out ways to improve the server instead of spamming mindless "lol wipe the server" propaganda.
They aren't going to wipe Classic either way, the focus will be on this new Revo server.

[Xplay4eva]

Classic's main problem is that it lacks a stable playerbase. 

 

Maybe, it might depend. If Classic can "stay alive" with a small number of players (as it has) even after terms of service launched then its possible that Classic could be ok. Perhaps not lively but still playable.

 

 

They have said many times they aren't going to wipe Classic. People like Themes and Xellie have provided thought out ways to improve the server instead of spamming mindless "lol wipe the server" propaganda.
They aren't going to wipe Classic either way, the focus will be on this new Revo server.

I think you have misunderstood my "propaganda" bro ham. Its not "LOL wipe server", its "wipe server because its the only way to fix certain problems"

 

Of course I have noticed Xellies and Themes efforts, where do you think I got the idea and basis for a (vote first and then) wipe? Surely you saw me ask Themes to show a link of the GM's stating that a wipe would never be considered?

 

Restart (or Revo) should have lots of focus on it, at no place did I say that it shouldn't.

Granted a wipe is not the greatest sounding solution so I can see why it would not seem appealing at first glance.

Edited by Xplay4eva, 26 June 2017 - 12:56 PM.

[lxst]

looking for the new headgear forge npc. patch notes say near frank. looked over in morroc. and frank is missing!!!!!! someone kidnaped frank!?!?!?!?!

EDIT: couldn't find the new npc either. walk around with maya purple on. npcs arent just hidden.

Edited by lxst, 26 June 2017 - 04:08 PM.

[VModCinnamon]

looking for the new headgear forge npc. patch notes say near frank. looked over in morroc. and frank is missing!!!!!! someone kidnaped frank!?!?!?!?!

EDIT: couldn't find the new npc either. walk around with maya purple on. npcs arent just hidden.

 

Did you check at the mentioned coordinates?

 

"...Speak to Frank in Morocc (who has moved to his own tent at 118, 93)."

[teresias]

looking for the new headgear forge npc. patch notes say near frank. looked over in morroc. and frank is missing!!!!!! someone kidnaped frank!?!?!?!?!

EDIT: couldn't find the new npc either. walk around with maya purple on. npcs arent just hidden.

I laughed at "someone kidnapped frank!"

He was just able to acquire his own tent, just a little left from the kafra. Man is getting good income, investing in morroc real estates already.

[Themes]

No way jose! I think there is some exaggeration for those bad areas way too much. Part of the reason for Classics decline was due to accelerated aging and we could even go so far to say that its current condition is normal given how old it is and choices that might have shortened its life span by accident. From a semi new player perspective, I don't see PVM being undesirable at all, its the other areas that need help. In terms of long term viability, I do agree with you that PvP and WOE could use some work done but it could be a monumental task which I believe will be much more manageable under Pretrans conditions than it would be with the current Classic.

 

I was not around for the original pre-trans Classic or pre-renewal IRO.

But if it was taking too long to kill people in those times then couldn't that be fixed by adding PvP gears?

 

Ideally I think voting is the way to go. Otherwise from what I've seen, the IRO staff seems to do well enough in making judgement calls. (then again I haven't been around as long as some players but oh well.   ) Anyway, they might not always hit all the marks but I think the staff generally does a good job.

 

I have not seen a GM state that they would never consider a wipe. If you show me a link with a source then that would be a different story I guess.

 

Maybe some players are ready to pronounce Classic dead but I disagree. While that might very well be Classics eventual destiny some day, until Camp, Ozallia or someone says Classic is over then I have no plans to grab shovels or start digging anything.

 

It would be too optimistic to try to fix all the problems and oversights but I think there are things that can still be done with what is available.

 

I dont mean to be rude, but if you werent here how do you know what the server was like early on and what caused its decline? There were a LOT of problems with Classic, some have been resolved. A lot have not.

 

PvM is incredibly busted on this server. Incredibly easy leveling methods with permanent Ice Titans and Dragons events, high rates and cash shop exp buffs. WPH trivialises PvM, without it this would be a very different server, not particularly a worse server, just a different one.

 

Voting is dumb, the community cannot be trusted to do anything.

 

Here's your link, it's a little old but their stance has not changed (much like anything else on the server amirite guys???): https://forums.warpp...14#entry2086228

 

If you truely think that Classic is not dead, stop suggesting that they do a wipe or a reset. This will not solve the issue. It will bring in a handful of server hoppers who enjoy playing the first few months of a server then they'll go away when they get bored. If they do anything, it should be improving the player experience so that people will want to stick around. There's some potential to nab players who sit down to play their new server and dont like the new mechanics.

 

Voting is dumb, the community cannot be trusted to do anything.

[Xplay4eva]

I dont mean to be rude, but if you werent here how do you know what the server was like early on and what caused its decline? 

 

From reading messages on the forum, especially ones that go into intimate detail about problems that affect Classic. 

 

 

 

Here's your link, it's a little old but their stance has not changed (much like anything else on the server amirite guys???): https://forums.warpp...14#entry2086228

 

 

To be technical, the staff in that link at that time said they would probably not do it unless they had enough ability to advertise the change. Which is not the same as stating that a wipe "would never happen".

 

I'm going to level with ya' Themes, when I mention wipe there is a lot that goes into me making such a recommendation. I gathered information or used info that was already available then examined what was going on, followed by looking at what resources are accessible and what is likely to be available in the future. Based on that info I then formed an estimate of what action I believe will produce the most desirable results. Since I saw that other people had reached a similar conclusion I then went ahead and made a suggestion that seems like it would be helpful.

 

If the idea of a wipe is not acceptable then I guess we will need to agree to disagree? As I have stated before, I don't have an issue with Classic either way. Whether it resets or does not reset.

Edited by Xplay4eva, 27 June 2017 - 03:32 AM.

[ClickyHpen]

rock ridge numbers are still terrible considering it's a temporary event. in about an hour and a half of farming (admittedly, no vip no gum cause i don't wanna spend cash) i've got... 2 coins worth of things? i know there was talk of future events but that's pretty rough. adding an extra week doesn't make this ok. normally i can manage some kind of optimism about classic but this + OMG HI RESTART IS HERE AND IT STARTS TOMORROW = you're killing me, smalls. that made it real hard to find positive things to say about people who might wanna join classic on my stream.

 

also xplay the terms of service release ended up not hurting because that was really disappointing to a lot of people who expected a real RO 2.0, so i don't think that's a valid argument there. i mean, keep preaching wipe all you want, i'm out if it happens.

 

[Themes]

 

From reading messages on the forum, especially ones that go into intimate detail about problems that affect Classic. 

 

 

 

To be technical, the staff in that link at that time said they would probably not do it unless they had enough ability to advertise the change. Which is not the same as stating that a wipe "would never happen".

 

I'm going to level with ya' Themes, when I mention wipe there is a lot that goes into me making such a recommendation. I gathered information or used info that was already available then examined what was going on, followed by looking at what resources are accessible and what is likely to be available in the future. Based on that info I then formed an estimate of what action I believe will produce the most desirable results. Since I saw that other people had reached a similar conclusion I then went ahead and made a suggestion that seems like it would be helpful.

 

If the idea of a wipe is not acceptable then I guess we will need to agree to disagree? As I have stated before, I don't have an issue with Classic either way. Whether it resets or does not reset.

 

 

There's a large number of things that went wrong/were bad that do not get discussed here. You really cannot form an accurate opinion from posts that happen here.

 

That link is just the first one I found, I'm pretty confident there is another post from Campitor in a thread in the general section I just couldnt find it fast enough. If you want to have a look be my guest.

 

Gather all the info you want. It's not going to make Classic better. You will drive off most of the people who have been here for 5 years and place your bets on retaining new players with a server that has not actually been improved in any way. The only people who have reached a similar opinion to yours are idiots, they believe that a fresh start will give them an even playing field. It will, for about a week before the turbonerds that stick around blow right past them and it's back to square one. If things were actually addressed, things could be a little different.

 

If you dont care if there's a reset or not, stop suggesting it. The GMs have said they will not be resetting Classic so if you want to waste your words do it trying to improve what we already have. The only way to get anything to happen on this server is to spam the absolute -_- out of these boards with suggestions and hopefully they will implement something.

[Xellie]

I love how positive and happy the classic community is 

[zerowon]

Spent a hour with VIP gum and chewing. Gum drop I would need 100k-300k kills to get 800 coins and am not gonna calculate the man hours I'd need for this week event. Am very happy that private servers constantly outdo you in everything and no one respects a official server I've tried constantly to be formal in my proposals but I see the writing on the wall and I will join the horde in spreading propaganda and toxicity for as long as you continue to do wrong here.

[Xplay4eva]

".."

 

"..."

 

"..."

 

"..."

 

(I actually agree with some of your individual points but I quoted everybody in my line of sight to make the speech more dramatic)

 

Guys I think you're missing the big picture. One of the best things about Classic is that we get to play IRO with Prerenewal systems. The server has survived for a long while even through the tough times. I don't know if I would say there is a Classic community, maybe I would describe it more like a loose association of tribes but the ones here do have one thing in common which is that at some point or another, we considered Classic worth spending time on over the alternatives.

 

Now I'm not going to stand by this podium and say that there have not been mistakes (   ) but I am pretty confident that it is still too early to throw in the towel. Never mind what each person wants on a 1 by 1 level but try thinking about Classic and what is in the best interest for the entire server. There are other ideas too but I'm gonna take this chance to explain why I think players on Classic should voluntarily support doing a reset. (compensation TBD, if any)

 

When Restart gets settled in, what I would like to see is a Battle royale between the servers to see which one can get the most players. (just for bragging rights. they dont really have to fight because its all Ragnarok anyway)

I dont think I am alone in wanting Classic to not be the first server to lay down right at the beginning of the battle. Even if I dont think Classic is in danger of dying, we should be able to manage better than that, right?! If we can make preparations and have Classic meet Restart on similar conditions then I know Classic can come out on top. Renewal cant do a wipe even if it wanted to because its too bulky but Classic is lean and has a smaller amount of players.

 

If Classic goes Pretrans then it can gain any players that dont want to keep going all the way to Renewal episodes but also not compete with Restart because that server is following its own path.

 

Do you have any idea how many minutes I spent attacking mushrooms on Classic? I don't regret it but I know that its never pleasant to lose progress. All of us have invested something of value into the server but to meet the opponents on equal footing, a reset is almost required. I mean theres no rule that states that people cant play on multiple servers but are you players of Classic satisfied with this server losing before the battle even gets started?

 

I dub this operation: Short term pain for long term gain.

Its not about getting players to stay if they dont want to but giving people the chance to play Classic in the first place. What happens after they get here is decided separately by a bunch of factors.

We dont have to go through with it but I have not heard of a better idea yet that would be as effective for the health of Classic.

 

(That is all I wanted to say, if you don't want to do a reset then thats fine, I wont hold it against anyone. Just please dont send goons to come find me..)

 

P.S. about current events (Rockridge) I concur that it might be good to make it more newbie friendly.

Edited by Xplay4eva, 28 June 2017 - 07:22 AM.

[Xellie]

We had a reset. It was called the start of the server.

And it's not our fault other people chose not to play. 

[Xplay4eva]

We had a reset. It was called the start of the server.

And it's not our fault other people chose not to play. 

 

Yeah but that was a reset from Renewal. If we did one from Classic, with the lessons learned then I bet there would be a lot of players.

(I couldn't predict how many would want to stick around for end game things but as far as people comparing between servers then yes I can envision people wanting to do that)

[Myzery]

They aren't going to wipe the server. Case closed, play on the new server if you're that upset.