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Economy is pretty much already ruined


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#51 Shiratara

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:50 AM

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So what, just wipe the server, lose portion of already established pop, people determined to find (x) exploit to get an advantage will continue to find (x) exploit in different places and you'll be back at step 1, with less actual players and probably more or less bots and a already dead server that has no future to begin with. I mean I guess there really isn't any simple or more logical approaches to this like, idk: remove the achievement feature or remove gift boxes tied to early level achievements since it's a character progress system rather then an "account" progress system, nah just wipe it all; we'll surely attract more players that way. I've watched this game develop over the last decade and this game has gotten easier to play and it still feels rewarding to change job classes or get that RNG drop, but.

All I see is "wah wah wah, people exploiting and here I am on my soap box and no one understands how dumb this exploit is" without an actual sense of dedication or purpose. What do you get personally if this server gets wiped, congratulations you set a bunch of people back a week. Worst case scenario is that you lose some of your current population without actually resolving any issues because you didn't go with idk, removing the whole exploit system. Best case scenario is that you maintain your nostalgic "OLDSCHOOL RO WHERE EVERYTHING IS HARD TO DO" for another meager week.

KP Coupon Codes? Finite resource, once all the coupons are depleted, oh well - that's why it was called a headstart promotion, as for the websites that distributed them - they did not do well in safeguarding against abuse, and to be honest those websites are not there to prevent abuse, it's just a news website trying to get traffic to new or old games and making revenue from ads. Not to say WP couldn't just generate more codes. In hindsight, that's on WP's end to fix, maybe they should've thought about that themselves. They certainly had their innocent hearts in the right place by trying to goad players back into this ancient game.

And by the way, I checked - you can only use one per game account and you can't spend them on WoE Boxes and transfer them to one account/character. They're account bound as soon as they're purchased. Congratz, you have 3 different game accounts with nontransferable White and Blue WoE Potions

----

 

Alright lets sit down and assume, cause you know what happens to you and I when you assume; Player A spends their whole day farming these gift boxes and makes a net profit of "millions of zeny" and so called phat stax of Oridecon and Elunium, with nothing to use it on. Maybe they get a Santa Poring Card too, congratz; they can go hunt shadow monsters now with their crap NPC gear.

Alright, now Player B, plays the game normally, getting equipment, cards, and all the usual items normally. Sure, Player A has millions of zeny, but what are they gonna spend it on? Player B is at the mercy of RNG to drop something good, and then they have to figure out whether they need it for their character or not - and if they don't they have to create some arbitrary number amount as to how much they should sell it for and hope that's what Player A will pay.

And to be honest, I'm a casual player that played P2P iRO Loki before Transcendent and 3rd Classes, even way before Renewal Update. Yes, I played this game back when I had to pay for a monthly subscription. This game was a lot harder back then, and the only game RO had to compete with was, what - Runescape? World of Warcraft? Ultimate Online? Are you gonna get off your high horse and actually propose a more viable solution rather then just, I don't know, slowly demeaning and mocking those who are attempting to even remotely communicate with you by saying that a wipe is essentially the only thing we have worth giving a shot.

We had bots back then too you know; what no way. PEOPLE PAID MONEY for their accounts that they used for Botting, to MAKE MONEY via RMTs. Nooooo way.

---

Gonna have to agree with Tanzanito here because all you're trying to do is create a witch hunt and stir some unnecessary drama feelsbadman.jpg Like seriously though, It's a classic server with renewal mechanics and features, it isn't even oldschool RO. Oldschool 2003-era RO didn't have KP shops, we didn't have wikis and databases. I don't even know what you expected "Oh everybody is good natured and just gonna play this game like normal human beings without any malicious intent." Yeah okay. I expected this to be different as soon as I realized that this was not a true classic server, the fact that we had a KP shop in-itself is already game breaking, even if it only offered cosmetic items.


Edited by Shiratara, 03 July 2017 - 04:58 AM.

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#52 Myzery

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:54 AM

The game was definitely not harder back in the day. This iteration is much harder, people just know more now.


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#53 Latsabb

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:01 AM

You cannot trade the boxes, no. You could, however, buy Silvervine boxes, transfer them, and use those to buy WoE boxes. I addressed this earlier. It appears, however, that they have locked down Silvervine boxes. And as for using two codes, it wasnt that you could use two of the same code. One from each place, to get 500. Not sure if that has been changed now, but it had been possible when this all started.

 

And I love that you seem to think that they just sit on a bunch of zeny, and twiddle their thumbs. They buy up everything from other players. They need cards, slotted gear, clips, etc, and they can just buy up all of those items that other people are hunting for. You are aware how merchants work, correct? And they just sit on their stack of ori/elu? No, they upgrade all of their stuff to 4/5, and then switch to their free enriched. Sure, they break some gear, but who cares when you have unlimited money.

 

And if you played on early Loki, you would know that the server was going for at least a month with a dupe bug, and they wiped the hell out of Loki to fix that problem. And yes, when people paid for it.


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#54 Shiratara

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:01 AM

The game was definitely not harder back in the day. This iteration is much harder, people just know more now.

It's all opinions but imho it was definitely harder back then. Yes people know more now, and that knowledge is primarily the main difference in difficulty change. I might even argue the P2P aspect put a stranglehold on some ways of playing the game (since the game is now F2P and double clienting is existent, people can easily create their own pureforgers and chemists with little effort, having one of those alone was an expensive investment, time and money, literally money when you factor in the P2P costs).


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#55 SELain

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:07 AM

this is hilarious

am i the only one who doesn't give a fu about botters and exploiters?  :p_smile:


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#56 Demeris

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:08 AM

I knew someone was going to find a way to exploit the achievement system when I first logged on lol.

This server is already doomed to fail.
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#57 Latsabb

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:09 AM

It was most certainly easier back in the day. When I started, there was no flee penalty for extra mobs, nor vit penalty. Make a swordy, go vit, get NPC gear (helm, manteau, plate armor, boots) and look at everything hit you for 1. Want to MVP? Make a knight, and counter everything to death, because there were no mob skills back then. No magic, everything just auto attacked. Want to get leeched? Make a magic, FD and lightning bolt your way through argiopes, or make an archer and snipe in argiopes or from the Glast Heim wall. Need a priest? Go to cemetary, and heal bomb all the slow mobs. Sit on the cross to regen SP. Congrats, you are leveling with almost no effort.


this is hilarious

am i the only one who doesn't give a fu about botters and exploiters?  :p_smile:

 

No, there are apparently plenty of others with questionable morals around, dont worry.


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#58 SettlerofCatan

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:09 AM

I agree it was harder back in the day. no dual clienting, no self buffs, no cash shop, etc...

 

Although i loved the flee tanking, when mobs wouldn't decrease flee rate, so you had agi priests running around. 

 

 

 

For those that complain about this server. here's a solution, since its clearly not making you happy. Stop playing. Solves all your griping and complaining issues. 


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#59 Latsabb

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:11 AM

You could still dual client. It just wasnt allowed.


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#60 Shiratara

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:16 AM

You cannot trade the boxes, no. You could, however, buy Silvervine boxes, transfer them, and use those to buy WoE boxes. I addressed this earlier. It appears, however, that they have locked down Silvervine boxes. And as for using two codes, it wasnt that you could use two of the same code. One from each place, to get 500. Not sure if that has been changed now, but it had been possible when this all started.

 

And I love that you seem to think that they just sit on a bunch of zeny, and twiddle their thumbs. They buy up everything from other players. They need cards, slotted gear, clips, etc, and they can just buy up all of those items that other people are hunting for. You are aware how merchants work, correct? And they just sit on their stack of ori/elu? No, they upgrade all of their stuff to 4/5, and then switch to their free enriched. Sure, they break some gear, but who cares when you have unlimited money.

 

And if you played on early Loki, you would know that the server was going for at least a month with a dupe bug, and they wiped the hell out of Loki to fix that problem. And yes, when people paid for it.

Alright, but Silvervines were bugged to begin with, probably why they shut it down for whatever reason. And right, either way the coupons and promotion codes are finite unless WP plans to pass out more codes to the two specific websites they used already for this server's Headstart Promotion.

I mean, if other players aren't actually getting the drops as fast as they want to buy them what else are they gonna do lol? MvP hunting with Mammonite? Go hunt it themselves with their millions of zeny?

Right, a month in without a KP Shop. I guess at that point what's the difference in paying money voluntarily for KP Shop items versus paying for my monthly subscription. Tomato to-mato, potato, po-tato.

-------

Dual Clienting was "Frowned Upon" per say. Not to mention being locked behind a P2P wall discouraging most players from it anyways.


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#61 Allori

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 05:51 AM

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So what, just wipe the server, lose portion of already established pop, people determined to find (x) exploit to get an advantage will continue to find (x) exploit in different places and you'll be back at step 1, with less actual players and probably more or less bots and a already dead server that has no future to begin with. I mean I guess there really isn't any simple or more logical approaches to this like, idk: remove the achievement feature or remove gift boxes tied to early level achievements since it's a character progress system rather then an "account" progress system, nah just wipe it all; we'll surely attract more players that way. I've watched this game develop over the last decade and this game has gotten easier to play and it still feels rewarding to change job classes or get that RNG drop, but.

All I see is "wah wah wah, people exploiting and here I am on my soap box and no one understands how dumb this exploit is" without an actual sense of dedication or purpose. What do you get personally if this server gets wiped, congratulations you set a bunch of people back a week. Worst case scenario is that you lose some of your current population without actually resolving any issues because you didn't go with idk, removing the whole exploit system. Best case scenario is that you maintain your nostalgic "OLDSCHOOL RO WHERE EVERYTHING IS HARD TO DO" for another meager week.

KP Coupon Codes? Finite resource, once all the coupons are depleted, oh well - that's why it was called a headstart promotion, as for the websites that distributed them - they did not do well in safeguarding against abuse, and to be honest those websites are not there to prevent abuse, it's just a news website trying to get traffic to new or old games and making revenue from ads. Not to say WP couldn't just generate more codes. In hindsight, that's on WP's end to fix, maybe they should've thought about that themselves. They certainly had their innocent hearts in the right place by trying to goad players back into this ancient game.

And by the way, I checked - you can only use one per game account and you can't spend them on WoE Boxes and transfer them to one account/character. They're account bound as soon as they're purchased. Congratz, you have 3 different game accounts with nontransferable White and Blue WoE Potions

----

 

Alright lets sit down and assume, cause you know what happens to you and I when you assume; Player A spends their whole day farming these gift boxes and makes a net profit of "millions of zeny" and so called phat stax of Oridecon and Elunium, with nothing to use it on. Maybe they get a Santa Poring Card too, congratz; they can go hunt shadow monsters now with their crap NPC gear.

Alright, now Player B, plays the game normally, getting equipment, cards, and all the usual items normally. Sure, Player A has millions of zeny, but what are they gonna spend it on? Player B is at the mercy of RNG to drop something good, and then they have to figure out whether they need it for their character or not - and if they don't they have to create some arbitrary number amount as to how much they should sell it for and hope that's what Player A will pay.

And to be honest, I'm a casual player that played P2P iRO Loki before Transcendent and 3rd Classes, even way before Renewal Update. Yes, I played this game back when I had to pay for a monthly subscription. This game was a lot harder back then, and the only game RO had to compete with was, what - Runescape? World of Warcraft? Ultimate Online? Are you gonna get off your high horse and actually propose a more viable solution rather then just, I don't know, slowly demeaning and mocking those who are attempting to even remotely communicate with you by saying that a wipe is essentially the only thing we have worth giving a shot.

We had bots back then too you know; what no way. PEOPLE PAID MONEY for their accounts that they used for Botting, to MAKE MONEY via RMTs. Nooooo way.

---

Gonna have to agree with Tanzanito here because all you're trying to do is create a witch hunt and stir some unnecessary drama feelsbadman.jpg Like seriously though, It's a classic server with renewal mechanics and features, it isn't even oldschool RO. Oldschool 2003-era RO didn't have KP shops, we didn't have wikis and databases. I don't even know what you expected "Oh everybody is good natured and just gonna play this game like normal human beings without any malicious intent." Yeah okay. I expected this to be different as soon as I realized that this was not a true classic server, the fact that we had a KP shop in-itself is already game breaking, even if it only offered cosmetic items.

 

Do you wanna marry me?  :p_love:


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#62 MalakGalthana

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:13 AM

To further illustrate my point, i just ran this again for 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes, I was able to do 8 runs, for 16 Gift Boxes. Screenshot below of my inventory showing the haul. (I have consumables as well, but nothing valuable)

Spoiler


So, we have this following:

Pencil case: 248
Topaz: 3720
Garnet:3720
2 carat diamond: 15500
Witherless Rose: 34100
Darkgreen Dyestuffs: 4960
Crystal mirror: 9300
Osiris doll: 8680
White dyestuffs: 4960
Gold: 124000

Total value for 20 mins: 209,188 zeny

The gold offsets that quite a bit, but even without it, I would have averaged over 300k in an hour.


Brb I'm gonna go test this for a few hours today. Don't you worry, I'll get to the bottom of it!

FOR SCIENCE!
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#63 Myzery

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:14 AM

Asking for a server wipe is selfish and just not a reasonable solution. Just delaying the rewards would fix it, but anyone denying that it's being botted to great effect is lying to themselves.


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#64 Myzery

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:15 AM

Brb I'm gonna go test this for a few hours today. Don't you worry, I'll get to the bottom of it!

FOR SCIENCE!

 

Idk if you actually tried it, but sometimes you will make less than 20k in 30 minutes. It can go extreme in either direction. Getting 4-5 gold in 10 minutes is pretty nice though.


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#65 Demeris

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:23 AM

Idk if you actually tried it, but sometimes you will make less than 20k in 30 minutes. It can go extreme in either direction. Getting 4-5 gold in 10 minutes is pretty nice though.


Time doesn't matter when ur botting
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#66 ElenaGilbert

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:27 AM

rip, reminds me of the usrc bug when some1 generated a trillion zeny =D


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#67 Margarethahp

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:27 AM

this is hilarious

am i the only one who doesn't give a fu about botters and exploiters?  :p_smile:

t.botter exploiter


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#68 Latsabb

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:29 AM

It is likely true that you can get a bad string. But the average is what is going to matter, and the bulk of the items in the box are worth at least 4-5k. Like, 90% of them. Even if you only averaged 5k per box (which you wouldnt, as it is much higher) that is 10k per ~2.5 minutes, which is 240k an hour.


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#69 Myzery

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:32 AM

Time doesn't matter when ur botting

 

Obviously, but I doubt Reborn is going to bot.


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#70 Latsabb

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:36 AM

Asking for a server wipe is selfish and just not a reasonable solution. Just delaying the rewards would fix it, but anyone denying that it's being botted to great effect is lying to themselves.

 

It would be really easy to fix. Replace the Gift Boxes for the first two achievement levels. Hell, put OBBs there, they are not anywhere near as good as a Gift Box for zeny generation. And then make it take 24 hours to delete a character.

 

As far as a wipe, I never suggested as such, but they should put some things into consideration due to this, if they arent going to wipe. Find those doing the largest volumes, and strip them. Wipe all KP items in circulation, and refund all WPE to KP conversions. Some of that damage is already done, but at least this would cut it off, and not hurt any legit paying customers.


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#71 Myzery

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:38 AM

Yeah, I definitely agree to punishing people that extensively abused it and the free KP. Should be easy to tell to be honest.


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#72 ChakriGuard

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:42 AM

Awww -_-! I just purchased one month VIP. Time to quit so fast ... damn lol
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#73 Darkeshi

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:49 AM

Awww -_-! I just purchased one month VIP. Time to quit so fast ... damn lol

 

u're not alone there, damm me and my nostalgia impulse


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#74 Campitor

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 07:12 AM

We will clean up the abuse once were in the office. We have logs of every character that gets an achievement, every account that uses a key, and where those items go.


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#75 Myzery

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 07:15 AM

We will clean up the abuse once were in the office. We have logs of every character that gets an achievement, every account that uses a key, and where those items go.

 

Good to hear, Campitor. I mean it.


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