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Missed memo: Defense xeons


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#1 Kishandra

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Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:43 PM

Anyone care to explain why I'm seeing multiple sets of seamless polar armor on the auction hall enchanted with physical defense xeons? Guessing its for the commanders because there is no reason a prot would need a maximum possible 420 additional defense. I'd assume you would get about 1% damage reduction, maybe 2% if your defense is low. If you include a radiants defense buff and all self buffs I'd be willing to bet its not even a full % shaved off the damage received. Maybe its for pvp when your buffs get soccer kicked, but then that would mean a commander wearing it.

wouldnt % resistance xeons be better? or even 3 con xeons (630 hp)
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#2 Famous

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 12:55 AM

your assumption is right.
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#3 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:22 PM

You are probably right. When I made my S2 Seamless set several months ago, I completely filled every piece with def xeons, too. Also, total def gain can be 630, if you use IM Short def ones. Resistance is UTTERLY useless, for anything else than PvP. The HP gain from CON xeons is rather small too. Unfortunately, gone are the days when you could fill armour with those old yummy 30 or 40 HP xeons... In S2 I always fill ALL armour with as much def as possible (best to use are RH scales, then old IM xeons, 15/15 S1 ones, then S2 IM ones).
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#4 Alexandar

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 09:53 PM

The most stupid things that i`ve ever seen . The class doesn`t matter . Defence in the armors is a piece of-_- :lol:
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#5 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 23 December 2010 - 10:39 PM

Each one with their own beliefs and play style I suppose...

Obviously my success and experience means nil for others, really quite happy about it. So defence is such a pathetic load of bullcrap. Yup, and why not. Like being Commander with 5k HPs and miserable def, but HEY YEY 60% crits and 70% res!!! Good luck, if that would make one happy. Just, please, no moaning when dead in two hits... :lol:
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#6 Sasuke21

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Posted 07 January 2011 - 04:24 AM

i tottaly agree with ninghi def helps a lot..i have 1k short def on defi and when a sin trys rape me if im lucky i might survive, also helps alot in pve ,grind...js...bosses 1k def at least helps damn much
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#7 tally

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 08:29 PM

The most stupid things that i`ve ever seen . The class doesn`t matter . Defence in the armors is a piece of-_- :D


Apart from ANY AoE class soloing.

Difference between Vamp-AoE grind on domi with 150ish def, and with 400ish is huge.
Look at the defence formula - the biggest difference will be at the lower numbers... 200 def to a prot is nothing, a fraction of a %.... 200 def to a caster can be 25% reduction.

Worth much more than a couple hundred HP or some extra attack.

Edited by tally, 08 January 2011 - 08:30 PM.

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#8 Alexandar

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 11:51 PM

Apart from ANY AoE class soloing.

Difference between Vamp-AoE grind on domi with 150ish def, and with 400ish is huge.
Look at the defence formula - the biggest difference will be at the lower numbers... 200 def to a prot is nothing, a fraction of a %.... 200 def to a caster can be 25% reduction.

Worth much more than a couple hundred HP or some extra attack.

i still can`t get that formula :D explain pls
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#9 Famous

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:06 AM

i still can`t get that formula :D explain pls


there is a topic somewhere about, about 700 def is 50% reduction but 1400 def wont be 100% ofc, it goes up more slowely the higher you get.

anyways i feel like you were ignorant about this untill now because you thought you know better but since so many people told you otherwise you wanna actually pay attention and see where you went wrong.

any amount of def untill 1k is good addition to caster without a doubt since it's very good value for money
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#10 Alexandar

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 06:36 AM

there is a topic somewhere about, about 700 def is 50% reduction but 1400 def wont be 100% ofc, it goes up more slowely the higher you get.

anyways i feel like you were ignorant about this untill now because you thought you know better but since so many people told you otherwise you wanna actually pay attention and see where you went wrong.

any amount of def untill 1k is good addition to caster without a doubt since it's very good value for money

damn you`re right :D . But anyway i`ll miss that :D with the def
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#11 HastyPudding

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 07:29 AM

2700 is the maximum defense, right? What about Protectors, who can easily achieve maximum defense, how much damage reduction would 2700 be?
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#12 tally

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 08:21 AM

2700 ~ 3000 DEF is about 80% reduction. However that is for auto-attack hits.

I'm fairly certain skill hits (from bosses and maybe PvP) work in a different way, and benefit from more defence than this 3k.
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#13 HastyPudding

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:05 PM

2700 ~ 3000 DEF is about 80% reduction. However that is for auto-attack hits.

I'm fairly certain skill hits (from bosses and maybe PvP) work in a different way, and benefit from more defence than this 3k.


So, in other words, not much use in PvP, but explains why Protectors are arguably the best tanks in PvE, right?
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#14 tally

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 05:34 PM

In PvP, there's not much point getting more than 3k. Maybe 3500 in case of Def Down debuffs.

Prots are best tanks because the only other choices are commies and druids.

Commies don't have the party def buff and shield skills. Druids... to be as good all-round, need an AoE taunt, and shorter cooldown on the existing one.

Edited by tally, 09 January 2011 - 05:35 PM.

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#15 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:38 PM

I have been writing and arguing about defence for several months. I have given accounts of personal experience, other facts, calculations based on the formula, you name it. Yet, there is still, and it seems forever it will be, some kind of "debate".

Again, in a few words: THE MORE, THE MERRIER. Yes, I am talking about DEFENCE too. OK? For people who think otherwise, fine, hands up, be my guests to believe otherwise, thank you. :D
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#16 Dess

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 04:38 PM

Resistance is UTTERLY useless, for anything else than PvP.


Sory, but ill have to say a biiig no for this. Sure for aoe JS grind resistance is pointles, but what about raids and ST??
LW attacks with Fire, Biskra watter,Robo elec, etc etc
If you can take less dmg from bossses the healing its a lot easyer and theres a lot less chances tank would die.I still havent build mine, but i think resistances are important to a protector too.
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#17 Ninnghizhidda

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Posted 20 January 2011 - 08:54 PM

Agreed, now things have changed with ST. This is the only area that mobs use nasty elemental attacks, so yes good resistance has become important there, especially for melee classes. Bosses are another case, usually you could do raids without relying too much on resistance. M<aybe for LW, but still not a big issue if done the kiting way. JS bosses... again little worry until fairly recently. Biskra doesnt matter at all, Whirlpool always hits 2000-2050 and Geyser 1700, have tested this even with almost max water resistance.

But yes, I will have to agree that lately, more emphasis on resistance can be a good thing. Finally, Protectors have the luxury to experiment more with resistance, Commanders not really (except maybe a nicely upgraded TB Infinite resistance thingie).
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