178 replies to this topic

[Exvee]

Wyndor thinks small. Try bigger picture.

 Bots promote Real Money Trade.
 They RMT to addicted/rich players. 
 WP misses out on the donations from addicted/rich players=we all lose.
 Its sad that people are already seling $5USD>1mil zeny on this server.
 WP is losing a profits from these bots. Shutting them down will increase revenue. 

 

 

They don't lose profits on these bot viasco, visit renewal thread and see how people can burn $1000 just for refining ore cash shops... I already said in another bot topic, even if someone make $100k profit via RMT Warp Portal won't get really concerned when they get $50k profit... Local servers publishers are struggling harder with smaller business, so they are in necessity to fight bots...

Edited by Exvee, 12 July 2017 - 08:26 AM.

[EmoMidget]

I play this game for like a month and quit so i quite frankly don't care if theres bots or not tbh but i will point out why you guys are wrong.  

 

1.  Yes i agree but i mean come on this is a game from almost 2 decades ago, surely if they wanted to improve servers to not be awful the point of 3k online users causes crashes they could.  This is a matter of they don't care so why bother messing with it.

 

2.  I agree and as i said above the lack of proper leveling areas is funneling everyone in certain maps making this 10 times worse than its ever been before.

 

3.  It is a good thing.  Potions are at a fixed price.  If bots weren't around and you sold whats considered a good rare card and it only yielded enough to buy 1000 potions vs 20,000 potions its a big difference and hurts legit players leveling.  It does lower your "vending power" as you put it but the point is when you get a card the currency exists for it to sell for a reasonable price as a result of the bots vending so much junk.  People don't make their money on here vending common drops.  They make it off cards and slotted equipment, head gears n such. The only reason those items have a high value is because bots add enough currency to allow them to be that price.

 

There is no contradiction.  Both statements are indeed true.  Cards WOULD be rarer but the zeny to buy them at a higher price WOULD NOT exist without the bots adding zeny to circulation.  How rare something is doesn't matter if there isn't currency available to make it worth anything.  You mention thara frog cards n such.  For the 100th time there wouldn't be zeny in circulation to buy them at these "high prices" if bots were not adding the zeny.  As i said before potions, fly wings n such are at a fixed price.  So when bots introduce zeny and allow a rare drop like that to be worth more its a good thing.  As for newbs and strawberries.  Do you think if bots werent running around adding that zeny to the economy people could afford to buy them at a high price?  Of course not they would worth even less and the newbies would be able to buy even less potions n such when they sold the strawberries for zeny.

 

4.  I am not pleased by people getting ahead as a result of running a program i am simply not gonna complain about it and not realize that a "rare item" i get after HOURS of playing wouldn't be worth enough to fund white pots for more than 20minutes without these bots. Let's be honest about a "level playing field" on ragnarok online though.  This game is an RNG fest.  You could go kill mobs for 20 seconds and get a card and that same card could take me 12 hours to farm.  They also sell stuff via real life money that effects game play.  There is no such thing as a level playing field on here.  

 

So yes i think the trade off of a few heavily botted areas cards being worth a little less is worth it to allow everything in the game to actually be worth something.

 

I am not condoning botting, i am simply pointing out why it exists and why the GMs allow it.

 

You keep talking about zeny not being in circulation and without bots we wont be getting the millions in to the market. But why do you even need things to be worth in millions?! Why exactly do you need a card to be worth a higher price? It's not like just 1 or 2 items are abnormally over/underpriced. When the zeny circulation in server is small overall "every" item's price will ofcourse be smaller.And also over time the zeny in circulation will always be on the rise as people play more and more and farm more and more. Even now it is possible to make millions in 1-2 hours just by farming and npc trash and vending rares.

 

You say that bots would vend their items and buy your better cards and gear... are you serious? the whole point of people/company botting is to make most out of the least.They never buy player sold stuff.They have no use for cards and gears. All they need is the NPC sold stuff and in a large scale befitting a few hundred characters to bot. They either horde the loots and vend them at once using merchs or sell them to NPC. The are NOT adding zeny to the circulation.

 

And even going by your argument if anything I believe bots actually decrease the zeny in circulation cause they are always the sellers and not the buyers. They don't buy anything from other people to keep the circulation going on. The only things they buy are npc pots/wings etc.In the end this is what happens

 

1)Bot buys pots from npc

2)farms

3)Sells the rare cards and loot at cheaper rates

4)Gets zeny from the selling(Which is actually taking zeny out of circulation) They are nothing but zeny sinks.

5)Buys more pots and stuff from npc and the rest is saved up for future RMT

6)Open up zeny selling websites etc

7)Repeat

 

And if its not one of those company bots it'll prolly look like this

"Why bother buying a rare thing/card if i can just bot and farm it myself.It's not like I need to put any effort when I'm botting anyway"

"Hmm, getting a priest is such a pain. Let me bot an aco make it a priest and later use a heal salve bot"

"Levelling takes so much effort but im feeling lazy. Ill just bot it out"

 

And what does ignoring this lead to?

1)Bots being a Zeny sink for normal players

2)Rare stuff becoming insanely cheap.

3)Server becoming laggy

4)Future with tonnes of novices shouting "S>zeny at xxx usd at %*!&@%$^!%*.com" and spamming in everytown

5)Players who will RMT and get to the top in an unjust fashion by buying from the bot companies

6)Players who join along the bot companies to level their own characters,farm etc

7)people being annoyed with all mobs being hit by bots in crowded maps quitting

8)Server being branded "Infested with bots". Even now when we sometimes hit 4k populations with so many bots in many people arent even bothering to join saying there are like 3k bots in that 4k,etc assuming such values which may or may not be true.And when exaggerated negatively no one will join.

 

And the only probable issue with them being kicked out is no influx of mass required materials for stuff like brewing,arrow crafting,forging,cooking etc.But compared to the cons mentioned above suggesting an alternative fix like the way "The investment system" in renewal works. This is how you obtains thousands of materials without bots to sell.

 

if you are worried about the insane pot prices and how to survive without bots selling white herbs,poison spores etc for future. You should rather be suggesteing they add those in the investment system so there is a good influx of it into the market.There are other ways of handling this and you need to brainstorm on it if thats the problem.

 

Allowing bots to run the economy and to depend on them is definetly not the solution. And also having billions in circulation is not necessary. What RO needs is a player driven economy like what it states in the intro,not a machine driven economy. Billions in circulation will make it that much harder for new players to join and get into the pace of the growing economy. Which would especially cause a lot of trouble for a progression server like us because if the server goes well people will be joining at various stages like 2-2 introduction,rebirth etc and them catching up to us will be as painful as it is currently in Chaos which is the main reason people quit.

 

Imagine a new player joining and he struggles a while to get that 300zeny for the merchant quest in the training grounds only to be broken hearted to see that every item in vend is in millions(billions if in chaos).It's just asking them to give up saying they can't catch up.When a guy struggles to make 1 mill and he realises that people are going around carrying bows with a 80billion thantos card(rough guess) or a 90 billion fenrir card in a headgear(chaos example again) what do you expect him to feel? encouragement and motivation to reach that level? Who you kidding mate.

 

The way it is right now is the best if you ask me. where a drop at 0.02% is actually being sold at a reasonable price that is worthy of the drop rate. As the game gets older and older the zeny in circulation will rise steadily and the prices will rise while those that are more easily obtained will fall as more supply is there.Just increasing the supply 1000x fold using bots will reduce both the zeny in circulation and value of the items being farmed.

 

And I hear few people saying how bots inconvenience us normal players?

Ignoring the insane amount of lag already existing where it takes like a 3-10 secs delay just to move to the target you clicked on only to find a bot coming and attacking it while you where goign through hell and when you try to target another another bot taking it. A BM that should be getting you 2-3 lvls per bm gets u barely 1 due to the insane number of bots stealing ur mobs. unlike when its players who are also putting their efforts to level bots dont. And its frustarting AF seeing that something you plan to hit being taken by something that isn't even leveling.In maps like Geos, You search half the map to find on Geo only to find a bot come and take it before u can hit it.

Edited by EmoMidget, 12 July 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[SuperScar]

The thing that I dont get the most is a LOT of people came to this server for "nostalgia" and have the original ragnarok experience and then complain about the game being a grindfest... what?

[Tanzanito]

The thing that I dont get the most is a LOT of people came to this server for "nostalgia" and have the original ragnarok experience and then complain about the game being infested by bots... what?

FTFY

RO was always infested by bots.

[SuperScar]

FTFY

RO was always infested by bots.

 

On iRO? oh yeah maybe, but I used to play in servers with actual bot protection and its crazy but it worked 

 

We should try to have a server on iRO that is not infested with bots for once! wouldnt it be fun to see what happens?

[Allori]

 

I know how to make money and I'm pretty sure I got way more than you.

 

I wasn't talking to you, and i couldn't care less about how money you have.

 

 

Because these games are modern games adapted to today's audience while RO is a game developed in 2001 that never bothered to adapt. While in GW2 you can start participating the fights on your first day, ro requires weeks of mindless grind in dull and monotonous maps.

 

 

 

 

 I know, but we still need to farm for ascended/legendary materials there. BTW, you must be on max lvl to start farming.

 

 

 

Edited by Allori, 12 July 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Tanzanito]

I wasn't talking to you, and i couldn't care less about how money you have.



I know, but we still need to farm for ascended/legendary materials there. BTW, you must be on max lvl to start farming.

That's the point, you don't NEED to farm those to participate on the endgame and have fun. While in RO you'd like AT LEAST a Marc card if you're playing a support class.

[Vargfula]

Thai and pRO also got HUGE playerbases while RO is dead here. So yea, I don't think you should compare...

 

Please shut up already. They have bigger playerbase guess why ? "They have anti-cheat system and publisher cares about botting! ?"

 

How can't you just understand, it only takes like a few brain cells to understand.

 

 

I'm at the point where I'm thankful when someone KS me and picks my items and spam emotes to me in progress.

I'm like "Okay, at least they are not botting."

Isn't it just sad ?

 

How hard to hire a few people ?

Let em go in to popular maps, analyze players. It's to easy to figure out if someone is botting.

If they see suspicious activity, they can talk, tp. etc. suspect and if there is no respond at all, block his/her account and send a mail.

I don't care if player has an excuse like "I was at kitchen my cat jumped on keyboard and pressed random buttons, I couldn't answer the GM, and yea my cat also killed 7 raydrics, 2 AKs, and looted 'em all".. 

 

Do not let the bot users destroy the server already. It's pathetic to give 'em that much space, come on.

[Tanzanito]

How hard to hire a few people ?

You lost me here.

[Dukeares]

FTFY

RO was always infested by bots.

That not True... There were a time there were no bot...back during the CD age..you have to use cd to play.LIMAO..LOL... Economy was thriving. People were giving oc and Dc serving at prontera and Even competting in offerings OC services in islude..(that where i made my first  million )

Now that was nostagial...

 

bots = no human interaction.

 

Real player : The only thing that made the game lively.

 

But i have to admit there not much human interaction left in the game unless you are in a guild... or playing Restart... (if u not in elite woe guilds den u r foreveralone ... )

[337130505031000570]

If the game or whatsoever economy needs a bot to survive, why don't just legalize it then? It almost seems to me that the game system itself is crooked then if it requires a cheat to survive. If bot was meant to add an economy into the system to allow people to spend a millionz of zeny in the first weeks of server instead of a hundreds, is that really how it should be? Please stop standardizing bots like how we standardize bad/unfair things in the world. To me bot seems like a way to fast forward the economy in the server, and if this was the intention of the staff by letting the bots out, why bother making a new revo-classic server? If they don't want people to take things slowly, let the economy grow naturally without the bot economy's 'fast ticket'. For people who don't have time to play, yeah you guys gotta realize that the people who spend more time in the game being productive are the one who're gonna be better off. It shows their hardwork which may equal to time in this game. I dont think I can go on blabbering anymore before I sound stupid or anything. But I hope you guys get my point. It's either completely eliminate bots and let the economy takes its steady slow growth, or actually allow bots for the good sakes of the game by enforcing a certain rules or limitation on bots that would allow non-botters to be in a fair system where they may not be disadvantaged with the use of bots.

[GalenDresden]

You lost me here.

Hiring a few more people won't stop the problem (assuming it is as bad as we think). I do want to support this project as it is interesting but there has to be a way to stop the bots or discourage them altogether from thinking coming is a good idea...

As Players...well we do have an overage of Battle Priests hopefully armed with Warp Portals to Prontera. We could literally dump them into Prontera or some other city.

[3565150713142656837]

Someone made this suggestion when the subject of Bots came up.

 

"If Restart ever adds in another server...and heck they can add it into this server as well. Put in some sort of MVP monster that sits near the exit portal of the novice training grounds. Most bot programs only walk in a straight line to get where they need to go...players will be smart and walk around. Sure...some, and the keyword is some, bots might get through...but not enough unless people are willing to actually play in order to get past the MVP."

 

I have no idea how well this would actually work. Or if it would work at all. For all we know this will just frustrate real players and then we have more bots and less people...which we kind of do anyway so...

 

 

[VimaDias]

On iRO? oh yeah maybe, but I used to play in servers with actual bot protection and its crazy but it worked

We should try to have a server on iRO that is not infested with bots for once! wouldnt it be fun to see what happens?

Thank you, Saria, for your good sense :')

I was reading seas of nonsense here. Soon we'll be seeing people defending assassination with some sort of malthusian theory

[Wyndor]

Thank you, Saria, for your good sense :')

I was reading seas of nonsense here. Soon we'll be seeing people defending assassination with some sort of malthusian theory

Yes and i can promise you that none of these servers started out this way.  If you want to deploy anti botting stuff after the economy is setup sure go for it, but it is indeed needed at this point if you want anything to be worth selling.

Not sure rushing an economy on a server is better than creating one using the necessary time... 

Tell that to the new people that would loot cards, headger n such and its worth nothing.  If its worth nothing they can't afford pots and they won't be doing much leveling.

 

You are forgetting hyper inflation.

 

More items are introduced into the game at a rapid pace more than would naturally exist compared to the legit players driving prices down (cards and gear included)

 

More zenny is introduced into the game at a rapid pace than would naturally exist compared to the legit players driving its value down. 

 

You get a paradox, the market splits.  90% of the items are worth nothing, only the end game items are worth anything.

 

Yes you can sell the card for 10mill BUT do you really expect to buy the items you want for zenny considering its value is now zero.

 

The fact is you would have to grind even harder to even afford the inflated end game items if they ever get sold for zenny.  God help the newer players that wouldn't be able to even sell anything because of over saturation, and would most likely leave with every map camped by bots.

Oh shutup with your exaggeration.  This hasn't happened on the other realms that have been up n running for near a decade.  Sitting here saying the sky will fall when it never has to try to make a point is beyond stupid.

 

Wyndor thinks small. Try bigger picture.

 Bots promote Real Money Trade.
 They RMT to addicted/rich players. 
 WP misses out on the donations from addicted/rich players=we all lose.
 Its sad that people are already seling $5USD>1mil zeny on this server.
 WP is losing a profits from these bots. Shutting them down will increase revenue. 

 

Shutting them down would ensure new players would start playing, make 0 zeny and not have enough to buy pots/fly wings n such that are REQUIRED to level and would quit.  How hard is this to understand.  The price of the items that are flat out required to level even at a low lvl are a FIXED STATIC price.

 

If BOTs are so important for the economy as these pro-botting (wich is illegal, btw) are claiming, so why games like GW2 have healthy economies without BOT? Please, stop claiming this game as hard and learn how to make zeny, you would be surprised u.u

I can't speak for guild wars but i can speak for wow.  As you level on wow questing provides you with actual income.  Enough that is meaningful to buy things even without ever having to use the auction house while leveling.  If wow followed ragnaroks formula you would get max level and not even have a lvl 40 ground mount without getting a lucky drop.  Also the fact that you're assuming there isn't bots on these games is cute.  Both guild wars and wow have bots harvesting all sorts of materials 24/7.

 

Because these games are modern games adapted to today's audience while RO is a game developed in 2001 that never bothered to adapt. While in GW2 you can start participating the fights on your first day, ro requires weeks of mindless grind in dull and monotonous maps.


I know how to make money and I'm pretty sure I got way more than you. And no I'm not a botter.

^ they don't seem to grasp the fact that RO's ancient system is why this sort of thing is required.

 

You keep talking about zeny not being in circulation and without bots we wont be getting the millions in to the market. But why do you even need things to be worth in millions?! Why exactly do you need a card to be worth a higher price? It's not like just 1 or 2 items are abnormally over/underpriced. When the zeny circulation in server is small overall "every" item's price will ofcourse be smaller.And also over time the zeny in circulation will always be on the rise as people play more and more and farm more and more. Even now it is possible to make millions in 1-2 hours just by farming and npc trash and vending rares.

 

You say that bots would vend their items and buy your better cards and gear... are you serious? the whole point of people/company botting is to make most out of the least.They never buy player sold stuff.They have no use for cards and gears. All they need is the NPC sold stuff and in a large scale befitting a few hundred characters to bot. They either horde the loots and vend them at once using merchs or sell them to NPC. The are NOT adding zeny to the circulation.

 

And even going by your argument if anything I believe bots actually decrease the zeny in circulation cause they are always the sellers and not the buyers. They don't buy anything from other people to keep the circulation going on. The only things they buy are npc pots/wings etc.In the end this is what happens

 

1)Bot buys pots from npc

2)farms

3)Sells the rare cards and loot at cheaper rates

4)Gets zeny from the selling(Which is actually taking zeny out of circulation) They are nothing but zeny sinks.

5)Buys more pots and stuff from npc and the rest is saved up for future RMT

6)Open up zeny selling websites etc

7)Repeat

 

And if its not one of those company bots it'll prolly look like this

"Why bother buying a rare thing/card if i can just bot and farm it myself.It's not like I need to put any effort when I'm botting anyway"

"Hmm, getting a priest is such a pain. Let me bot an aco make it a priest and later use a heal salve bot"

"Levelling takes so much effort but im feeling lazy. Ill just bot it out"

 

And what does ignoring this lead to?

1)Bots being a Zeny sink for normal players

2)Rare stuff becoming insanely cheap.

3)Server becoming laggy

4)Future with tonnes of novices shouting "S>zeny at xxx usd at %*!&@%$^!%*.com" and spamming in everytown

5)Players who will RMT and get to the top in an unjust fashion by buying from the bot companies

6)Players who join along the bot companies to level their own characters,farm etc

7)people being annoyed with all mobs being hit by bots in crowded maps quitting

8)Server being branded "Infested with bots". Even now when we sometimes hit 4k populations with so many bots in many people arent even bothering to join saying there are like 3k bots in that 4k,etc assuming such values which may or may not be true.And when exaggerated negatively no one will join.

 

And the only probable issue with them being kicked out is no influx of mass required materials for stuff like brewing,arrow crafting,forging,cooking etc.But compared to the cons mentioned above suggesting an alternative fix like the way "The investment system" in renewal works. This is how you obtains thousands of materials without bots to sell.

 

if you are worried about the insane pot prices and how to survive without bots selling white herbs,poison spores etc for future. You should rather be suggesteing they add those in the investment system so there is a good influx of it into the market.There are other ways of handling this and you need to brainstorm on it if thats the problem.

 

Allowing bots to run the economy and to depend on them is definetly not the solution. And also having billions in circulation is not necessary. What RO needs is a player driven economy like what it states in the intro,not a machine driven economy. Billions in circulation will make it that much harder for new players to join and get into the pace of the growing economy. Which would especially cause a lot of trouble for a progression server like us because if the server goes well people will be joining at various stages like 2-2 introduction,rebirth etc and them catching up to us will be as painful as it is currently in Chaos which is the main reason people quit.

 

Imagine a new player joining and he struggles a while to get that 300zeny for the merchant quest in the training grounds only to be broken hearted to see that every item in vend is in millions(billions if in chaos).It's just asking them to give up saying they can't catch up.When a guy struggles to make 1 mill and he realises that people are going around carrying bows with a 80billion thantos card(rough guess) or a 90 billion fenrir card in a headgear(chaos example again) what do you expect him to feel? encouragement and motivation to reach that level? Who you kidding mate.

 

The way it is right now is the best if you ask me. where a drop at 0.02% is actually being sold at a reasonable price that is worthy of the drop rate. As the game gets older and older the zeny in circulation will rise steadily and the prices will rise while those that are more easily obtained will fall as more supply is there.Just increasing the supply 1000x fold using bots will reduce both the zeny in circulation and value of the items being farmed.

 

And I hear few people saying how bots inconvenience us normal players?

Ignoring the insane amount of lag already existing where it takes like a 3-10 secs delay just to move to the target you clicked on only to find a bot coming and attacking it while you where goign through hell and when you try to target another another bot taking it. A BM that should be getting you 2-3 lvls per bm gets u barely 1 due to the insane number of bots stealing ur mobs. unlike when its players who are also putting their efforts to level bots dont. And its frustarting AF seeing that something you plan to hit being taken by something that isn't even leveling.In maps like Geos, You search half the map to find on Geo only to find a bot come and take it before u can hit it.

1.  Yes they buy pots from npcs which is a FRACTION of what the bot actually produces.  They bot in areas relatively easy for the bot, they aren't trying to power level them character while botting. 

2.  Ok?

3/4.  Actually the zeny is handed to the persons main account and/or used to buy gear/cards from other players which is then put directly into circulation.

5.  Refer to 1.

6.  I don't agree with zeny selling but you aren't exactly disproving my point by saying this.  The zeny is still put into circulation......

 

None of that has anything to do with why i said bots are required to start an economy.

 

1.  Already explained otherwise repeatedly.

2.  Really?  Why are thara frog cards 12.5mil on chaos and not even a fraction of that on this server if mean old bots running devalue everything?

3.  It's always been laggy but sure.

4.  Who cares?

5.  People will do this regardless, its a matter of if they do it through this or through the warp portal site.

6.  With how much experience/time it takes to level at the higher levels its really not a shock some people turn to this.

7/8.  Ragnarok has had this for years and people still play it.  The problem is only this bad because of the limited leveling areas provided by this server.

 

I am not concerned with white pot prices because bots won't be looting n selling them.  I am concerned that they are a fixed price on a vendor and you minstrels want to make it so there is no way to produce zeny and force rare cards/items to be worth virtually nothing since everyone will be poor.  You talk about billions being in the economy.  When there is billions in the economy cards are WORTH MORE.  When that little newb gets a card and its worth 500k now it actually allows them to be supplied with pots, buy some weapon/armor from a vendor and so on.  If there wasn't currency in the economy they would be lucky to get enough to buy a new weapon out of it.  Which is exactly where this server would be without the bots.  How you think this is more appealing for a new player is beyond me.

 

Lol 300 zeny for merchant quest really?  If everything is worth this amount when he gets a card he will then have zeny as well.  You mention MVP cards, lets be realistic here.  The only people getting MVP cards are no lifers, people who buy zeny with cash or people running bot farms.  New players shouldn't strive for this to begin with since it most likely won't happen.  I remember back when i played on chaos the loser leader of maelstrom bought two mejs for 2k each and his poor gf was crying they couldn't pay their bills or eat for 2 months.  Is this what you want new players to aim for on here?  How about letting them actually make some zeny when something rare drops, not feel broke when they go buy potions, weapons/armor and actually enjoy the game?

 

None of you point out any valid reasons as to why bots aren't needed for the economy and its quite sad the idiotic logic that is used by you guys to justify your crying. You point out OMGGG hyper inflation the sky is falling mvp cards will be worth 5k zeny OMG even though there are still bot infested servers running for a decade and this still isn't the case there.  Let's face the facts, you guys don't like someone being ahead of you.  You want to feel special when you type your credit card in on warpportal in an attempt to pay to win.  You don't like the fact that someone else is getting more for free.  You don't like the fact that other people can be the same level as you without parking on this game 12 hours a day.  This is all based around special snow flake syndrome.  The bots in your minds take away from your achievements on here and you hate it.  Which i don't care you can be that way all you want but atleast be honest and quit making up nonsense saying crap will happen that hasn't even happened on chaos or loki yet lol.

Edited by Wyndor, 12 July 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[VimaDias]

I don't think so, I did make almost 1 million zeny in a day with little effort and legally... Most of it selling what you'd call "junk".

[shinz97]

Why do ppl still standardize bots..

Edited by shinz97, 12 July 2017 - 12:26 PM.

[337130505031000570]

@Wyndor if the newbies cant sell a thing coz the economy is going slow and therefore can't buy pots and train, cant they always find a party? I still think we dont need to rush the economy by using bots

Hence also if you say that we dont like bots coz it takes away our achievement after grinding in games for 12 hours, and after that seeing someone the same level as us coz they bot, I think any rational person ofc will be mad hell they dont deserve that. Its not about we dont like being left behind, its about being fair. Would you be happy if someone cheated their way out of you?

[EmoMidget]

Yes and i can promise you that none of these servers started out this way.  If you want to deploy anti botting stuff after the economy is setup sure go for it, but it is indeed needed at this point if you want anything to be worth selling.

Tell that to the new people that would loot cards, headger n such and its worth nothing.  If its worth nothing they can't afford pots and they won't be doing much leveling.

 

Oh shutup with your exaggeration.  This hasn't happened on the other realms that have been up n running for near a decade.  Sitting here saying the sky will fall when it never has to try to make a point is beyond stupid.

 

Shutting them down would ensure new players would start playing, make 0 zeny and not have enough to buy pots/fly wings n such that are REQUIRED to level and would quit.  How hard is this to understand.  The price of the items that are flat out required to level even at a low lvl are a FIXED STATIC price.

 

I can't speak for guild wars but i can speak for wow.  As you level on wow questing provides you with actual income.  Enough that is meaningful to buy things even without ever having to use the auction house while leveling.  If wow followed ragnaroks formula you would get max level and not even have a lvl 40 ground mount without getting a lucky drop.  Also the fact that you're assuming there isn't bots on these games is cute.  Both guild wars and wow have bots harvesting all sorts of materials 24/7.

 

^ they don't seem to grasp the fact that RO's ancient system is why this sort of thing is required.

 

1.  Yes they buy pots from npcs which is a FRACTION of what the bot actually produces.  They bot in areas relatively easy for the bot, they aren't trying to power level them character while botting. 

2.  Ok?

3/4.  Actually the zeny is handed to the persons main account and/or used to buy gear/cards from other players which is then put directly into circulation.

5.  Refer to 1.

6.  I don't agree with zeny selling but you aren't exactly disproving my point by saying this.  The zeny is still put into circulation......

 

None of that has anything to do with why i said bots are required to start an economy.

 

1.  Already explained otherwise repeatedly.

2.  Really?  Why are thara frog cards 12.5mil on chaos and not even a fraction of that on this server if mean old bots running devalue everything?

3.  It's always been laggy but sure.

4.  Who cares?

5.  People will do this regardless, its a matter of if they do it through this or through the warp portal site.

6.  With how much experience/time it takes to level at the higher levels its really not a shock some people turn to this.

7/8.  Ragnarok has had this for years and people still play it.  The problem is only this bad because of the limited leveling areas provided by this server.

 

I am not concerned with white pot prices because bots won't be looting n selling them.  I am concerned that they are a fixed price on a vendor and you minstrels want to make it so there is no way to produce zeny and force rare cards/items to be worth virtually nothing since everyone will be poor.  You talk about billions being in the economy.  When there is billions in the economy cards are WORTH MORE.  When that little newb gets a card and its worth 500k now it actually allows them to be supplied with pots, buy some weapon/armor from a vendor and so on.  If there wasn't currency in the economy they would be lucky to get enough to buy a new weapon out of it.  Which is exactly where this server would be without the bots.  How you think this is more appealing for a new player is beyond me.

 

Lol 300 zeny for merchant quest really?  If everything is worth this amount when he gets a card he will then have zeny as well.  You mention MVP cards, lets be realistic here.  The only people getting MVP cards are no lifers, people who buy zeny with cash or people running bot farms.  New players shouldn't strive for this to begin with since it most likely won't happen.  I remember back when i played on chaos the loser leader of maelstrom bought two mejs for 2k each and his poor gf was crying they couldn't pay their bills or eat for 2 months.  Is this what you want new players to aim for on here?  How about letting them actually make some zeny when something rare drops, not feel broke when they go buy potions, weapons/armor and actually enjoy the game?

 

None of you point out any valid reasons as to why bots aren't needed for the economy and its quite sad the idiotic logic that is used by you guys to justify your crying. You point out OMGGG hyper inflation the sky is falling mvp cards will be worth 5k zeny OMG even though there are still bot infested servers running for a decade and this still isn't the case there.  Let's face the facts, you guys don't like someone being ahead of you.  You want to feel special when you type your credit card in on warpportal in an attempt to pay to win.  You don't like the fact that someone else is getting more for free.  You don't like the fact that other people can be the same level as you without parking on this game 12 hours a day.  This is all based around special snow flake syndrome.  The bots in your minds take away from your achievements on here and you hate it.  Which i don't care you can be that way all you want but atleast be honest and quit making up nonsense saying crap will happen that hasn't even happened on chaos or loki yet lol.

 

...... What a load of crap. Mate the very fact that you are comparing a 14 year old server that has futher more been merged with many other servers with one that is not even 14 days old proves that you aren't eligible to debate on this issue(Especially when you consider something that is heavily time dependent like economy). Furthermore you keep referring to chaos as if it was an Ideal perfect role model server...... I don't even know where to start on this.

Edited by EmoMidget, 12 July 2017 - 12:48 PM.

[level1skeleton]

Someone made this suggestion when the subject of Bots came up.

 

"If Restart ever adds in another server...and heck they can add it into this server as well. Put in some sort of MVP monster that sits near the exit portal of the novice training grounds. Most bot programs only walk in a straight line to get where they need to go...players will be smart and walk around. Sure...some, and the keyword is some, bots might get through...but not enough unless people are willing to actually play in order to get past the MVP."

 

I have no idea how well this would actually work. Or if it would work at all. For all we know this will just frustrate real players and then we have more bots and less people...which we kind of do anyway so...

 

The people who make and provide botting programs are clever, and no single solution will stop them. In every game that fights against botters, it's an arm's race to invent new ways of bot detection while also avoiding inconveniencing the legitimate players. In the mean time, the opposing programmers invent ways to get around it. Every game and every server has bots, some more or less than others. That does not mean this isn't a problem, nor does that mean nothing should be done, but the scope of the problem and the cost and effort needed for the solution is grander than some may think. 

 

The botting hasn't stopped me from finding neat people to party and play with, so I'm not as angry or disadvantaged as many who are complaining. However, there is no easy solution here, and I suspect the people who are more disadvantaged by this won't be happy with the usual platitudes companies release when they don't yet have a solution: "We're sorry for the inconvenience," "we are looking into addressing the problem," etc.

[Shanedude]

You dont need zeny to buy potions, WOE KP Box is here. Anyone buying potions with zeny is doing it wrong.

RMT'ers circumvent WP. 

Cheap thara/hydra card/marc/phen etc are NOT worth the prrice of bots. It is not an excuse to have them here.

The RMT players are buying zeny from bots for dirt cheap scooping up botted resources and are waiting to re-sell it when WoE is announced. Its a vicious cycle and RMT/bot players benefit while regulars get a FEW items they needed for cheaper.

Big picture, not small picture.


 

[kunli85]

While I don't have much of a leg to stand on in regards to bot activity as I stopped playing shortly after the thief quest, there's a ring of truth to everything that everyone has brought up. I started back in Beta, and have played this game on and off again throughout the years even giving Renewal a try. 

 

1. It's true, this game will always have bots as long as it's worth botting in the first place.

 

2. With no Anti-Cheat protection in place, even assuming that with Anti-Cheating there will be less bots, we can assume the following conclusion: They, more or less, are condoning botting. Are there even any plans in their road-map to put this in place?

 

3. Given our restrictions in the past, unfortunately most of these decisions are outside of Warp portal's control.

 

4. To be frank, I don't believe Warp portal has the trained staff to tackle the bot problem, so you guys are just going to have to deal with it. Even if there were someone capable I don't think Gravity would allow them to make changes to the core code. So there's only two options, beat them or join them.

 

I'd suggest joining them by using the botting software itself to thwart the bots in the first place. Place a single Warpportal controlled GM bot on each map. Set up a LUA script to randomly PM each individual on each map, and if no response within X amount of time, Temporarily ban said account. I know what you're thinking, they will simply build the bot to randomly respond...to which we could then deploy a script to do a simple math problem. But then the bot will program them to do the math problem. It's a never ending circle, but at least there's some kind of attempt. There's many alternative ways to reduce botting, but unless they actually use and understand the botting software themselves and are allow to actually modify the games code it's a pipe dream to ever think bots won't be rampant especially since it's a new server. So give it a year or two and then the server will be dead enough for the botters to lose interests in it.

Edited by kunli85, 12 July 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[Hissis]

I already lost 350k due to the bots(yeah,my lucky card drop 1 in a life time is getting cheaper everyday).

 

Thanks 

 

If they keep ignoring the bot issue(Ban is not enough),this server is going to be dead in less than 1 year.

[Krispin2]

Perhaps you will judge me for comparing this with ... that, but here I go.

 

From what I’ve experienced bots have always been the biggest factor in making most of the new players, at least new ones at official RO, left it behind after a few days and go to their shady RO lives in someone’s personal computer/server.

The thing is that once they notice most of the “players” in low level zones are bots, they all feel disappointed, they cannot believe it. They question “How can it be possible, for the OFFICIAL SERVER to be plagued with bots?” always come into the conversation of why they disliked the experience of the official service, “I mean is the official dude, they should be the best, most secure and professional of them all right?” they say with disbelief.

 

Now reporting them is no solution, just a waste of our playing time. Bots won’t feel 1, 2, 3 or hundreds of banned accounts. Banning IP, ranges could affect player.

 

Back to me, RO REStart announces and I hope into the hype train, and was really hyped for the first days, last experience was iRO Valkyrie first free official server (Classic back then), right now I want to try Renewal, a few days have passed and then… bots. Hey at least is not like in Valkyrie, where bots could crash clients spamming the chat.

Preventing bots at 100% rate is not a feasible solution for any server but not really trying anything neither is it.

 

The truth I would feel ashamed to invite old RO friends to play REstart, all because of the bots. I mean how could I explain to them that “it is ok, bots have always been here”, when they should not?

 

As someone that has not played RO in years and only just now heard of this server a few days ago, I agree with this 100%.

The very first thing I read about it is that the economy is already permanently ruined and the game is swarming with bots.
I'm highly interested in this new hybrid server in which the content is starting from square one, but the situation is a huge turn off to me and I hesitate to invite my friends to it.

I\m someone with huge nostalgia for the game so I wanna at least try for a bit anyway, but I can tell you the bots alone are a massive repellent to new blood.

 

I have a job and don't have the endless amount of free time I used to have to deal with a broken economy, the bots and the lag they bring with them.

If there was a pure pay to play server with this game mode I honestly would probably use it and invite my friends to it, but I can't in good conscious invite them to this.

[Wyndor]

As someone that has not played RO in years and only just now heard of this server a few days ago, I agree with this 100%.

The very first thing I read about it is that the economy is already permanently ruined and the game is swarming with bots.
I'm highly interested in this new hybrid server in which the content is starting from square one, but the situation is a huge turn off to me and I hesitate to invite my friends to it.

I\m someone with huge nostalgia for the game so I wanna at least try for a bit anyway, but I can tell you the bots alone are a massive repellent to new blood.

 

I have a job and don't have the endless amount of free time I used to have to deal with a broken economy, the bots and the lag they bring with them.

If there was a pure pay to play server with this game mode I honestly would probably use it and invite my friends to it, but I can't in good conscious invite them to this.

So you would prefer the cards you come across being worth not enough to buy a new weapon from the vendor?  How do you possibly think having virtually no zeny in the economy would make your time more valuable lol?  Some of you really can't see the big picture.

You dont need zeny to buy potions, WOE KP Box is here. Anyone buying potions with zeny is doing it wrong.

RMT'ers circumvent WP. 

Cheap thara/hydra card/marc/phen etc are NOT worth the prrice of bots. It is not an excuse to have them here.

The RMT players are buying zeny from bots for dirt cheap scooping up botted resources and are waiting to re-sell it when WoE is announced. Its a vicious cycle and RMT/bot players benefit while regulars get a FEW items they needed for cheaper.

Big picture, not small picture.


 

Lol so the solution is force people to pay IRL money for potions lol?

 

...... What a load of crap. Mate the very fact that you are comparing a 14 year old server that has futher more been merged with many other servers with one that is not even 14 days old proves that you aren't eligible to debate on this issue(Especially when you consider something that is heavily time dependent like economy). Furthermore you keep referring to chaos as if it was an Ideal perfect role model server...... I don't even know where to start on this.

My point of comparing is to prove there is no hyper inflation that makes items worth nothing.  All the other realms are also heavily botted and their cards are still worth alot of zeny.  You idiots keep nit picking single lines to pretend you're clever.  Notice you didn't disprove a single point i made you just chose a part and made a dumb comment back.

 

@Wyndor if the newbies cant sell a thing coz the economy is going slow and therefore can't buy pots and train, cant they always find a party? I still think we dont need to rush the economy by using bots

Hence also if you say that we dont like bots coz it takes away our achievement after grinding in games for 12 hours, and after that seeing someone the same level as us coz they bot, I think any rational person ofc will be mad hell they dont deserve that. Its not about we dont like being left behind, its about being fair. Would you be happy if someone cheated their way out of you?

In a perfect world sure they can party.  Maybe they don't want to party and want to just relax or maybe they don't have friends?  Will a new person even know to find a party?  There are plenty of reasons this isn't a solution. I am aware of why you don't like bots.  I simply pointed out the obvious reason because people want to hide it behind nonsense like hyper inflation n crap instead of just saying the truth.  I dont want to be rude saying this but achievements on this game is a bit of a stretch.  It's simply a grind fest that whoever has more time to grind gets ahead.  You should be use to this in IRL there is plenty of people that are ahead of you with much less work required and accept it.  This isn't exactly a skill based game.  It's ohh look at me i parked long enough to have +9s and a mvp card watch me solo a map people that didn't devote a year of played time can't do.  If people are really that concerned with getting a pat on the back for that i dunno what to tell them.  Play some actually competitive game if you want to care about such things.

Edited by Wyndor, 12 July 2017 - 02:51 PM.