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Thoughts to Revive WoE


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#1 ChaoticRK

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:03 PM

Please have a time to read.


Can we please costumize the guild system by making 24 as the max capacity for guilds? Remove alliances too so there will be more competition. Haven't woe'd lately so I'm not very informed of the status of it.

I haven't had quite a memory of what is woe back then. Never had, only during the introduction of trans class I have woe'd and that's my first and last. That is enjoyable though. Well, the competition was in great numbers way back. So many guilds trying to claim a castle.

Today, what matters is numbers and gears and classes. This turned into a no-brainer,brute and lame fight.

This might not solve everything but this will open up a better chance for new guilds.


Spoiler


Edited by VModCinnamon, 11 July 2017 - 11:47 PM.
Edited title to be more appropriate.

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#2 narublue

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:18 PM

People aren't skipping WoE because of guild numbers/capacity and alliances. People aren't WoEing because they don't enjoy PvP, if they did they'd WoE. When I ask my friends who don't WoE their reasoning isn't "oh that guild has over 24 people woeing I'm scared" It's really pretty simple, if they enjoyed killing other players they'd play, regardless of gear or other guild sizes. Plus not to mention guilds that have over 24 players that want to WoE would have to split up without the ability to alliance, that sounds pretty dumb to me. Now if anything would get these PvMers to WoE it would likely have to be incentives like gathering points by getting kills and cashing out those points for gear/supplies after WoE finishes, but that can be easily exploited so it would have to be heavily monitored. 


Edited by narublue, 11 July 2017 - 11:26 PM.

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#3 diikhlaskan

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 11:24 PM

i dont do woe 1 and 2. only TE

but I agree, alliance iz stupid XD

i disagree with 24 ppl tho, we have 40++ member, if max member = 24. and we can't ally, we will kill each other lol :D


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#4 yamasakai90

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:06 AM

But 24 for a PvM guild is TOO LITTLE! :p_swt:

 

It doesn't really matter, I've seen a party of *cough* 6 ppl wipe out 30+ players.


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#5 Amongluttony

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:11 AM

You can limit guild members to 9 players and still dont solve anything, the thing is simple if you ask me:

 

WoE scene:

Cheaters

1 kill shot / Immunity to all

GMs? feedback? what is that?

 


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#6 lorenz1375

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 12:13 AM

Wow the highly belittled PVM players before are now possible valuable resources


###
Give us more incentives, at least do something about the supply it might lure in some
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#7 Icarus05

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:32 AM

1. even you limit the guild capacity, WOE is still dead at chaos because of my overall reason (And bruh, No matter how many are there in your guild and you don't have any concrete plans and coordination, you will still get wipe out by 12 man guild who have concrete plans against your guild. Promise, I see this a lot of times)

 

2.Same reason

 

Overall reason: WOE died in Chaos because of Cheating, and botting in WOE.Chaos WOE Players knows this issue right?


Edited by Icarus05, 12 July 2017 - 01:32 AM.

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#8 Cylon

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:03 AM

You can limit guild members to 9 players and still dont solve anything, the thing is simple if you ask me:

WoE scene:

Cheaters
1 kill shot / Immunity to all
GMs? feedback? what is that?


^This
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#9 bgmds

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:26 AM

Limiting the size of the guild can't really help woe now. Some cheater shadow chaser in that well-known cheater guild(everyone knows whom) back to last Sat can Mask at least 2 person per second using cheats(it was auto-aim too). Some of their cheats even allow them to mask someone else 10 cells away.


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#10 Silvianna

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:40 AM

I think as PvM player, its really easy to get WoE equipment, 

if you can make bunch ocp gears to +14

 

there is no reason for you not able to make +14 KvM

after all, getting 2000 kvm badge is pretty close to nothing nowadays

can get from turn in trash GFSS from FW run

 

the rest just need people to teach about pvp stuff, eventually we will understand as pvm players

 

 

but for what reason? its not convincing enough

unless the castle treasure drop, few of them including 
Rare Costumes, cute ones   :p_love:

 

-----------------

about cheater ?

not just in WoE/PvP environment, in PvM as well.

 


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#11 bgmds

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:56 AM

about cheater ?

not just in WoE/PvP environment, in PvM as well.

cheaters can't really affect your game experience in pvm since everyone solo or with friends for the instance. For cheaters in woe, it will just annoys you when you think you have good enough gears, skill and people. Cheaters can just let everyone getting Masked ignorance to be unable to use skill for 20 seconds. It is just stupid to realize you got masked when you didn't even see any shadow chaser around you.


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#12 Silvianna

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:29 AM

cheaters can't really affect your game experience in pvm since everyone solo or with friends for the instance. For cheaters in woe, it will just annoys you when you think you have good enough gears, skill and people. Cheaters can just let everyone getting Masked ignorance to be unable to use skill for 20 seconds. It is just stupid to realize you got masked when you didn't even see any shadow chaser around you.

 

Unless they always know where the mvp spawn location is

my old friend said Duped mirror, but idk maybe,..~

not just that lol

 

When im talking about PvM, i dont always mean it as Instances 

instance is little part of PvM itself.


Edited by Silvianna, 12 July 2017 - 03:29 AM.

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#13 bgmds

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:32 AM

Unless they always know where the mvp spawn location is

my old friend said Duped mirror, but idk maybe,..~

not just that lol

 

When im talking about PvM, i dont always mean it as Instances 

instance is little part of PvM itself.

Yeah, but I know not many people use mirror for mvp now, let alone the dupe one.


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#14 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:33 AM

honestly you wont find this issue outside of HoA mvps, satan morroc, and some rare times valk.
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#15 Silvianna

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 03:43 AM

weird enough, when i had this discussion with my friend yesterday,

he seemed interested and asked me if i could track the character name

i showed him the ropd 

he said this person in the same guild that use cheat in WoE

 

i dont know, im PvM player 

i have no knowledge on woe/pvp stuff but i do believe

cheat exists in two worlds, which pvm and pvp

 

if they able to eradicate them, not just in woe/pvp

but pvm as well, that would be awesome  

 

 


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#16 PervySageMarty

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 06:53 AM

Problem is the obscurity of what is a cheat and what isnt. The fine white line gets thinner and thinner each time something is brought to the table.

To be honest, i feel sorry that our CM's and GM's need to even handle these things, Myzery gave a fine example: reported a player for apparent full on cheating with many videos and screenshots but player was not banned because said player testified to their innocence. The issue then escalates into the notorious "favouritism" speech about how Myzery is favoured or something and that the players testimony is being scrutinized.
You've been through it, I've been through it, we all have.
Rather than say its only ever the GM and CM's fault, its as much as everyone elses fault, except me of course.
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#17 ashS1

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:00 AM

Ban entry of all classes in WoE except Novice.. No gears allowed except hat, cotton shirt, a mace and boots (all non-slot and non-upgraded gears allowed only.)

Let's all bludgeon each other to death and see who survives..

Edited by ashS1, 12 July 2017 - 07:01 AM.

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#18 lorenz1375

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:16 AM

Ban entry of all classes in WoE except Novice.. No gears allowed except hat, cotton shirt, a mace and boots (all non-slot and non-upgraded gears allowed only.)

Let's all bludgeon each other to death and see who survives..


And theyd still have no delay first aid
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#19 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:25 AM

WoE is dead, seems GM's don't care, end of story basically. Back and forth of tickets to try and get them to even pay attention to blatant evidence of a single ban is pointless. It's like trying to teach toddlers to do calculus before they even know what a number is. Most of the ticket responses are from GM's that really know nothing about the game. Report someone for auto-target masq's, they won't know what a shadow chaser or masq's are.


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#20 MrBrainFreeze

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 07:58 AM

I don't think any of their staff besides Catnipor understands RO, they don't pay their employees to know the game they provide service for.  


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#21 Ethanasael

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:39 AM

You can limit guild members to 9 players and still dont solve anything, the thing is simple if you ask me:

 

WoE scene:

Cheaters

1 kill shot / Immunity to all

GMs? feedback? what is that?

Pure reality. Haters gonna hate, idgaf


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#22 wmfk

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 08:54 AM

Those damn cheaters.
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#23 Pred

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 09:55 AM

WoE is dead, seems GM's don't care, end of story basically. Back and forth of tickets to try and get them to even pay attention to blatant evidence of a single ban is pointless. It's like trying to teach toddlers to do calculus before they even know what a number is. Most of the ticket responses are from GM's that really know nothing about the game. Report someone for auto-target masq's, they won't know what a shadow chaser or masq's are.

 

The problem with "auto-masq" in particular is that some people can't tell the difference between auto-masq and instant-masq.  Because you don't see the failed attempts to masq, you have no idea if they just successfully masq'd on the first try or if it was automatic.  Besides if Chasers using auto-masq really are your problem, all you need is tanky/flanky Genetics with Howl to give that Masq a cast time, and that stops them dead in their tracks.  If you complain to the GMs about as many things as you complain about publicly though, you may also be running into a bit of "the boy who cried wolf", which may be contributing to why you have trouble getting their attention.  Not everything that you lose to is a "cheat" or an "exploit".  Sometimes you just need to accept the loss and find a way to adapt.

 

---

 

Anyways, I really don't think that cheating is the real reason people are quitting, every guild has cheaters but for very obvious reasons nobody will never admit to it, and will always either deny it until their dying breath, or ignore it.  Blaming cheaters is just using a scapegoat for the harsh reality of the real reason people quit WoE.

 

It's just not all that fun anymore.  For pretty much exaclty what narublue said.  I'd just add two things:

  1. There's been a power creep in gear where we keep getting "even more OP" gear that increases the power of the powerful by a whole lot more than it increases the power of the newer, or more casual, players.  Things like the Mob Scarf, and the Unfrozen Shadow set make things easier for everyone, sure, but literally everyone gets that benefits, including the people you're trying to protect yourself from.  You have to be awfully naive to think that they're not going to exploit every single advantage that new "even more OP" gear gives them over you in a far more efficient way than you ever could.
  2. You have guild leaders not wanting to play anymore (for legitimate reasons, I'm sure), and it is incredibly hard for new guild leaders to start from nothing.  People in a guild are loyal to the guild leader, so when that leader leaves, each member has to make a decision on whether they like WoE enough to keep going and start fresh with a new guild...  The answer is usually "no" unless someone close to them starts a new guild, and that almost never happens (outside of Vigilantes however long ago they started).

 

The only way WoE on Chaos will be revived is two-fold.

 

First and foremost, kRO needs to come out with some new gear/skills/tweaks that will make some of the more OP things that make WoE not fun go away without also unfairly boosting the power of the already OP players.  For example:

  • Make it so a Sage's Magic Rod skill "absorbs" Stasis and other ground/self targed magic if the Sage would be hit by it.
  • Make a new RG quest skill that absorbs ground/self targeted AoE damage (to stop SD from wiping a guild) 
  • Make a new piece of gear that negates splash damage originating from the wearer (to stop TCbait targets from wiping their own guild).

 

Second, once WoE is less frustrating and there's more an emphasis on cunning/preparation, reduce/remove the barrier of entry for new guilds to form.

The big thing is supplies.  It is incredibly difficult to fully fund a WoE guild unless you're already an established WoE guild.  Make new slims/blues/speeds that still weigh the same (to make your character's weight still sort of important) only work on WoE maps that can be gotten for free from an NPC.  This way guild leaders don't really have to supply anything, maybe some of the food/buff items, but that's about it.  This also has a side benefit of clearing all the guild brewers from the ranked potter list, freeing up the market for others who want to brew for profit.

 

Realistically, neither of those will happen.  The best we can really do is hope that Re:Start doesn't end up making the same mistakes again.


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#24 ChaoticRK

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 09:59 AM

People aren't skipping WoE because of guild numbers/capacity and alliances. People aren't WoEing because they don't enjoy PvP, if they did they'd WoE. When I ask my friends who don't WoE their reasoning isn't "oh that guild has over 24 people woeing I'm scared" It's really pretty simple, if they enjoyed killing other players they'd play, regardless of gear or other guild sizes. Plus not to mention guilds that have over 24 players that want to WoE would have to split up without the ability to alliance, that sounds pretty dumb to me. Now if anything would get these PvMers to WoE it would likely have to be incentives like gathering points by getting kills and cashing out those points for gear/supplies after WoE finishes, but that can be easily exploited so it would have to be heavily monitored. 

 

I'm not saying that. The point of 24 max is to divide a big guild and build aggro by having inability to ally. You join a woe scene or not is not the main focus here. It's for the people who are interested in WOE. Inviting and getting people to WOE is a different scenario and I think something about that was ignored.

 

i dont do woe 1 and 2. only TE

but I agree, alliance iz stupid XD

i disagree with 24 ppl tho, we have 40++ member, if max member = 24. and we can't ally, we will kill each other lol :D

 

That's the point, to kill one another.

 

You can limit guild members to 9 players and still dont solve anything, the thing is simple if you ask me:

 

WoE scene:

Cheaters

1 kill shot / Immunity to all

GMs? feedback? what is that?

 

Yeah, let's not forget about cheaters.

Back then only monks can do that and still they do. BS is deadly too as well as SB. Immunity to everything is not a problem if you can OHKO them right?

Just leave the GMs/feedback for now.

 

Problem is the obscurity of what is a cheat and what isnt. The fine white line gets thinner and thinner each time something is brought to the table.

To be honest, i feel sorry that our CM's and GM's need to even handle these things, Myzery gave a fine example: reported a player for apparent full on cheating with many videos and screenshots but player was not banned because said player testified to their innocence. The issue then escalates into the notorious "favouritism" speech about how Myzery is favoured or something and that the players testimony is being scrutinized.
You've been through it, I've been through it, we all have.
Rather than say its only ever the GM and CM's fault, its as much as everyone elses fault, except me of course.

 

That's the sad truth. So, they should get/hire a qualified person that knows about the game or train them to learn the do's and dont's in the game environment of RO.

 

Ban entry of all classes in WoE except Novice.. No gears allowed except hat, cotton shirt, a mace and boots (all non-slot and non-upgraded gears allowed only.)

Let's all bludgeon each other to death and see who survives..

 

They will play dead forever for sure.

 

WoE is dead, seems GM's don't care, end of story basically. Back and forth of tickets to try and get them to even pay attention to blatant evidence of a single ban is pointless. It's like trying to teach toddlers to do calculus before they even know what a number is. Most of the ticket responses are from GM's that really know nothing about the game. Report someone for auto-target masq's, they won't know what a shadow chaser or masq's are.

 

4th response


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#25 Easly

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 10:18 AM

Stop the cheats and Woe might be revived.

The same thing happened on Ymir, guild cheated and never got banned, people quit because of this and they then freely farmed god items on the server and RMTd them after merger.
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