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Time to look into zulie draining solution?


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#26 Feuer

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:05 AM

Well when it comes to your theory about Faiths being a large source of inflation,

you're wrong.

 

Sadly, Faiths are actually helping to curb the effect of inflation.

 

See, Faiths take up vast swathes of the currency pool in the market. If they were to suddenly lose that value, that large pool of money has to go somewhere else, most likely towards things you actually don't want them to. Things that are consumable, low supply and high demand. Those naturally being Skill + Stat resets, name changes, pluto/venu etc.

 

Having said that, that doesn't mean that releasing Faiths again would increase the amount of money in the game over-all. The zulie is already there, in people pockets being saved or held onto until they find something worth spending it on.

 

The game plan for releasing faiths should be carefully conducted, should it occur.

 

Step 1: Introduce a tax system.

Step 2: Apply that tax system to all forms of trade [Vending, AH if it is implemented, Trading].

Step 3: Release the Faith items. 

Step 4: Watch as the mass number of exchanging significantly cuts away at the in-game zulie pool.

 

The more trading that occurs in a tax based deflation system, the faster it works.

 

 


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#27 Cortiz

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 02:40 AM

I realy like this discussion, keep going & don't ever stop  :p_smile:


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#28 Phreshes

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 03:19 AM

Well when it comes to your theory about Faiths being a large source of inflation,

you're wrong.

 

Sadly, Faiths are actually helping to curb the effect of inflation.

 

See, Faiths take up vast swathes of the currency pool in the market. If they were to suddenly lose that value, that large pool of money has to go somewhere else, most likely towards things you actually don't want them to. Things that are consumable, low supply and high demand. Those naturally being Skill + Stat resets, name changes, pluto/venu etc.

 

Having said that, that doesn't mean that releasing Faiths again would increase the amount of money in the game over-all. The zulie is already there, in people pockets being saved or held onto until they find something worth spending it on.

 

Oh wow, see, that's something I definitely overlooked. I completely missed the point where the mass amount of Zulie which couldn't be spend on high valued items anymore it will find its new target. I stand corrected!

 

Step 1: Introduce a tax system.

Step 2: Apply that tax system to all forms of trade [Vending, AH if it is implemented, Trading].

Step 3: Release the Faith items. 

Step 4: Watch as the mass number of exchanging significantly cuts away at the in-game zulie pool.

 

Sounds like a solid plan to me. I was also thinking, they should implement an NPC where one can spend N amount of Zulie and receives some upgrade materials for Paradigm runes. Personally, I have never touched a Paradigm rune myself, but I do notice that they are used a lot by end-game players because of their benefits. Perhaps they can use a percentage based system which calculates how many upgrade runes one should receive. I am not too sure how frequently one receives upgrade material for Paradigm runes or the quantity as well, but I was thinking of a ratio between 3-25. Then when you spend N amount of Zulie you have a higher chance of getting more materials. It can also be adapted to tiers perhaps up to 1b you will receive 3-25 materials, 100m being around 3-5 materials and 1b closer to 20-25 materials. And then from 1b upwards you enter a new tier which yields more materials according to the amount entered. Unfortunately, I talk big numbers for a low quantity of materials, but apparently there is so much Zulie in the game that it needs to be drained somehow and have fair benefits for, possibly, everyone.

 

I think not a single person or new player below lvl 160-180~ ish will touch this system because from my understanding Paradigm runes are more used by end-game players & PvPers, mainly because their wealth is not as high as an end-game player so they should not even bother about paradigm runes untill they run dungeons or pvp frequently. They can make use of the old gems (Topaz/Ruby etc) as these are very useful (also for late game) as I am still rocking with them and never felt I was outdated (PvM wise). Hopefully by the use of this system, a massive amount of Zulie will be disgarded through the NPC and the prices of the old gems will decrease / remain fair as high-level players will make more use of Paradigm runes especially with the materials they can acquire.

 

What are your thoughts on this?


Edited by Phreshes, 20 July 2017 - 03:52 AM.

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#29 Feuer

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 04:55 AM

Seems somewhat convoluted as written, but I can clearly tell where you're coming from.

 

Your goal was to specifically target end-game / high funds holding players with a system that is enticing to use, and since the function is offered through an NPC, the funds would be directly deleted.

 

I think where it get's somewhat messy [most just to read btw] is in your presentation of it. If I may

you idea was somewhat like

 

Over-all spending zulie places you in a RNG purchase pool where anywhere bteween 3-25 Paradigm materials can be earned.

Higher amounts invested increase the reward amounts and increases the reward tier.

Example:

Xmil - XXmil: Tier 1 with [x-x material range]
XXXmil to X,XXXmil: Tier 2 with [xx-xx material range]

 

X = amounts of materials to be set at a later date.

 

Something like that? 


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#30 Phreshes

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:14 AM

Seems somewhat convoluted as written, but I can clearly tell where you're coming from.

 

Your goal was to specifically target end-game / high funds holding players with a system that is enticing to use, and since the function is offered through an NPC, the funds would be directly deleted.

 

I think where it get's somewhat messy [most just to read btw] is in your presentation of it. If I may

you idea was somewhat like

 

Over-all spending zulie places you in a RNG purchase pool where anywhere bteween 3-25 Paradigm materials can be earned.

Higher amounts invested increase the reward amounts and increases the reward tier.

Example:

Xmil - XXmil: Tier 1 with [x-x material range]
XXXmil to X,XXXmil: Tier 2 with [xx-xx material range]

 

X = amounts of materials to be set at a later date.

 

Something like that? 

 

Yes! That's correct, exactly what I mean. I often have trouble reading the things I have written myself, so I can understand there could be some confusion


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#31 Feuer

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 07:36 AM

I mean, it seems effective at reducing the zulie, but over-all, wouldn't this just make the rich, more powerful? If so, is that a massive CON, or is it not a big deal, I'd like to see what you think about that idea. 


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#32 pandasoup23

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 08:06 AM

I mean, it seems effective at reducing the zulie, but over-all, wouldn't this just make the rich, more powerful? If so, is that a massive CON, or is it not a big deal, I'd like to see what you think about that idea. 

 

mm dont think this will be a big issue since no matter what, even if the said individual were to drop billions on these mats, they still gotta put in the work to farm for fragments or dg shards, etc. (also empowering is a -_-, so no matter how much materials you think you have, you may not even have enough)

 

for players that are already runed, it would allow for more testing? (maybe) and for newer players it would just be a little boost and cut some hours off the farming process (depends on the quantity of mats you get)


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#33 Phreshes

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:42 AM

I mean, it seems effective at reducing the zulie, but over-all, wouldn't this just make the rich, more powerful? If so, is that a massive CON, or is it not a big deal, I'd like to see what you think about that idea. 

 

That's a good point. Perhaps this system should also implement some sort of exchange service for the Paradigm runes material tiers. I am no expert when it comes to Paradigm runes and their materials needed to upgrade one, but I read the Wiki and it says there are multiple tiers and multiple obtainable materials. Apparently there are the Valor runes and the Honor runes both requiring different materials to upgrade a rune, and there are enhancers. However, I don't know the rarity of these materials when it comes to gathering the required materials to upgrade a rune. I haven't been able to check this myself but I believe Honor runes are superior to Valor runes, like it is with equipment as well.

 

So in order to obtain the more difficult materials (Honor materials) one needs to enter a higher amount of Zulie (automatically enters the Honor materials tier). Then again, with N amount of Zulie enters the x-xx amount tier with a dynamic value to obtain the less rare Honor materials and with a higher N amount of Zulie the person has an xX-xx amount, same goes for Valor material. This is the same what you properly defined but with the Valor tier and the Honor Tier.

 

In addition, when the player wants to obtain rare Paradigm material, whether it be for Valor or Honor for this it's the same, one has to exchange some of their common materials along with an N amount of Zulie. Meaning, to obtain either the rare Valor / Honor material, the person needs to pay N amount of Zulie + N amount of common material.

 

To sum these paragraphs up (values are purely for demonstration purposes)

 

Valor tiers

100m - 250m = enters Valor tier 1 (3-25 common materials)

251m - 500m = enters Valor tier 2 (25-50 common materials)

501m - 750m + 25 common material = enters Valor tier 3 (3-15 Rare materials)

751m - 1b + 75 common material = enters Valor tier 4 (max tier, 16-50 Rare materials)

 

Honor tiers

1b - 1.5b = enters Honor tier 1 (3-25 common materials)

1.5b - 2b = enters Honor tier 2 (25-50 common materials)

2b - 2.5b + 25 common material = enters Honor tier 3 (3-15 Rare materials)

2.5b - 3b + 75 common material = enters Honor tier 4 (max tier,16-50 Rare materials)

 

Enhancers

1b++ = 1-3 enhance stones MAX and has a N% of failing thus not receiving anything, the more money you put in (hence the ++) the lesser the chance of failure and the higher chance of obtaining 3 (max) enhance stones.

 

(please don't mind the prices, I have no idea the rarity and value of said materials)

 

This way, the rich can't just put in max cash and receive the max materials possible, they instead have to work their way up to the higher Tier materials by sacrificing / exchanging some of their common materials along with money. Yes, this is most likely in advantage to the rich, but I rather have them stronger than them to ruin the economy for the rest of us. I'm sorry I can't really think clear right now, have been working all day.


Edited by Phreshes, 20 July 2017 - 01:24 PM.

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#34 Feuer

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 07:58 AM

Well for starters, PvP runes are only better than PvE runes, when you are doing PvP related content. The runes are superior to their respective origin, excluding face runes as those are universal.

 

Aside from that, and it affecting your price suggestions, the over-all idea is still similar to your original proposal and I'm not against it being tested on Pegasus. With where the game stands now, in terms of the progression time investment, something like this could benefit more than just the economy. 

 

I'm all for it being tested along-side or immediately after the class balance session occurs, which we haven't heard anything about for many months [yet again] seemingly pushed back indefinitely. 

 

In all fairness, the odds of any proposals in this thread being either tested or implemented are slim to none just based on my observance over the last 2 years -give or take-. The discussion is nice, and productive, but talk only goes so far when we're not the ones who can pull the lever to initiate the change. 


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#35 diggic

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:30 PM

Just An idea ,but like a tax system /region on sort of eq &mats. Like if you sell low uniques in Zant or junon = 10%tax. If u sell high level uniques in junon or Zant =13%tax. So how higher the item graden =more tax (new players less affected) and if you sell/buy Scrolls or health pots it's cheaper to sell in zant.then in luna .so more shops back in low level areas .makes the game look more active= new players stay Longer?. And 24h offline shop is always a good idea?? But if u put on offline shop it adds 1or 2% extra tax

Edited by diggic, 21 July 2017 - 09:31 PM.

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#36 Feuer

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:41 PM

That's the thing though, you don't want to create an illusion of more active players, you want to TRULY have more active players. Because an illusion will be seen through at some point, and that amount of disappointment will only encourage players to leave, not to stay. 


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#37 diggic

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:05 PM

Well if they come online now. Nobody. They level up to Zant on first day maybe getbto level 26ish? Or 30. 2nd day Alone in the map,again untill lvl 40 then they give up. Make that 10 players a day. If they see all the shops they might stay 2 days Longer before they get to the Point of stopping. And those 2 days give you new players and they see those other new 1 who would normally been gone allready.and they both stay=increase of population?? Hard to explain in a non native language,sry for that, or is this a bad waybof theorie. Create the illusion that Will lead to the solution?

Edited by diggic, 21 July 2017 - 11:06 PM.

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#38 diggic

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:12 PM

Lots of players,include me.never or rarely put up shop.cause i don't waste electricety on a computer who just has to run for hours for my shop.if there is An way for a offline shop,lots of players Will put up a shop and continu playing. There for more shops,more items available,so the value of items Will drop and if u put on a tax system it Will drain allot of zuly out. (Cause the higher amount of shops)

Edited by diggic, 21 July 2017 - 11:14 PM.

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#39 Buffiies

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 12:22 AM

Lots of players,include me.never or rarely put up shop.cause i don't waste electricety on a computer who just has to run for hours for my shop.if there is An way for a offline shop,lots of players Will put up a shop and continu playing. There for more shops,more items available,so the value of items Will drop and if u put on a tax system it Will drain allot of zuly out. (Cause the higher amount of shops)

 

This suggestion has already been given, hopefulllllly it will come one day.


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#40 Phreshes

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 05:21 AM

In all fairness, the odds of any proposals in this thread being either tested or implemented are slim to none just based on my observance over the last 2 years -give or take-. The discussion is nice, and productive, but talk only goes so far when we're not the ones who can pull the lever to initiate the change. 

 

That's the unfortunate truth, I have witnessed a lot of great proposals as well over the years but none have been given the proper attention they deserve.


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#41 AyaR

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:31 AM

I just miss the days where IM was 250m for 100IM pts (it's like 3b-6b for 100 IM points depending on how much the person selling wants)

 

and when 10b went a long ways now you need 50b+++ to gear/passive/refine/gem/rune/king/ royal set(nearly 40b for that) 

 

the good old days are not behind us if something is done soon  :lv:  :lv:


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#42 henrycao

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 06:24 PM

How did the prices sky rocket over the years? Most of the time players aren't even picking Zulie drops because they aren't worth anything. So how does it happen to be that over the years what use to be 10b is now 1t?


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#43 Feuer

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 09:59 PM

People who bot with a pick-up client, and there's been several zulie generating exploits in the past. 


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#44 iMatt

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 02:23 AM

majority was created during a duperwave in 2013 which lead to a massive inflation of zulies, since then the zulie prices have never recovered since the duping was that common...


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#45 Snuwfer

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 01:27 PM

I'd love to see another server again, a clean fresh start server.


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#46 Feuer

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 12:35 AM

Dividing the player base is not a viable option due to low population. 


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#47 OshOsh

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 02:21 AM

Do a 50% zulies deduction on all accounts wouldn't it be great
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#48 dixymen

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 05:29 AM

Dividing the player base is not a viable option due to low population. 

 

they've opened like 7 servers for ragnarok, they care about one thing and it ain't population


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#49 Feuer

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Posted 26 July 2017 - 08:11 AM

Ragnarok easily has 5x more players than ROSE, easily. 

We have had 2 servers before, and everyone seems to have forgotten just how miserably un-populated it was. Getting simple pvp matches to start was a miracle. It's just not an option.


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#50 calder12

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 01:34 AM

While I fully believe that populating low level areas is a good idea, this wouldn't work. People would just make the lowest taxed area the new vending location. If Zant were 10% and JP 20% no one would vend in JP why would they?


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