80 replies to this topic

[Apocryphos]

Proper labels in game regarding the CD would be the cherry on top. Definitely enjoying the more fast pace changes maybe buff's are next!  

[Kristof3195]

Meanwhile Im here facerolling over people who were naive and thought my class is fine and will never be nerfed  

[TurtleTuber]

Wide Heal casttime could be 3 seconds and muddy mud debuff longer.

[Popcorn]

Thank you for all the feedback. Today I will look over the missing stun effect for Octupus Ink Gun and why Muddy Mud does not behave like it should in PvP (regarding the report). Strangely all of this worked on my test system. As always the live server is not behaving as it should *sigh*

I hope (I am very sure) that I get this fixed before Emporia happens this weekend (best would be today to not interrupt the Friday EXP rates).

 

I know that server maintenances are annoying but in my opinion it is better to fix things which are impacting the game(play) as fast as possible than let the community wait for one week or more to get those things done. Also I had changing the descriptions for skills which are different in PvP in mind too but I just had not enough time to change the descriptions before the maintenance started.

 

For the different behavior of skills in PvP and PvE - this is something I wanted to achieve earlier - but as often nothing is really easy to do with the game. That's the reason why this is happening now and not earlier. There was no possibility to separate cooldowns from PvP and PvE nor there was a way to adjust them for one of both "modes". It had to be coded from the scratch. Also there is no way to change the casttime or duration of effects separately. For more flexibility I am planning to implement those two too. Then we can see if the possibility to adjust those sapeartely could be needed in the future or not. But if we need them we have them at least.

 

The team (I or CM Dragonlark) will keep you updated on the two reported bugs (Stun Effect on Octopus Ink Gun, Muddy Mud behavior) when I found out what is wrong with them.

 

 

 

[EternalShadows]

I personally do not see Chaincombo as a problem at all; all classes have it and it changed the game up a lot in a good way. The stuns are short and for you to spam them, you are limiting yourself to doing almost no damage. 

 

Warlock is literally only "OP" in multi PvP scenarios such as BSQ and Empo, and that's only because of their Slow Heal. Crippling their defense and reducing their comboing potential is definitely not needed, considering they don't have any actual catching skills.

 

As far as Archers go, Shootdown is the problem. Their chaincombo was effectively balanced with a previous patch.

 No. They are using micro keys to continues to spam lock stun and that's a fact ARCHERS. Something game mechanics were not supposed to do. Archers over all are the main problem here and not only that, they also have enhanced attack speed on archers. Although 270 was the cut off for priest-sumonners-destroyers, you see people still able to spam attacks faster due to running background programs. I have taken videos of individual with 270 AS, but when you see it in action, you see the attack speed is not what it shows. Numerous individuals has it.

 

Warlock are OP due to been able to get out and heal and the defense is the highest in game, making them a most have for grinding bsq. And no, slow heal is not the only heal they have, they also have instant in the same skill tree, so they have 2 types of heal to use.

 

Archers shoot-down is part of the problem too much damage, but not a game breaker, the problem comes from the continues chain combo lock.

 

The 3 classes that need it serious consideration were left alone and use wrong skill enhancement to pretend the problem is fixed, but is not fixed and only prolong. 3 classes use the most during in game bsq-pvp will continue to be, due to having lack of balancing. Harlequin should not be touched up at all and if anything their attack should of been increased, headspin is too easy to counter and all classes can counter that move.

Edited by EternalShadows, 13 July 2017 - 02:08 AM.

[nighty007]

Seems like you really want warlock to be nerfed, a class with literally 0 ways to catch someone.
But yes, i agree about Slow heal, but its also depending on your max hp and invo got this spell as well tho, same with self heal, kinda hard to do something about it because you would nerf both classes with it, not only sorc.

Edited by nighty007, 13 July 2017 - 01:57 AM.

[EternalShadows]

Can i get a free skill reset then? I dont really want to keep this crippled Mud in my Moveset.

Lmao..................... You have a point, but there has never been scroll issues for skill balancing, not ever. Always said the same thing, is not the palyers fault that skill are changed, but we always are the ones to pay.  

[TurtleTuber]

Micro keys? What?

 

You can spam stun total normally with hand, same as Warrior can do with chaincombos, same as other classes can do with using normal skills (CrossCut + Hammer, CrossCut + Sword-Dance) which takes way less skill than spamming archers chaincombo and isnt effected by lag as much as the chaincombos.

 

Headspin is pretty op since you get superarmor + you can move + you launch. Savage got the most stunning skills ingame, and since they got Final Decission back, they are quite op. So i think 3 seconds more at Headspin isnt the end of the world.

 

 

What i have also noticed is that following skills are bugged:

 

if people are freezed/ stun skills like wyvern blade and headspin tend to still launch/ attack the opponent. Same goes for Golgon. Even though Golgon is freezed it sometimes hit you with his stunning moves for at least 6 times.

 

 

Warlock is OP in terms of AoE skills, tankyness, PvP Damage and so on, yes. But as that other guy mentioned: they got no real catching skill. Interested to see how this will work out in PvP and BSQ.

 

 

To that guy who suggested to remove the hiding ability on traps: that are traps. traps are supposed to be hidden. Everyone is still able to see the hidden traps even tho they are "hidden". You can also see them in a 20+ people BSQ  with 5 summoner and 5 Invoker all over the place. If you still step into them its your fault.

Edited by TurtleTuber, 13 July 2017 - 02:40 AM.

[Vossel]

I'd love to have someone come and look at my character and help me fix my setup however it is messed up. I've been on since 2010 and It is hard to keep trying to update my setup every time something has changed.

get your weap +20 and as much critical dmg and rate as possible and you are good to go

thats simply all you need.

[Marziale]

 

To that guy who suggested to remove the hiding ability on traps: that are traps. traps are supposed to be hidden. Everyone is still able to see the hidden traps even tho they are "hidden". You can also see them in a 20+ people BSQ  with 5 summoner and 5 Invoker all over the place. If you still step into them its your fault.

 

Sentinels don't require the amount of skill they used to do, and that passive is one of the reasons why. Smart trap placement is gone because it's easier to hide in a minefield + the optional shoot down every few seconds. Especially if the trap debuffs are that strong. Let's face it, playing a sentinel at the moment means huging a part of the map while replacing the traps everytime they disappear. 3 out of 4 close combat classes don't have a ''reliable'' method of pulling a sentinel out of his safe zone. Dragoon's Cross Cut has a huge range, you can easily catch someone in their minefield. But what then? Go into it and get that silence debuff? Ninjas can throw daggers or rocket punch but can't follow up with violent blow or mist vanish because going in there is suicide.

 

Sentinels don't need that passive especially if you consider you can easily start a combo with a combination of e.g. wolf rush + freeze trap. With a bit of practise of course. 

Edited by Marziale, 13 July 2017 - 03:19 AM.

[qweweqweqwq]

sorcerers dont have a catching skill but they can just kite you or fight you head on w/ z spams and fire emblem and deal a lot of damage it's actually more worse than tesla since you cant really move when you are right at the middle of the ball and their z spam is more annoying compared to headspin since you cant actually fight back a invo/sorcerer z spamming right at your face since it even breaks super armor skills and the z spam itself is super armor.

Edited by qweweqweqwq, 13 July 2017 - 03:18 AM.

[TurtleTuber]

Sentinels don't require the amount of skill they used to do, and that passive is one of the reasons why. Smart trap placement is gone because it's easier to hide in a minefield 

 

 

sentinels dont require the skill they used to do because of the hiding passive?

 

sry but that makes no sense. the traps arent really hidden, since you can still see them pretty well. but how does that affect the skill that is needed to play sentinel?

 

without the passive you see them. with the passive they are a bit harder to see. simply keep your eyes open.

 

 

also: in your post you are complaining about traps in general (not being able to followup etc.) not hiding status.

 

people always like to complain about classes they lost against without mentioning the bad sites of their own classes.

 

you complain about DK not being able to continue its combo if theres a trap. no one forces you to walk into it. use sword dance after cross cut and then one aoe chaincombo stun and the traps duration is already gone.

 

way more gamebreaking is the dragoons impervision, the ability to spam hammer,  blessing and that other healing spell in 1o1.

 

 

@qweweqweqwq

 

yes im also not completely sure what i should think about the warlocks buff. but we will see how it works out. at the one hand warlock had no catching skill, at the other hand you are most likely dead if a sorcerer catches you thanks to the high dmg.

 

 

 

Edited by TurtleTuber, 13 July 2017 - 03:39 AM.

[Marziale]

sentinels dont require the skill they used to do because of the hiding passive?

 

sry but that makes no sense. the traps arent really hidden, since you can still see them pretty well. but how does that affect the skill that is needed to play sentinel?

 

without the passive you see them. with the passive they are a bit harder to see. simply keep your eyes open.

 

Seems like you don't understand what I meant with ''smart trap placement''. Obviously, placing the traps randomly and hiding behind them like many people do now was useless. How can one use those traps you may ask? Sentinels got a huge amount of launch skills which, combined with AAS forced your opponent to ground recover. Place a trap where your opponent will stand up and there you go, you got your combo started. Let's don't forget the amount of hit stun skills the class has. Believe me, a well placed wolf rush/blitz+ freeze mine can catch the opponent before he gets launched. I think NO introduced Tesla and that passive, which changed a highly offensive class into a highly defensive class, gameplay wise. For a fast game like Dragon Saga that's not healthy.

 

Also, you cannot say the traps are easy to see. It depends on the map, if they are placed under Tesla etc. 

 

Edit: I'm not complaining, nor do I complain about the traps. I gave reasons why the combination of strong debuffs with a passive that makes the traps very hard to see, especially when they are placed under a tesla is too strong. As I said, locking down a opponent until their traps disappear should not be mandatory in a fast paced game.

Edited by Marziale, 13 July 2017 - 03:49 AM.

[TurtleTuber]

Assumption. Forced groundrecover doesnt work.

Therefor wolf+ freeze does work only in the rarest cases.

And idk whats the matter with hidden traps. As i said i can see every single ones in a full aqua and fire bsq.

[Popcorn]

Hello Guys,

 

it's okay to discuss about the recent changes, however it makes not much sense to discuss in a patch notes topic about other skills you think they could need changes.

I would suggest to use the forum sections of the particular classes to discuss them (just open up a topic).

 

This topic is turning into a "chaos" where we easily can lose track and good ideas and suggestions within this chaotic topic can be overlooked.

If you think that a skill could need a change or just want to discuss with others about a particular skill or skills it would be easier for everyone if you would post into the particular class sections.

 

My post is not meant offending. This topic is mostly civil and totally okay from the point of discussion but it's too much different information packed into one topic.

 

 

Thank you.

 

[Popcorn]

I have found and fixed both issues (Stun effect not working for Octopus Ink Gun, Muddy Mud change not working properly) and I'll request a maintenance for today. As always I have to wait for a response from the responsible so I can't promise that it will be done today.

 

We will keep you updated.

 

[Precrush]

Just because x class got a nerf this time doesn't meant they wont get a buff the next. They could shove all the balance updates into one patch, we'd get to wait a year for that and it'd probably end up fixing nothing. With small updates at a time it could happen that a weaker class gets a nerf to a perhaps a problematic skill or a stronger class gets a buff since a skill that didn't work before is fixed. But with them we can also hope to get actual progress done since the changes can be monitored and adjusted.

This way also means that at least in my opinion it's unreasonable to expect a skill reset with each update.

[blackph]

There was no possibility to separate cooldowns from PvP and PvE nor there was a way to adjust them for one of both "modes".

 

Understood! No more complaints about that longer Tesla cooldown in PvE. But I still hope you will be able to seperate cooldowns one day

[zeroskyes2]

I'm just hoping that the block rate issue with the socket card is fixed in the next week's patch cuz I ended up socketing some of my gear with a block rate socket card and I only found out afterwards that the block rate socket card doesn't affect the block rate at all and I'm low on gold to extract the socket since I need to soul craft + enchant most of my gear still

Edited by zeroskyes2, 13 July 2017 - 09:51 AM.

[Popcorn]

Understood! No more complaints about that longer Tesla cooldown in PvE. But I still hope you will be able to seperate cooldowns one day

 

You might have understood me wrong, it is now possible to separate the cooldowns - it has been done. But we try to keep the skills equal (as equal as possible) in PvP and PvE unless there is a high impact for one of those "modes". The team decided that the skill Tesla needs a proper cooldown and that the impact for PvE is not that high that it would need a separated change in this case. On a side node, we are not done with the balance. As many agree to it's easier for us to balance with a "scalpel"  to see the impact of those small changes rather than balance with a "chainsaw". 

This is why we also have a testing phase. We are well aware that some physical classes need more balance (and I don't talk only about changes which feel "negative" to the people playing the particular class). But please stay patient. It takes time.

[Popcorn]

I'm just hoping that the block rate issue with the socket card is fixed in the next week's patch cuz I ended up socketing some of my gear with a block rate socket card and I only found out afterwards that the block rate socket card doesn't affect the block rate at all and I'm low on gold to extract the socket since I need to soul craft + enchant most of my gear still

 

The block rate system is completely messed up system. Block rate only works for classes which have a base block rate since someone decided to set the block rate cap to zero for almost every class. It was totally OP in the past - no question - but instead of trying to find solutions (balance) the former devs seemed to think that what's not working is not worth bothering with and is simply taken out. It's not the first time I see this. They also just stopped working on things because it seemed to be to complicated (like the former Fire Ink skill which just has been left in the game undone).

 

At the time being we have to first figure out a solution which does not make it totally OP again. And to be honest I have first to understand the mess they made with the block rate code or better what they left of it.

[zeroskyes2]

The block rate system is completely messed up system. Block rate only works for classes which have a base block rate since someone decided to set the block rate cap to zero for almost every class. It was totally OP in the past - no question - but instead of trying to find solutions (balance) the former devs seemed to think that what's not working is not worth bothering with and is simply taken out. It's not the first time I see this. They also just stopped working on things because it seemed to be to complicated (like the former Fire Ink skill which just has been left in the game undone).

 

At the time being we have to first figure out a solution which does not make it totally OP again. And to be honest I have first to understand the mess they made with the block rate code or better what they left of it.

 

ahh that's too bad, but I don't mind waiting so I'll wait I suppose, it's only one socket anyway + I'm just a really bad solo PvE player rather than PvP so its fine for me but well good luck and keep up the good work!

[testg]

Highly appreciate acknowledgement of the physical class. Magnet is still very efficient vs group with the nerf having very little impact in choke point.. The length of duration of the skill might need be tweaked. The muddy mud duration seem a bit short it misses too. just my thoughts

[testg]

Sorry to bother. It seem diffusion canon and double shoot is not working? Thanks

[qweweqweqwq]

magnet's range is actually a little bit lower now since last time the moment someone casts magnet you don't have time to run away but now you can actually outrun the cast animation