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2h Sword Knight vs Spear Knight?


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#1 Achelexus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:50 AM

What do you think? Spear mastery works for both 1h and 2h spears, while you need to invest in either 1h or 2h sword mastery. Spear mastery also has a bigger bonus while on a Peco, and has no size based damage penalty either. Elemental Lances are also cheaper than Elemental Claymores, and you can use Spear Stab/Boomerang / Brandish Spear. The downside is no 2h Quicken, and that spears have less ASPD anyway.

Thoughts?


Edited by Achelexus, 13 July 2017 - 01:00 AM.

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#2 whopperxl

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:06 AM

I think it's more or less the question "Do I want Bowling Bash" since that is mostly considered to be the optimal mobbing skill for a knight.
Not that the spear skills ain't good,  for mobbing just maybe a bit less so.  It's all relative.


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#3 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 01:37 AM

It doesnt really change much tbh, as long as you get Bowling Bash
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#4 Achelexus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:35 AM

It doesnt really change much tbh, as long as you get Bowling Bash

The damage is better overall, but the ASPD loss is big. Spear Boomerang is also great to deal with some pesky mobs like Penomenas.


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#5 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 03:43 AM

the aspd isnt a big deal if you are just spamming skills and killing them in 1-2 uses (BB is strong af). Spear has more skill options but they arent all that usefull.

The one pro for using spear is that when mounted you get rid of size penalty.
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#6 Chopchop00

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:50 AM

Spear knight is an end-game build, you can level up faster with Two hand swords but with spears you have more posibilities in terms of MvP, PVP and Woe. 


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#7 IRFodder

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:10 AM

bb for mobbing, peirce for mvp and boomerang is what I am aiming for, also you don't have to move when magnum breaking with a spear xD


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#8 Achelexus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:22 AM

bb for mobbing, peirce for mvp and boomerang is what I am aiming for, also you don't have to move when magnum breaking with a spear xD

 

Don't think that Pierce outdamages BB.


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#9 IRFodder

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 05:34 AM

Don't think that Pierce outdamages BB.

Really? that seems silly, what's the point of it then?


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#10 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:51 AM

look cool? :v

at this point in the game, nothing outdamages BB

Edited by Ashuckel, 13 July 2017 - 06:52 AM.

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#11 nikarus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:36 AM

Don't think that Pierce outdamages BB.

Pierce will beat BB if you're attacking a single large target(3 hits), and it's level is 7+, in raw damage for a single attack.

Though there is the SP case. I've seen a lot of guides that say get 5 pierce to unlock higher stuff and never look back. Pierce is 7sp while BB at 10 is 22. 3 pierces for 1 BB can actually be very efficient against a target, if you're trying to cut down on SP usage.

Even against a medium target (2hits), you're looking at 150%*2*3 > 900% damage from the same SP as 1 BB (which did 500%). 1350 if you're going after large targets. So if you're not planning to spam SP pots, and not dealing with a mob at the moment pierce can definitely pull ahead of BB.

Also it does have an accuracy bonus like bash does that can be handy against pesky high flee mobs.


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#12 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:49 AM

BB does 1000%. It does 2 hits of 500%.

BB does 66% more damage than Pierce against Big enemies. 150% more damage against Medium. 500% more damage against Small.

It has a higher sp cost, but that's almost not a factor with the 5kp potion boxes.

Edited by Ashuckel, 13 July 2017 - 07:54 AM.

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#13 mildcontempt

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:01 AM

Where are you (Nikarus) getting your damage numbers from?

 

Pierce may have some potential to out DPS BB on specifically large enemies if you were able to spam 4 or 5 a second, but then you'd be locked into single target killing which is a horrible way to level... and also the overall DPS wouldn't be much better since you can probably pull 2 BBs a second with much less (read: almost none) investment into ASPD (and freedom to use swords.) 

 

Not that it's much of a decision since you can get both skills and have left over points. 


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#14 Highdrated

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 08:55 AM

pole axe beats it all, wait til spiral pierce comes out.


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#15 mildcontempt

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:33 PM

Poll Axe*


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#16 nikarus

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:40 PM

BB does 1000%. It does 2 hits of 500%.

Only if the target hits another enemy (least thats how it used to be), it may just auto-2hit with a single target on this server though, and if it does that's idiotic and I'm bug reporting it because that's broken as hell. Also, the only instance you're going to be possibly using pierce is against single targets, not groups.

So do you get 2hits with BB against a single target that doesn't get knocked into anything? Wait, is it doing 2 hits to the mob too?

It has a higher sp cost, but that's almost not a factor with the 5kp potion boxes.

Players can't get a free 250kp keys anymore last I checked, so they will start having to pay out of pocket for them. There's also the chance that the WOE potions may be pulled out of general use in the future and restricted to WOE use.

Especially when alchemists come along. Cause if they're just gonna give out pots like that. I'd like a stack of AGI, Blessing, and priest buffs that I can buy for $0.10. $0.50 for a very very strong ice claymore would be nice too because screw blacksmiths. Who needs support classes when I can just use money?

Meanwhile there are people who are perfectly fine with playing without spamming premium items.

Where are you (Nikarus) getting your damage numbers from?

Both IRO classic and renewal wikis list the same % damage modifiers for BB and Pierce. Unmentionables also list 150% and 200% as the damage mod for pierce at level 5 and level 10 respectively. For some reason the tooltip for pierce (and brandish spear) don't list additional damage bonuses per level in game for some reason. (Several skills are bugged like this.)

Course those wikis might be wrong, and pierce has no damage modifier advantage per level in this server, but I highly doubt that.

and also the overall DPS wouldn't be much better

BB had a built in delay, whereas pierce was spammable IIRC. Though that might not be the case on this server with their mixed up mechanics here and there.

Not that it's much of a decision since you can get both skills and have left over points. 

2h knights were always supposed to be the group fighters, while spears were for single target. If BB 2h knight is getting the second attack against single targets though and doing 1000% with every BB usage... then there's literally 0 point in even associating yourself with the spear skills.

but then you'd be locked into single target killing which is a horrible way to level...

Leveling isn't everything. Many builds that are good for MVP, or PVP, or WOE might not be good for leveling solo. Shield crusaders for example are garbage to level, but extremely powerful once leveled up, and geared. Assassins and rogues are slow to level as you can't mob, but are both quite powerful in PVP. (at least they were). Also not everything is solo grinding. I can remember in early RO, 1 of my guildies, (spear knight) his primary role while we were leveling was to hang around the squishier people of the party, and spear stab things away from them. Meanwhile our other players did other thigns for mobbing and killing groups of things.  

Course if BB is really that broken, again there's precious little point in a spear knight ATM.


Edited by nikarus, 13 July 2017 - 04:36 PM.

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#17 mildcontempt

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 12:48 PM

Yeah, you're... mistaken about a few things. BB will always hit twice unless you're in a gutter-line. 

 

Remember, this is using renewal mechanics. 

 


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#18 Krispin2

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:13 PM

Really? that seems silly, what's the point of it then?

 

That BB is stupid and they never bothered to fix it, so every other attack sucks by comparison.

 

They could at least have tried to balance the spear skills out with BB at some point, but nah, every build a BB build.

Single target, multi target, no reason to use anything else since 500%*2 damage makes every other attack a complete waste of points, except for perhaps spear boomerang and only because it's ranged.

 

And yes nikarus, it hits twice, whether single targets or multiple, as long as you're not in the gutter.

Yes, it's stupid.

Yes it makes every other knight and swordie attack pointless and redundant.

No, it wont be fixed.

It would have been well over a decade ago if they had even the slightest intention to.


Edited by Krispin2, 13 July 2017 - 04:20 PM.

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#19 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:38 PM

it took them 12 years to fix Crusaders Grand Cross(on kRO). You never know :v


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#20 mildcontempt

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 04:41 PM

Wait, so BB hitting 2x is a bug? LOL


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#21 Ashuckel

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:29 PM

it hitting 4x is a bug :v


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#22 Alesstormy

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:34 PM

PvM 2h sword, future PvP, spear all the way 


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#23 Bazzz

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 07:03 PM

if the extra dmg from a lance makes it take 1 less bb to kill stuff use it otherwise a 2h sword for aspd. 


Edited by Bazzz, 13 July 2017 - 07:04 PM.

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#24 Brotonn

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 09:30 PM

A DPS Focused Knight will not out mob a Tank-Focused Knight (Spear or 2h).   But a 2h BB Tank Strength Vit Dex (SVD) can self-level out-mob a Spear knight.

 

The spear-knight provides more flexibility in terms of MVP/PVP/WOE.

If you want to be a tank AND can afford a neutralizer then level 2h SVD Bowling Bash else Spear.

If you want to be DPS go Hybrid 2h

 

A Hybrid or Agi-knight cannot out mob an SVD Spear Knight.

 

I'm currently 80(almost 81) as an SVD Spear Knight.

 

Message me ingame "Broton" if you need more Knight advice.


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