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[Idea] skill comboing potential sometime in the future


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#1 Vossel

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 05:11 AM

I wanna get some feedback about what you think about my idea of skill comboing.

This is a simple idea, give some skills that have cast time or charge time the potential to be a instant cast or instant full charge if a condition is fullfilled, as exaple another skill is used right before that one.

An example would be the Demolition charge for the Overlord. The condition could be to use it directly after death snatch, so you pull the enemy towards you and have the opportunity to give them an instant charged Demolition charge, which can deal quite some dmg if its charged, but as single skill its not that usefull. I wouldnt set more than 1 or maximum of 2 conditions for something like that, so there wont be some forced combo patterns for people and there is still space for creativity.


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#2 Agitodesu

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 06:03 AM

So basically you want a combo skill to execute faster. The first skill will always be the same, the second skill will just execute faster.

Myriads of problems.

1st problem is death snatch as a skill isn't even working as intended. 2nd problem is speeding up the animation process of the skill or even a new animation (coding). 3rd problem popcorn doesn't like animation canceling or anything similar to that since every topic touching that is turned down.

I know the one you represented was just an example, but implementing that kind of idea would be something on massive update type of scale, example identical to the galaxia update of the comboing system. It would have been nice having something like death snatch and pressing space bar or something to execute demolition charge instantly.

 

Your idea should have came out during the galaxia update to enhance the combo system, this system is both pve and pvp so it's helpful.

I think this would never be taken into consideration. The system revolves around speeding/canceling animations which is a ton of work. Although with a suitable title of arcadia being an arcade type game, the idea of comboing is healthy.


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#3 Bustincaps

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 07:02 AM

So basically you want a combo skill to execute faster. The first skill will always be the same, the second skill will just execute faster.

Myriads of problems.

1st problem is death snatch as a skill isn't even working as intended. 2nd problem is speeding up the animation process of the skill or even a new animation (coding). 3rd problem popcorn doesn't like animation canceling or anything similar to that since every topic touching that is turned down.

I know the one you represented was just an example, but implementing that kind of idea would be something on massive update type of scale, example identical to the galaxia update of the comboing system. It would have been nice having something like death snatch and pressing space bar or something to execute demolition charge instantly.

 

Your idea should have came out during the galaxia update to enhance the combo system, this system is both pve and pvp so it's helpful.

I think this would never be taken into consideration. The system revolves around speeding/canceling animations which is a ton of work. Although with a suitable title of arcadia being an arcade type game, the idea of comboing is healthy.

 

Well stated. Demo Charge needs love in other ways than just casting speed anyway. :P The damage is underwhelming to say the least.


Edited by Bustincaps, 15 July 2017 - 07:04 AM.

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#4 Rossbach

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Posted 15 July 2017 - 09:51 PM


2nd problem is speeding up the animation process of the skill or even a new animation (coding).
 
SPEED="xx.xx"
 
Yes, hard.
 
 
Edit some content into this:
 
 
I kinda like the idea if multiple options was added for different types of combos (Like the norm combo) and not some stale set in stone combo. The problem for me is the game is already kinda comboish. If this helps useless skill then yes, if it is to add more inf lock combos then no.

Edited by Rossbach, 15 July 2017 - 10:08 PM.

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#5 Agitodesu

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:17 AM

SPEED="xx.xx"

 
Yes, hard.

 

It's not that simple. Even if that's exactly how to change it since your'e very smart, that would only change the skill so the combo system that vossel mentioned is completely useless. Changing a skill vs entering a combo system is completely different. If you were to use a combination of skills that don't use the prerequisite the effect would be the same because all you did was change the speed of that skill.


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#6 Vossel

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:35 AM

There is no need for speeding up animations, what i thought it to be is shortening them by removing the cast time or charge time, the animation would still maintain the same.

Sure skills that have an animation during the cast time shouldnt be affected by that but i doubt that any other skill than "At Light Speed" has any animation during its cast.

So to sum it up my idea is to skip the cast/charge part of the skill and jump directly to the animation and not to speed it up.


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#7 Agitodesu

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 02:59 AM

You can already make it instant though, can you name a different example besides the overlord combo I've already noticed that only players who have a decent amount of experience on overlords decided to put in a comment. What kind of combos would you expect on the other 9 classes?


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#8 Vossel

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 04:54 AM

make the meteor strike from the warlock instant, after the penguin or so.

those summoned ninjas from third ninja tree instant after like the woodrush.

Rolling stone after area spell.

spark rock for invoker can be worked with.

i think every class except for twin has 1 or 2 skills that can be used for this idea.


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#9 Rossbach

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 06:55 PM

It's not that simple. Even if that's exactly how to change it since your'e very smart, that would only change the skill so the combo system that vossel mentioned is completely useless. Changing a skill vs entering a combo system is completely different. If you were to use a combination of skills that don't use the prerequisite the effect would be the same because all you did was change the speed of that skill.

 

Ya sorry, the speed only works for the particular animation it is set to which is what I thought you were saying there.


Edited by Rossbach, 16 July 2017 - 07:07 PM.

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#10 Bustincaps

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Posted 16 July 2017 - 07:17 PM

Without me assuming the staff team has the tools/knowledge required to code this combo system, one improvised way of tackling it would be to make certain skills apply a cast time reduction buff (I would imagine they could figure this out, considering we already have Time Reverse and Casting Acceleration that they could just replicate the effect of) that lasts for a few seconds after the skill animation ends. This would allow you to do what you're proposing, even with skills that you "charge" rather than "cast" since such a buff also affects "charge" skills. For an example, the typical spacebar charge attack can be compared with and without TR. The downside of this is that it would affect any skill the class has with a charging or casting time, which would be game breaking. I don't see this comboing proposal happening, to be honest, since the only easy way is not an option. I also don't see anything 100% new being added to this game before its death, but who knows.


Edited by Bustincaps, 16 July 2017 - 07:24 PM.

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#11 Vossel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 02:16 AM

Without me assuming the staff team has the tools/knowledge required to code this combo system, one improvised way of tackling it would be to make certain skills apply a cast time reduction buff (I would imagine they could figure this out, considering we already have Time Reverse and Casting Acceleration that they could just replicate the effect of) that lasts for a few seconds after the skill animation ends. This would allow you to do what you're proposing, even with skills that you "charge" rather than "cast" since such a buff also affects "charge" skills. For an example, the typical spacebar charge attack can be compared with and without TR. The downside of this is that it would affect any skill the class has with a charging or casting time, which would be game breaking. I don't see this comboing proposal happening, to be honest, since the only easy way is not an option. I also don't see anything 100% new being added to this game before its death, but who knows.

this may sounds easy to be done, but probably isnt.

Create a variable that is for those combo-able skills. set it true if the skill preparing the combo skill is used and if the skill for the follow up combo is pressed, ask if the variable is true and if it is then skip the animation. No need for a buff given to the player and it wont give the possibility to abuse it for other skills since, it only works at those skills that ask for the variable and that are only those fitting for combos.

But each combo-able skill would need its own variable, so you cant use 1 preparing skill and use another follow up skill that is not meant for that one.


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#12 TurtleTuber

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:17 AM

make the meteor strike from the warlock instant, after the penguin or so.

those summoned ninjas from third ninja tree instant after like the woodrush.

Rolling stone after area spell.

spark rock for invoker can be worked with.

i think every class except for twin has 1 or 2 skills that can be used for this idea.

sry, but why would you need that?

 

you can bind all the listed skills perfectly in a normal combo. especially rolling stone and  cross blade. even meteor strike is easy to use in a combo considering sorcerers long freeze debuffs.

 

all that skills can already be used in a combo easy and fine. if people dont use it its because they dont know how or because the dps with that skills is too low.

 

also looking at BSQ summoner are using rolling stone often as an opener / catching skill if the field is crowded and they bind it even more easy in their combos. i dont see a reason to make this skill an instant cast followup.

 

also with the idea of an instant cast skill directly after a skill that someone has chosen you would influence peoples combo behaviour. like why meteor after penguin, why not after blizzard and so on.

 

 

also (if you didnt notice) at almost every class theres 1 awakening skill which is suitable for pvp and combos (mostly first one) and 1 awakening skill which is not so suitable for pvp (mostly second one).

 

Classes with this cases are:

Ninja

Overlord

Savage

Sentinel (most of the cases only 1st one gets used, but second one is also possible)

Summoner (1st awekening for combos)

 

 

For Twin and Sorcerer i cant tell. Dragoons skills are both usefull. Destroyers ones are both not very suitable for PvP but i used first one also more than second one.

 

What i want to say with this is that regarding to the topic not only Overlord has that problem of 1 awakening skill being not as suitable for pvp as the other one.


Edited by TurtleTuber, 17 July 2017 - 03:43 AM.

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#13 Vossel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 03:54 AM

sry, but why would you need that?

 

you can bind all the listed skills perfectly in a normal combo. especially rolling stone and  cross blade. even meteor strike is easy to use in a combo considering sorcerers long freeze debuffs.

 

all that skills can already be used in a combo easy and fine. if people dont use it its because they dont know how or because the dps with that skills is too low.

 

also looking at BSQ summoner are using rolling stone often as an opener / catching skill if the field is crowded and they bind it even more easy in their combos. i dont see a reason to make this skill an instant cast followup.

 

also with the idea of an instant cast skill directly after a skill that someone has chosen you would influence peoples combo behaviour. like why meteor after penguin, why not after blizzard and so on.

 

 

also (if you didnt notice) at almost every class theres 1 awakening skill which is suitable for pvp and combos (mostly first one) and 1 awakening skill which is not so suitable for pvp (mostly second one).

 

Classes with this cases are:

Ninja

Overlord

Savage

Sentinel (most of the cases only 1st one gets used, but second one is also possible)

Summoner (1st awekening for combos)

 

 

For Twin and Sorcerer i cant tell. Dragoons skills are both usefull. Destroyers ones are both not very suitable for PvP but i used first one also more than second one.

 

What i want to say with this is that regarding to the topic not only Overlord has that problem of 1 awakening skill being not as suitable for pvp as the other one.

To make this clear this is not about awakening skills in particular, also i was giving only examples for skill combination, as you can see i wrote "or so" after the thing with penguin.

Also am i not only talking about Overlord, Overlord is just the class i know the best and can give most examples on.

This idea doesnt influence the combo behaviour of player really much. I mean giving like 1 or 2 skills of each class the potential of combo doesnt mean they have to use it, maybe the player have better combos and dont need to use stuff like that in PvP. Those combos can be usefull in PvE as well, i mean an instant meteor cast for additional damage is great isnt it?


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#14 TurtleTuber

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 04:48 AM

dont think that meteor as an instant cast is really needed in pve. there are already alot items that reduce casting time and i also dont know if the launching effect is wanted in solo / group PvE. If you want to use it in PvE that 1 second casting time wont kill you in my opinion :/


Edited by TurtleTuber, 17 July 2017 - 04:48 AM.

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#15 Agitodesu

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 05:56 AM

It's just to spice up the skill to be honest. I've played pve and pvp on sorcerer and what I've noticed is that meteor 1-5/5 is complete garbage but it's fun to use and I still use it despite it being a dps loss in nearly all situations. I guess it's just to make it a bit more effective since the situations where meteor will actually out damage anything else is near to null.

 

1. Cast time and animation "lock" unless you cancel makes it a dps loss to any warlock rotation. It's only useful if you can 1 shot everything on the first hit since fire emblem is the clostest aoe skill with the range of meteor. Fire emblem is just a reliable rng since the dps and aoe is better than meteor.

2. The actual damage from the 5 strikes is far less than any other skill despite it having that huge 750% or something damage amplifier.

3. There is a high chance that all 5 meteors will not hit once the enemies are launched a certain distance from the ground.

4. There needs to be like 50 monsters in that range in order for it to do some decent dps. Even though I haven't seen a situation often enough to be making that skill useful for its 150 SP cost. I mean come on, that thing costs more than the awakening skills except ultimate and only 2 points into it is already as much as an ultimate for only 2 hits of the meteor.

 

Simply put it's just one of those skills that looks op, but is completely underwhelming compared to the main warlock skills. I'm neither for or against buffing it, but applying that combo skill would help spice up the sorcerer, be it good or bad because you don't have to use it in the first place, just like the combo system.


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#16 TurtleTuber

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:30 AM

but shouldnt you work on that certain skill (making it better/ give meteor strike directly instant cast), beside of implementing a completely new system that is for the most of classes and cases pretty useless and in addition a bunch of work to code?


Edited by TurtleTuber, 17 July 2017 - 06:34 AM.

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#17 Agitodesu

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 08:59 AM

That's what I said earlier somewhere up there, about the coding being difficult so this wouldn't be taken into consideration. The trend I've witnessed were skills being nerfed rather than buffed, I haven't been active lately so I may have missed out on some buffs. FIre ink doesnt count since that skill was supposed to do something not nothing lol.


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#18 Vossel

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:51 AM

Remember this is just an idea, implementing this idea doesnt mean to stop buffing classes or those skills that are affected.

This can be implemented and skills can be balanced afterwards.

implementing this combo system just gives the possibility to use some useless skills on like bosses for not a real effort (no cast/charge time) and maybe in the future they get somehow usefull due to some small or bigger buffs/changes


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#19 TurtleTuber

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:15 AM

well i think its better to make the skill more usefull like meteor rush or the second awakenings than implementing a new system which doesnt solve the problems of the skill itself. 


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#20 Fliederduft78

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:38 AM

I'm sorry but I share the same opinion others do. I think it is better to work on the skills that are currently causing problems/ are not working properly /could be made better (balanced out) than to implement a complete new system. Like others already mentioned correctly implementing a complete new system only adds in stuff on top of "broken" skills but does not fix (or make better, balance out) the skills that are currently having problems.

Better work on the skills in question and you guys (who know their class very well) do come up with ideas to "fix" the current problems with the particular skill(s) of a class. If I had a guess I would say this is what the DS team is looking for to get from the community.

 

edit: I mean the pre posted topics regarding skill balances had a quite good response so far and maybe it would be best to continue to go this route.


Edited by Fliederduft78, 17 July 2017 - 11:40 AM.

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#21 9851170220163549840

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:31 PM

I really like this idea. and I know, that is a content from another game as well (a famous MMO-action game right now).

 

Actually this is a great idea in the future. The one who started the topic alone knows very well that is by far impossible to happen sooner. This could just be an idea that developers can save as a reference in the future, specially in increasing level caps.

 

Increasing the cap must not only consist of new contents such as new items or new dungeons. People will also ask for new skills. However, that does not work straight as we all know that quickslots are limited.

 

And replacing the 1st job skills with the newly created skills (if ever this will happen) will not work as well, at least for me. Earlier skills will be left unused and lost its purpose after all the balances made right now (bug fixes for existing skills and nerfing). Hence, this topic could be the best idea.

 

No need to create new glorious skills, Simple skill combo chains or maybe altering a certain skill when you reach a certain level can be made in the future caps.

 

Maybe something Like [Evolved] Rocket Punch = the rocket punch will be enhanced and will leave and small explosion in the affected area when hit. **If not hit, no explosion.

 

Or [Evolved] Swift Attack = each enemy hit by the attack will be provided a paper bomb status (since we are ninja, we use paper bombs!) and will explode again after 4 secs from hit, hence dealing another knockdown. Very useful for chasing.

 

Or maybe, [Instant] DevilStorm Dart = by the far one of the most useless skills a ninja have. But what if it will be enchanced and become instant. Like for example, after using throw dagger, DevilStorm Dart will automatically released if not on cooldown. Since it is hitting knockdown enemies it is still useful. That way, many people will think of upgrading the skill as well as it's debuff as well (Lessens max hp and small DoT).

 

All skills are ninja-based, cause that the only class I am aware of. Lol~~~~

 

Of course, these skills can be attained only by increasing a certain passive skill on the higher levels, maybe lvl 90+ in the future.

 

Those are the things that I could only think of right now. I hope this reply won't be deleted for trying to talk about another game. I didn't mention any names~


Edited by 9851170220163549840, 22 August 2017 - 07:33 PM.

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