352 replies to this topic

[Shanedude]

Shut down portals for 5 min and go around banning all the stuck bots. Easy peasy...
 

[Myzery]

As some of you have noticed we announced our plans to open a new world to accommodate player population on RESTART. Now why, the server is right now reaching the maximum of what it can handle in terms of character activity. Yes we are aware that this is in part due to a large number of automated characters. But the fact still remains that its reaching that point and we have to address that to allow users to play. There is a need to provide stable service now not in a month or a few weeks. Right now having to reboot the server every couple days is not sustainable for us or the player population.

 

We are not giving up on cracking down on the third party program or botting problem, however there is no quick fix to the botting situation, as each version of Ragnarok is it's own unique build. That means that any anti cheat/anti bot solution must under go its own implementation/testing process. Ours is underway but it will take time to reach us. Frigg is not meant to exist as its own world forever and we plan to merge it into Odin in about 5-6 months if not sooner once Odin has stabilized. Afterwards Frigg will become a fresh start server that feeds new players to Odin on a set cycle.

 

All players that join is regardless of if they end up playing on Odin or Frigg are part of the same Ragnarok RESTART family and will be treated as such.

 

Now we want to keep it to a normal civil discussion.

 

What are your concerns regarding these plans?

 

Bad idea. The other servers are already hard enough for you guys to give attention to.

If you do this, it further alienates Classic especially and kind of kills the spirit of the Re:Start server we currently have. Decisions like this boggle my mind and it sincerely makes me question management. This would have been a decent idea for Classic, but not for a new server. It's going to drop botted zeny and surplus items into Re:Start.

I will post more thoughts later but it's a bad idea overall. There's nothing you can do to make it a good thing unless you wait a year or two.

[manoelsilva6666]

Shut down portals for 5 min and go around banning all the stuck bots. Easy peasy...
 

 

Ban all people who have negotiate several times with the bots.
 

[yaguhLOLOL]

I say let Frigg be the legal botting server.

I mean with the logic of gms, Frigg server will reduce the lag because the players from Odin will be there... maybe the bots will go there if they find out it's legal there

huehue

[manoelsilva6666]

Put a 2k player limit in Odin.

 

If bots get 2k players, no players will play, the bots will be useless because no one would be playing the server.

 

So the bots owner would probably reduce it to 1k bots?

 

Idk, kind a game theory strategy...

[Shanedude]

Bots will fill all voids we have to exterminate them with clever idea's.

[Pixelakaroxi]

Put a 2k player limit in Odin.

If bots get 2k players, no players will play, the bots will be useless because no one would be playing the server.

So the bots owner would probably reduce it to 1k bots?

Idk, kind a game theory strategy...

No.

[manoelsilva6666]

Bots will fill all voids we have to exterminate them with clever idea's.

 

Maybe make a client that sends a special code to the server.

 

So the bots programs would not send this signal and it would be detect?

Edited by manoelsilva6666, 20 July 2017 - 03:44 PM.

[yaguhLOLOL]

Still wondering why @Campitor didn't reply to a hoe, oops, I meant hoes, forgot he ignored all of us lel

leavin us at read is rude =(

 

I know you saw the post, you were reading the thread....

[LizzyMcMuffin]

I strongly agree with Myzery on his opinion. If this can happen to Odin, it can happen to Frigg. It'll be like trying to juggle an extra bowling ball when you can barely juggle a couple of bowling pins at the given moment.

Personally, I think all efforts should go to vigilant maintenance / monitoring of the current Odin server and to keep a constant communication between Mod and community while attempting to stem out the bots.

Don't crack the ice and let it separate from the mainland because God knows where it'll float to   : S

Edited by LizzyMcMuffin, 20 July 2017 - 03:50 PM.

[triunph2]

@Camp

Could you talk about what is the hardware config of the server? Because for me it does not make sense to me how it cant handle this amount of players. 

 

Let's get back to 2004, when the game had around the same amount of players, less optimized server client, less hardware processing power and slowest internet. How does the servers even worked back then? 

Even when you say that the server client itself is old and bad programmed it does not make sense.

The limitation of a server even if it's client is poor optmized is based on the hardware.

Take as example a poor optmized game. If you run on a really good hardware you will not see many performance issues.

 

The point is: If the game had a decent performance 12 years ago when the servers where at least 8 times less capable (based on the Moore's Law ) and the home conections where based on dial-ups or if you were lucky a 1mb cable, how today you blame the server client? 

It just dosen't fit.

 

And there's more. You are not running a old version of the client, you are running a renewall modified server. So it means that this client is way more up to date then the one that supported the players back then.

 

Dont run away from the problem. A new server will not fix anything at all. Just work on that.

 

One last thing: Bots from a server side has the same load as a player, they dont send more packages or overload the server. Saying that is just wrong.

[manoelsilva6666]

I strongly agree with Myzery on his opinion. If this can happen to Odin, it can happen to Frigg. It'll be like trying to juggle an extra bowling ball when you can barely juggle a couple of bowling pins at the given moment.

Personally, I think all efforts should go to vigilant maintenance / monitoring of the current Odin server and to keep a constant communication between Mod and community while attempting to stem out the bots.

Don't crack the ice and let it separate from the mainland because God knows where it'll float to   : S

 

I say let the iceberg go...

[Shanedude]

Every maint change the training grounds so bots are forced to update regularly.

Shut down portals to catch stuck bots.

Easy to use player based flag system.

GM go under cover to spend $15 to catch RMT'ers in the act.

 

[manoelsilva6666]

@Camp

Could you talk about what is the hardware config of the server? Because for me it does not make sense to me how it cant handle this amount of players. 

 

Let's get back to 2004, when the game had around the same amount of players, less optimized server client, less hardware processing power and slowest internet. How does the servers even worked back then? 

Even when you say that the server client itself is old and bad programmed it does not make sense.

The limitation of a server even if it's client is poor optmized is based on the hardware.

Take as example a poor optmized game. If you run on a really good hardware you will not see many performance issues.

 

The point is: If the game had a decent performance 12 years ago when the servers where at least 8 times less capable (based on the Moore's Law ) and the home conections where based on dial-ups or if you were lucky a 1mb cable, how today you blame the server client? 

It just dosen't fit.

 

And there's more. You are not running a old version of the client, you are running a renewall modified server. So it means that this client is way more up to date then the one that supported the players back then.

 

Dont run away from the problem. A new server will not fix anything at all. Just work on that.

 

One last thing: Bots from a server side has the same load as a player, they dont send more packages or overload the server. Saying that is just wrong.

 

I think the main problem is that most of the bots are restricted to specific áreas, so it make them very slow.
 

[Exuro]

No. If you add a new server and then address bots later, then only a few will be left in each server up to the point where people will start quitting. I think blocking bots should be taken care of ASAP.

 

Maybe temporarily upgrade Odin to accommodate humans and bots until you come to a point where you can finally block bots out. Then any spare resources after the bot crackdown can be used somewhere else. I'd love to see Odin with 5k population that's all human (I'm not even sure if the human population would reach that number).

 

At the same time, I'd hate to see Odin and Frigg each having 500-1000 players eventually.

Edited by Exuro, 20 July 2017 - 03:58 PM.

[LizzyMcMuffin]

I say let the iceberg go...

Trust me. I'd be more than happy to welcome that idea too. Move to a fresh server, start all over smooth, but sooner or later if this happens again, then it'll just be a small relief / band-aid before the wound opens up again : /

This all seems like a risky gamble to me I suppose. Color me a little concerned.

Cut the stem now, and It may never grow back.

Edited by LizzyMcMuffin, 20 July 2017 - 04:00 PM.

[manoelsilva6666]

No. If you add a new server and then address bots later, then only a few will be left in each server up to the point where people will start quitting. I think blocking bots should be taken care of ASAP.

 

Maybe temporarily upgrade Odin to accommodate humans and bots until you come to a point where you can finally block bots out. Then any spare resources after the bot crackdown can be used somewhere else. I'd love to see Odin with 5k population that's all human (I'm not even sure if the human population would reach that number).

 

Ìnclude some random Q/A that only humans can answer, you can only llog in if you answer them. It will block most of the bots

[Pixelakaroxi]

CAPTCHA styled thing

[Xellie]

I dont understand why this new server would be more appealing to new players than Odin.

 

I dont understand why Odin was launched before the anti-bot measures were in place for it. 

[Exuro]

Ìnclude some random Q/A that only humans can answer, you can only llog in if you answer them. It will block most of the bots

 

That's a bother though. I'm hoping for any anti-bot measure to be as non-intrusive as possible -- something on a packet level maybe.

[Wolfen]

well thank you campitor for answering my question.

 

i understand the double realm is not posible, so this leads me to my second question.

 

is it posible for every new warp portal acount and re:start acound be created for frig alone and entry into odin is only posible via GM server transfer?

 

that way every bot banned in odin hurts like a truck and it would be harder to actually move the botted objects into the market, plus a reset every 2-3 months is a big kill for inflation. the idea is that you can handpick real players to go into odin.

[BestOneHere]

You can't stop botting you deluded dummies.

 

You guys complaining about stupid sh** is why Frigg needs to happen. Should all be punished for your idiocy.

Edited by BestOneHere, 20 July 2017 - 04:05 PM.

[triunph2]

Ìnclude some random Q/A that only humans can answer, you can only llog in if you answer them. It will block most of the bots

This is a solution. Here in Brazil ( bRO) i remember a pin based login (but the bots could get through, because its was only a pin), if you cold do a simple captcha you would kill all the bots instantly. 

Edited by triunph2, 20 July 2017 - 04:05 PM.

[Exuro]

You can't stop botting you deluded dummies.

 

You guys complaining about stupid sh** is why Frigg needs to happen. Should all be punished for your idiocy.

 

Seriously if botters aren't destroying game experience nobody would be complaining in the first place. A lot of players can bot if they chose too, or at least try to learn how to, but they don't, because it's just dumb. No sense of achievement. If you feel like you're top player because you botted then I pity you.

[BestOneHere]

Seriously if botters aren't destroying game experience nobody would be complaining in the first place. A lot of players can bot if they chose too, or at least try to learn how to, but they don't, because it's just dumb. No sense of achievement. If you feel like you're top player because you botted then I pity you.

 

Insulting botters is not gonna stop them either.