100 replies to this topic

[Nugeki]

I've been playing D2 since release and same with D3. They started with an auction house which people could spend real money to for items. Which in theory would remove all bot sellers since nobody had to go buy items from their sites anymore? Instead, after that backfired and other failed attempts they added a new system which removed all trades of legendary and set items.

 

 

Which resulted in:

 

People botting their own personal Accounts, for crafting mats and Greater Rift keys.

 

Players simply buying accounts, with fully geared high paragon characters.

 

 

Removing trading from the game did absolutely nothing to stop cheating. Like I said unless you know about the Diablo 3 community don't talk about it.

[Omocho]

**copied my reply from another thread**


You guys realize bots were still a big issue back during the P2P days?
Bots are either:
1: people who enjoy the game yet for some reason not playing it.
2: gold sellers who make much more than $40-50 a month

You might slow them down a tiny bit but more than likely it just scares off new players and bots keep on botting. And then the server dies even faster. Gold sellers make a ton more than their sub cost. All sub games have or had bots.

I want P2P purely to ditch the pay2win garbage shop. But it won't hurt bots much. Especially not until protections are made.

[HattoriMasahige]

And I told you you are wrong. why repost it lol. p2p had 2-10% bots, this has 60-70%.

[GKole]

**copied my reply from another thread**


You guys realize bots were still a big issue back during the P2P days?
Bots are either:
1: people who enjoy the game yet for some reason not playing it.
2: gold sellers who make much more than $40-50 a month

You might slow them down a tiny bit but more than likely it just scares off new players and bots keep on botting. And then the server dies even faster. Gold sellers make a ton more than their sub cost. All sub games have or had bots.

I want P2P purely to ditch the pay2win garbage shop. But it won't hurt bots much. Especially not until protections are made.

 

 

I don't know where you played during the P2P days but at no point were bots as bad as they are now. People botted yes but bans had weight. Bans were few enough they posted the ban lists for people to look through. Bots would teleport away - it was tricky getting a screenie of them. They were there but they had to be hunted not there to be tripped over at every map you go. A fee does not slow them down a 'tiny bit'. A fee slows them down a significant, palpable perceptible hearty slab worth! 

[HattoriMasahige]

yep, and the big difference is that every acc they lose hurts them, while now it doesn hurt them -_-.

 

Anyone who cant see this, doesnt want to realize this, is either reaaaaally slow in the head, or a botter himself. You wont play a MMO for long if you piss yourself over 10$, so holy -_- please stop to cry about a small fee for a game you potentially play for years. 

[Nakano15]

I really think that P2P at this age would be a bad idea, so I guess not,

even more this game, since It has a big hole in it for years.

[Tanzanito]

P2P means nothing. CS:GO is a paid game and there are a HUGE, like GIGANTIC number of cheaters that'll lose their accounts when banned. OSRS is a mostly P2P game and there's tons of bots. 

 

 

Nothing will stop those that really want to cheat/bot. I mean and even if they somehow manage to block [Removed], people will bot with visual bot from AHK and there's nothing that can stop them.  And if you really think that there was just 2% of bots back then you're really dellusional because back then there was already huge botfarms.

Edited by VModCinnamon, 29 July 2017 - 11:25 PM.
Removed mention of illegal application.

[Acowlyte]

Make it P2P with the price of VIP and give VIP status to everyone.

[Acowlyte]

P2P means  nothing. CS:GO is a paid game and there are a HUGE, like GIGANTIC number of cheaters that'll lose their accounts when banned. 

 

 

Nothing will stop those that really want to cheat/bot. I mean and even if they somehow manage to block OpenKore, people will bot with visual bot from AHK and there's nothing that can stop them.  And if you really think that there was just 2% of bots back then you're really dellusional because back then there was already huge botfarms.

 

CS:GO is not P2P, it's B2P with cash.

[Tanzanito]

CS:GO is not P2P, it's B2P with cash.

 

So? It still defeats the whole argument that "If cheaters gotta pay, they won't cheat".

[GKole]

I really think that P2P at this age would be a bad idea, so I guess not,

even more this game, since It has a big hole in it for years.

 

The population potential for this game is cut severely every day it suffers with this many bots. In terms of server uptime, server lag, the economy, new player experience in general everything sucks with thousands of bots everywhere. So we have to act promptly.

 

The ideal scenario is some amazing anti-bot overlay app officially added to the game. The problem is that this solution moves at the speed of "the game studio". Guess how long they've been needing an official anti-bot on iRO? the number is very similar to the ago of iRO. Over a dozen years.  And this assumes when it shows up it works and is not defeated immediately. 

 

A one time fee when the account opens is the quickest way to reducing the bot count effectively understanding the constraints given the information we have. I admit it isn't much - I'd kill for a GM to weigh in on NEW bot fighting techniques that don't rely on just pushing it on 'the game studio' and using the same tools that have been falling short for years. I agree the number of players that would play if it was free is lower than those that would play if it cost $5 - but I don't think its anywhere on the same level a loss as how poorly the server will play out if bots keep at it like this. 

[Nakano15]

The population potential for this game is cut severely every day it suffers with this many bots. In terms of server uptime, server lag, the economy, new player experience in general everything sucks with thousands of bots everywhere. So we have to act promptly.

 

The ideal scenario is some amazing anti-bot overlay app officially added to the game. The problem is that this solution moves at the speed of "the game studio". Guess how long they've been needing an official anti-bot on iRO? the number is very similar to the ago of iRO. Over a dozen years.  And this assumes when it shows up it works and is not defeated immediately. 

 

A one time fee when the account opens is the quickest way to reducing the bot count effectively understanding the constraints given the information we have. I admit it isn't much - I'd kill for a GM to weigh in on NEW bot fighting techniques that don't rely on just pushing it on 'the game studio' and using the same tools that have been falling short for years. I agree the number of players that would play if it was free is lower than those that would play if it cost $5 - but I don't think its anywhere on the same level a loss as how poorly the server will play out if bots keep at it like this. 

The one time fee will not change the scenary, would still have bots in the game anyway, just notice the bots that have cash shop equipments in the game, most of them didn't bought them from another player store, but scratched their pockets to buy for themselves.

[Acowlyte]

So? It still defeats the whole argument that "If cheaters gotta pay, they won't cheat".

 

I was just correcting you.

 

Anyway, I do agree with you that paying will not defeat "hardcore cheaters", but I'm pretty sure a LOT of people cheat just because it's easy and free.

 

The only real and effective solution is a way to stop OK from connecting to the server.

[kochanneo]

The one time fee will not change the scenary, would still have bots in the game anyway, just notice the bots that have cash shop equipments in the game, most of them didn't bought them from another player store, but scratched their pockets to buy for themselves.

 

I seriously doubt that, when most of the costumes are only 40k or so.

[CCDDZ]

I used to be a paying player on renewal. Haven't paid a single cent here so far. Just waiting for the supposed anti-bot measures that are inbound. Won't believe it till I see it, but if it comes then I'll pay again.

 

Edited by CCDDZ, 27 July 2017 - 01:33 PM.

[GKole]

P2P means nothing. CS:GO is a paid game and there are a HUGE, like GIGANTIC number of cheaters that'll lose their accounts when banned. OSRS is a mostly P2P game and there's tons of bots. 

 

 

Nothing will stop those that really want to cheat/bot. I mean and even if they somehow manage to block OpenKore, people will bot with visual bot from AHK and there's nothing that can stop them.  And if you really think that there was just 2% of bots back then you're really dellusional because back then there was already huge botfarms.

 

 

Do you have any idea what CS:GO would be like if it was free to play? 

 

This isn't a controversial idea, this is basic economic principles here. If you make the cost of one bot account go up the number of people willing to bot will go down. We're talking one or more orders of magnitude fewer bots on the server with a fee in place depending on the fee itself because the current fee is zero.  

Edited by GKole, 27 July 2017 - 01:33 PM.

[imdoutzen]

**copied my reply from another thread**


You guys realize bots were still a big issue back during the P2P days?
Bots are either:
1: people who enjoy the game yet for some reason not playing it.
2: gold sellers who make much more than $40-50 a month

You might slow them down a tiny bit but more than likely it just scares off new players and bots keep on botting. And then the server dies even faster. Gold sellers make a ton more than their sub cost. All sub games have or had bots.

I want P2P purely to ditch the pay2win garbage shop. But it won't hurt bots much. Especially not until protections are made.

 

There were bots during P2P days due to 2 week free trial for new accounts. If only iRO removed that model early on, bot population would have reduced significantly.

[Signar]

If they implement p2p I'd like to see something like a referral program for VIP member's that allows friends and others to play for free on the server. A type of white list. That way if a bunch of bot accounts are caught and they all link to the same referrer you know who is responsible.

Edited by Signar, 27 July 2017 - 05:16 PM.

[DarthaNyan]

Instead of P2P it would be better to limit amount of F2P connections from one IP or PC (whatever is easier to detect but better both) to one, extra connections are possible but only from VIP-activated accounts.

 

That means that in order to run dual client you will have to have VIP on at least one of them. 3 windows - 2 vips and 1 free, etc.

[destiny921]

Im not talking about paying 10$ a month, one time. As any MMO, most if not all of the users plan to play this game a lot, maybe for years. If new single player games go for 50-70 bucks which last you 20-30h, asking for 10$ one time to have a game with less lag, less bots, resulting in the GMs to have more time for interaction with the community.

 

Dunno, 10$ for a game you might play 300, 500, even 1000 hours and even getting WP from it, if money is that tight you might as well save the money for the computer and the internet connection.

 

Ah, I thought you meant subscription.

 

But either way, to me, I don't have much of a problem with that. I'm just pointing out that there's the issue of currency difference and they might lose players who can't afford such.

[HattoriMasahige]

P2P means nothing. CS:GO is a paid game and there are a HUGE, like GIGANTIC number of cheaters that'll lose their accounts when banned. OSRS is a mostly P2P game and there's tons of bots. 

 

 

Nothing will stop those that really want to cheat/bot. I mean and even if they somehow manage to block OpenKore, people will bot with visual bot from AHK and there's nothing that can stop them.  And if you really think that there was just 2% of bots back then you're really dellusional because back then there was already huge botfarms.

 

Believe it or not but posts like this generate even more bots. Some are to lazy to google up how bot programs are even called, thx to you they can type 3 letters in their browser and are set. I mean, I couldnt care less, seeing another RO server go to has become entertaining after the 2nd or 3rd time. 

 

 

 

 

 

nstead of P2P it would be better to limit amount of F2P connections from one IP or PC (whatever is easier to detect but better both) to one, extra connections are possible but only from VIP-activated accounts.

 

That means that in order to run dual client you will have to have VIP on at least one of them. 3 windows - 2 vips and 1 free, etc.

 

Has been discussed 10 years ago already and was denied because in a lot of asian countrys youd hurt internet cafe users as well as in dorms. 

 

 

 

If they implement p2p I'd like to see something like a referral program for VIP member's that allows friends and others to play for free on the server. A type of white list. That way if a bunch of bot accounts are caught and they all link to the same referrer you know who is responsible.

 

Botter buy one acc and whitelist their other bot accs. meh.

 

 

There were bots during P2P days due to 2 week free trial for new accounts. If only iRO removed that model early on, bot population would have reduced significantly.

 

True but yea, has been discussed 100s of times as well, -_- happens. :S Just anther proof that a lot of botter rely on free 2 play options. Sure, the big zeny seller wont care too much, but a lot of private people who think running a bot or 5 is fine because everyone does it will be reduced, I can tell you that.

 

All I hear from those who whine about a p2p mode is "but there will be bots anyways so just leave it as is". Its annoying and wrong. Its a big difference if theres 500 bots of 3 or 4k, so shut up plz.

Edited by HattoriMasahige, 28 July 2017 - 01:14 AM.

[DarthaNyan]

Has been discussed 10 years ago already and was denied because in a lot of asian countrys youd hurt internet cafe users as well as in dorms.

 

I have seen it successfully implemented in EvE Online long time ago: you could either run one trial account or any amount of full(paid) accounts at once. Detection was PC-based so there were no problems for players with shared IP.

Edited by DarthaNyan, 28 July 2017 - 03:05 AM.

[Oritzia]

Hmmm...

I played this game when there was still a subscription model and I had no issues paying it, and I likely wouldn't if they decided that's what they needed to do.
I'm not sure where they said Frigg server was no more?
I thought after they stabilized Odin they were looking into Frigg, and merging Frigg periodically into Odin; has that plan ceased? o.O;

Anyhow, I'd say either a one time payment of $10.00-$15.00; with a one time payment you can still keep VIP open as a monthly subscription after you've "purchased" an account/game however that would need to be worded. ; -;'

Or monthly sub for $5.00-$7.00 at the most expensive end, $10.00; maybe but idk how many people will not pay that especially since a lot of people are saying like 2-3$.
I get a lot of people have multiple accounts but 2-3$ is a very unrealistic price.

Edited by Oritzia, 28 July 2017 - 03:23 AM.

[GoodVibesz]

imagine paying for a server only for it to be ddos'd daily 

[dididanger]

imagine paying for a server only for it to be ddos'd daily 

 

Is it serious that you think this problem will be forever? I see bigger problems to be discussed, this is next to be solved. If we think like you, we will not even start playing the game, even though it's free, time is money for most ..