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Is SVD Knight Worth or Hybrid is the way to Go on the Server!?


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#1 Hywelbane

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 10:16 AM

I was wondering, since we got some mix of renewal/old times going on, does we really need to put more than 80 points in any given stats? In the case of a classic SVD Build you'd go STR 110, VIT 90, DEX 60 ~ something like that... But we lost the bonuses from ending in multiples of 10 right? So I thought of the following build (more like a Hybrid):

 

STR: 80

AG: 60

VIT: 79

INT: 42

DEX: 70

LUK: 08

 

Headgear: Helm (Cramp), Fin Helm and Iron Cain

Weapon: Poleaxe (Zipper Bear/Hydra) and 2H-Sword/Claymore

Armor: Chain Mail (Pecopeco / Pasana etc)

Shiled: Buckler (Thara etc)

Garm: Muffler/Manteau (Raydric)

Footgear: Boots (Matyr)

Accessory: Ring x2 (Mantis/Tarou)

 

Buff: Berserk Potion

 

With that you'd get:

 

HP: 17136

SP: 437

 

SP Regen: 12

ASPD: 167.09 (186 2H-Quicken)

HIT: 346

FLEE: 260

 

Skills: 

 

Sword Mastery: 1/10

Two-Handed Sword Mastery: 5/10

Inc. Rec. Power: 10/10

Bash: 10/10

Provoke: 10/10

Magnum Break: 3/10

Endure: 10/10

 

Riding: 1/1

Cavalry Master: 5/5

Spear Mastery: 3/10

Pierce: 10/10

Spear Boomerang: 5/5

2H Quicken: 10/10

Counter: 5/5

Bowling Bash: 10/10

 

It may be a bit ambitious, but I think you can do well (maybe great) in PvE, MvP, PvP and WoE with this build!

 

On paper it really looks great... what do you guys think about it? Any advice is good (Just try not to be rude if you don't agree and explain why so).


Edited by Hywelbane, 27 July 2017 - 11:34 AM.

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#2 kinkthecat

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 10:31 AM

that looks pretty nice man. wish i had thought of it haha


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#3 Smokedizzy

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:37 PM

you're wasting points in agi dex and int, why do you have 42 int when knight don't need a single point? you're spamming woe blue pots, you do not need int. 
what's the point of 60 agi if you're taking hit anyways? aspd increase is not huge, you have 179 aspd which is more than enough with BB builds at 27 base agi and 54 base dex. 

what's the point of 70 dex when 60(54+6 with bouns) is enough to hit all mobs? 

why do you only have lv5 2h mastery when 2h is your most used weapon?
why do you have 10/10 hp recovery when you're almost always 50% weight or more when grinding due to carrying pots/loots, as this will NEVER become active EVER while above 50% weight.

 

 

these are just few problem i'm pointing out for ya. 

you have the knowledge of a classic knight, not a revo-classic knight. 

 


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#4 havocstopper

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 12:55 PM

Less int more str imo...or even vit.

 

You could get away with less agi because the only reason you'd want it for is the aspd for pierce spam, not flee.


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#5 Ignasia

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:28 PM

Less int more str imo...or even vit.

 

You could get away with less agi because the only reason you'd want it for is the aspd for pierce spam, not flee.

 

I'm emphasizing this point.  ASPD for a knight, is about 80% for skill spamming of skills that are affected by aspd, and 20% reducing a few extra hits, though this will die out almost immediately as enemies start hitting you almost 50% of the time, even at 100 AGI and flee gears, and you've only got one monster on you, not even a mob.  Granted we're not quite there yet, but Renewal is using classic monster stats + renewal hit/flee/damage/defense rules, so you'll still see flee reduced in value quite quickly post-70 due to the bonus to hit monsters get up front.

 

As for Int...30 is the maximum I ever go with for a Knight build.  More room for other stats, Vit or Str especially.  That could work, but I would have to agree that more Vit or Str will net you better overall killing ability (I'd go STR personally).


Edited by Ignasia, 27 July 2017 - 02:31 PM.

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#6 Oroch1

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:39 PM

you're wasting points in agi dex and int, why do you have 42 int when knight don't need a single point? you're spamming woe blue pots, you do not need int. 
what's the point of 60 agi if you're taking hit anyways? aspd increase is not huge, you have 179 aspd which is more than enough with BB builds at 27 base agi and 54 base dex. 

what's the point of 70 dex when 60(54+6 with bouns) is enough to hit all mobs? 

why do you only have lv5 2h mastery when 2h is your most used weapon?
why do you have 10/10 hp recovery when you're almost always 50% weight or more when grinding due to carrying pots/loots, as this will NEVER become active EVER while above 50% weight.

 

these are just few problem i'm pointing out for ya. 

you have the knowledge of a classic knight, not a revo-classic knight. 

 

Dude.

 

> Bonus dex? What the -_-. 60 Base is fine though.

> I agree on the 5->10 Twohand Mastery. It is a MUST since base damage.

> In relation to HP Recovery, it also increases the amount of healing through HP consumables. I do not know exactly how much it increases per point of skill.

Provoke 10 is not needed though, put those 5 points into 2Hand Mastery.


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#7 Ignasia

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:48 PM

Hp Recovery is 10% per point.  So HP Recovery 10 = +100% from pots.


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#8 Ashuckel

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 02:58 PM

extra lvls on 2h Mastery is w/e, the damage gain is barelly noticeable. You can put if you have nowhere else to.

HP Rec 10 is mandatory for increased healing from items.
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#9 Krispin2

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 03:06 PM

Never thought I'd see the day people are advocating for more points in a weapon mastery skill.

It doesn't benefit from skill multipliers, it doesn't benefit from elemental modifiers, it doesn't benefit from card modifiers.

Five skill points to do 20 more damage with bowling bash, woooooow.

Even if everything else is more or less a waste of the points, the last five points of 2h sword mastery is somehow even worse.


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#10 Ashuckel

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 05:19 PM

It doesn't benefit from skill multipliers

 

It does

 

it doesn't benefit from elemental modifiers,

 

It does

 

it doesn't benefit from card modifiers.

 

Does/doesnt. Racial/Element/Size/ATK% cards/effects doesnt, Ranged%, Crit$, Skill% does.

 

 


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#11 Hywelbane

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:03 PM

@Smokedizzy

 

You're spamming woe blue pots, you do not need int, why do you have 42 int when knight don't need a single point?

 

I haven't played Ragnarok for years... so when I think of spamming consumables I think of Mastella or Condensed White Pots... I'm not familiar with this concept you said about WoE Blue Pots, could ou enlight me please ^^.

 

What's the point of 60 agi if you're taking hit anyways?

 

ASPD, Flee and Chain Hitting Pierce.... that worked on my days xD Thought would work too ^^.

 

What's the point of 70 dex when 60(54+6 with bouns) is enough to hit all mobs? 

 

I want to MvP with this build, and from my past experience, some Boss had really high Flee, that's why.

 

Why do you only have lv5 2h mastery when 2h is your most used weapon?

 

My main goal is to use Poleaxe - One Handed Weapon with a Shield... but, even when i switch to 2HW the points i get from mastery as REEEALLY low (Ashuckel confirmed that).


Why do you have 10/10 hp recovery when you're almost always 50% weight or more when grinding due to carrying pots/loots, as this will NEVER become active EVER while above 50% weight.

 

As Ignasia said, for the bonus on recovering itens ^^.

 

@All

 

Following the advices, I changed a bit the build, look:

 

STR: 81 + 19 = 100

AG: 28 + 3 = 31

VIT: 90 + 10 = 100

INT: 6 + 2 = 8

DEX: 53 + 7 = 60

LUK: 1 + 4 = 5

 

Headgear: Helm (Cramp), Fin Helm and Iron Cain

Weapon: Poleaxe (Zipper Bear/Hydra) and 2H-Sword/Claymore

Armor: Chain Mail (Pecopeco / Pasana etc)

Shiled: Buckler (Thara etc)

Garm: Muffler/Manteau (Raydric)

Footgear: Boots (Matyr)

Accessory: Ring x2 (Mantis/Tarou)

 

Buff: Berserk Potion

 

With that you'd get:

 

HP: 19147 (+2011)

SP: 333 (-104)

 

SP Regen: 5 (-7)

ASPD: 166.3 (-1) (182 2H Quicken - 4)

HIT: 334 (-12)

FLEE: 231  (-29)

 

With the changes I'd get more Attack Power, More HP (and immunity to conditions right?), and lose a bit of SP, SP Regen, almost no ASPD Loss (Really surprised here) and some minor Hit/Flee loss... I think the end trade off was worth it ^^.

 

On a complementary note... I'm still kind of lost on the renewel mecanic that makes lower attack 4 slot carded weapons weaker than high attack fewer slots carded ones.... Can someone explain to me how that works... and in that way, which card should i put in my future Poleaxe? probably diferent cards for PvE and PvP, unless Zipper is really ok in each case ^^.

 

Thanks in advance for all the help guys!

 


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#12 Ignasia

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 07:59 PM

Renewal versus Classic damage:

 

Classic Damage Equation (http://irowiki.org/classic/Attacks)

 

Renewal Damage Equation (http://irowiki.org/wiki/ATK)

 

 

A few things to take note:

 

Critical Damage in Classic/Pre-Renewal is separate damage, where hard defense = 0.  Critical Damage in Renewal is a modifier of damage of 1.4* making it infinitely more useful for damage stacking with certain skills and auto-attack builds.  Enemy Defense and Vit defense is substantially lower in Renewal mechanics.

 

Bonus damage from skill modifiers, card modifiers, etc. are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH less effective in Renewal.  MUCH, as they do not factor in Stat based damage. 

 

Renewal factors in Level in your damage, which somewhat makes up for the lack of Strength bonus damage, though if you happen to have Meg's (unlikely, but for the sake of argument), Classic damage outstrips Renewal due to the bonus damage applied by Strength at 200+ and the % card modifiers affecting your main stat damage output.  Essentially Classic means you do far better with MUCH higher Strength, while Renewal offers you more with more evened out stats.  That said, your main damage stat does offer that 0.5% bonus damage to your weapon attack, and the bonus damage for upgrades is substantially higher in Renewal, especially for level 3 and 4 weapons, which typically have much much higher base attack.

 

So given these factors, you get much more, especially early on, and up to level 99, out of a stronger weapon.  By the time we see expansions, and weapons with over 200 attack power, we'll see even more output from particular weapons.

 

Thus, level 1 weapons, even with 4 cards, are less effective, because effectively % cards will output about 20~80% of the value they applied in original RO, where they applied 100% of their value...all depending on the strength of your weapon.  So with a level 1 weapon with low attack, you're getting only about 20~30% out of those cards in terms of your overall damage output.  While with a stronger 120~200 base attack level 3 or 4 weapon, you're getting closer to that 80% of total damage output, and more value out of your cards.

 

Meaning a Pike is better served with ATK cards, sadly, unless you upgrade it to +12~15 (no seriously, +15 as a starting point if we're comparing to a Zipper Bear, +12 if we're comparing to a Wolf), as that 20% bonus damage from a Caramel card is more like 5% bonus damage if you're at the safe upgrade, and closer to about 10% if you're around +12, and about 15% of your total damage if you're about +15.  These are rough estimates from playing with the calculator in times past for Renewal purchases, and with in-game testing.

 

So you really want level 3 and 4 weapons in Renewal to deal high damage, while you want level 1 and 2 weapons with lots of cards in Classic with a TON of points in your main damage stat for high damage.

 

Oh right, one last point.  You generally want to stray away from Level 3~4 weapons with high attack at certain values of Strength (like the Doom Axe), because that bonus attack power is not considered Weapon Attack, but instead Equipment Attack, and isn't affected by the Strength modifier.


Edited by Ignasia, 27 July 2017 - 08:00 PM.

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#13 Hywelbane

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 08:41 PM

@Ignasia

 

WoW! A lot of crazy useful information! Thanks a bunch \o/

 

If i got it right Crit Builds in renewal are better than before too, maybe I'll try an Assassin later ^^.

 

On a side observation.... +15 Upgrade?!?!? I thought +10 was the max and crazy hard to get .... Gosh... I lost so much content xD~

 

I think I'll go with this build from the last post and learn as much as I can before LK kicks in ^^.


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#14 Ignasia

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Posted 27 July 2017 - 08:57 PM

@Ignasia

 

WoW! A lot of crazy useful information! Thanks a bunch \o/

 

If i got it right Crit Builds in renewal are better than before too, maybe I'll try an Assassin later ^^.

 

On a side observation.... +15 Upgrade?!?!? I thought +10 was the max and crazy hard to get .... Gosh... I lost so much content xD~

 

I think I'll go with this build from the last post and learn as much as I can before LK kicks in ^^.

 

+20 is the upgrade maximum in Renewal.  You'll definitely want to check this page out then:

 

http://irowiki.org/w...finement_System

 

EDIT:

Oops, I overplayed the potential of a level 1 weapon....scratch that, +16~20 is the only time there's any real output and you'll really get anything out of cards that amounts to any real value, but the point still stands, due to the nature of the new system, a 20% boost from a card will actually carry about 3~18% at best of your overall damage output depending on your weapon's base attack (and refinement bonuses).


Edited by Ignasia, 27 July 2017 - 09:06 PM.

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#15 Smokedizzy

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 01:06 AM

Hp Recovery is 10% per point.  So HP Recovery 10 = +100% from pots.

are you sure about this? I didn't notice a different when spamming pots with lv10 or lv1(2 different character) skill learned. Is this bugged for me?

 

 


Edited by Smokedizzy, 28 July 2017 - 01:34 AM.

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#16 Ashuckel

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 01:49 AM

skill% gear affects your whole attack. As does ranged% and crit dmg%.

What affects exclusively wATK and eATK is racial, element, size and atk%
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#17 Dukeares

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:12 AM

Hybrid suppose to be a fun class to begin with...  Meh...some how reading this post i get the innuendo that hybrid has now loss it Glory day... So sad


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#18 DFreak423

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 07:18 AM

Pole Axe[1] is nice, but Gungnir[2] is better, imo.


Edited by DFreak423, 10 August 2017 - 07:18 AM.

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#19 Ashhen

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 01:45 PM

I would put the rest of those int on luk since on renewal for every 3 luk  you get attack damage I think if I am not wrong


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#20 trljason

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 02:52 PM

are you sure about this? I didn't notice a different when spamming pots with lv10 or lv1(2 different character) skill learned. Is this bugged for me?

 

http://irowiki.org/w...ase_HP_Recovery


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