Shadow skills : April Fool, Shadow walk - Thief Class - WarpPortal Community Forums

Jump to content


Photo

Shadow skills : April Fool, Shadow walk


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Kristof3195

Kristof3195

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 575 posts
  • LocationAmerica, Washington DC
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 11 August 2017 - 11:31 AM

Hello comunity. I want to hear your opinions on stuff I thought about recently ( just weirdo things from a troll. Jk )

 

1. April Fool 

- The skill seems pretty useless no matter how I look at it. First of all why it is useless it works only on physical / magical damage it does not affect elements at all.

Lets say it would affect elements as a filler skill it just reduces dmg and until I finish my combo the effect wears off usualy.

 

My Idea - keep the idea of the debuff but instead of lowering the enemys dmg we would ignore a certain % of armor for X Y seconds of the enemy and a higher cooldown ( so people wont misunderstand what I am aiming for is not a 1 minute duration but more likey a 3-5 sec duration debuff with 10-25% armor reduction )  just for the ninja ( if its possible to implement it like that )

 

Reason - Its like we are a assasin class our job is to swiftly try to kill a high priority target find their weaknesess in their armor and take advantage of them.

 

2. Shadow Walk

This one is just more likely an idea that why not enabling this skill again. The only thing that should be kept blocked is Burrow

 

Maybe revamp Shadow Walk in a way that at a certain range the enemy can see you or something like that? But other then that I cant see a honest reason why it should be kept blocked when there are far worse skills active in pvp *cough* weave *cough* 

 

Jokes aside id like to hear your opinion if this is just complete bullcrap what I wrote and that I should go home crying or does it sound at least somehow legit? 

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english if there are some mistakes :) 


  • 0

#2 Bustincaps

Bustincaps

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 129 posts
  • LocationUnited States
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 12 August 2017 - 07:43 PM

I disagree with all suggestions. Shadow walk was removed from PvP because it was too game breaking. Secondly, Assassins already have some of the highest single target DPS in the game; adding an ignore defense skill would be gamebreaking too, considering the class can also be built tanky (all classes can). I honestly think that the class is currently one of the most balanced and versatile in the game and needs bug fixing rather than buffing/nerfing.


  • 1

#3 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:01 PM

As a former ninja the class is well balanced but with the rise of a new meta it put's the class to shame. It's gimmicks outside of evade is ninja mode, this mode when switching in and out it bypasses hard knockdowns like Swords Dance Cross Cut, broom jab,  gust slash, mist vanish,etc this gave this class escape opportunities unlike savage's super armor chance the ninja mode toggle gimmick requires a brain, it also can cut rolling animations short so faster roll recoveries, it's not written it's description and could probably be a bug, much like chain combo's on archer's the bug is welcomed. There skill set is pretty bad outside of wood rush and cross blades the class is basically a hindrance in a team. There are some game breaking bug's for pvp on ninja, untransforming when hit by impact presser/infinite kicking roots you indefinitely, that needs to be fixed asap, A possible buff could be revert perfect strike's damage back to original damage output of 8x final damage so with 600% crit it can hit a possible 48x final damage on 6 players, with a 20 second cooldown.
 
TLDR: Class suck's in group pvp, lacks synergy with other member's, fix ninja transform stuck bug, revert perfect strike.


  • 0

#4 Bustincaps

Bustincaps

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 129 posts
  • LocationUnited States
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 12 August 2017 - 09:17 PM

As a former ninja the class is well balanced but with the rise of a new meta it put's the class to shame. It's gimmicks outside of evade is ninja mode, this mode when switching in and out it bypasses hard knockdowns like Swords Dance Cross Cut, broom jab,  gust slash, mist vanish,etc this gave this class escape opportunities unlike savage's super armor chance the ninja mode toggle gimmick requires a brain, it also can cut rolling animations short so faster roll recoveries, it's not written it's description and could probably be a bug, much like chain combo's on archer's the bug is welcomed. There skill set is pretty bad outside of wood rush and cross blades the class is basically a hindrance in a team. There are some game breaking bug's for pvp on ninja, untransforming when hit by impact presser/infinite kicking roots you indefinitely, that needs to be fixed asap, A possible buff could be revert perfect strike's damage back to original damage output of 8x final damage so with 600% crit it can hit a possible 48x final damage on 6 players, with a 20 second cooldown.
 
TLDR: Class suck's in group pvp, lacks synergy with other member's, fix ninja transform stuck bug, revert perfect strike.

 

I've seen plenty of good Ninjas put down solid crowd control in group pvp and the class has plenty of ground-locking potential (which would be what you're referring to...synergy) as long as you're not spamming dagger at foolish times. Just like any other class, how well you play in a group setting depends on your own game knowledge just as much as your class' kit. A good player can make their kit work in group settings. Ninja does very well with M.Speed, and that stat weighs heavy in the current meta. By no means is the class op, but it's not weak either. That's exactly what we want, isn't it? My only complaint is the FPS lag that switching in and out of your transformation creates after 10-15minutes of playing. This affects all players around you and does not go away until you either relog or reclient.


  • 0

#5 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:35 AM

There is a reason why there are little to no endgame ninjas in 85 bsq. A lack of doesnt mean none at all that is basically setting the standard really low if any sort of group play/lock for pvp is counted as synergizing. Ninja ground combo potential revolves around being near a wall, elsewhere it becomes situational like not using dagger or ambush. While savage has plenty of crowd control at perfect cooldowns to rotate indefinitely. The class's lack of synergy should just be made up with some more damage and ofc fixes for current bugs. If this is what we want then alot of classes need nerfs... which is why it needs some sort of buff.
  • 1

#6 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 13 August 2017 - 01:31 AM

Currently Ninja gets outshined alot by other classes, as Apocryphos said, this is one of the reasons why you see so less Ninjas in endgame.

 

Switching to Ninja form is a pain with the current lags and delays at this server, and their Damage is way too low to be usefull in BSQ, then again they got hit hard by the ms cap because they cant outrun their opponent anymore. since every few weeks new op ms items get released every lv 1 char can hit the ms cap. this class is a wreck currently. Back then Ninja was able to perform well in BSQ now its all about Mages, Drakans, Archers and with the current buffs Warriors do also alot better than Ninjas.

 

Didnt understand why Ninja got a lower base dmg boost in the last update than mages and than savage. Every physical class should just get a 1.5 multiplikator because non is in comparision as overpowered as the magical classes. Also Savage outshines Ninja in any way. They have now same MS speed, way more stunes and a 30% permanent Superarmor thanks to Crazy Soul.

 

Ninjas skills need to do more impact in BSQ and the server needs to get rid of the delays / lags. Turning into Ninja  Form and leaving it, takes way too long when the server is laggy.


  • 0

#7 Bustincaps

Bustincaps

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 129 posts
  • LocationUnited States
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:19 AM

There is a reason why there are little to no endgame ninjas in 85 bsq. A lack of doesnt mean none at all that is basically setting the standard really low if any sort of group play/lock for pvp is counted as synergizing. Ninja ground combo potential revolves around being near a wall, elsewhere it becomes situational like not using dagger or ambush. While savage has plenty of crowd control at perfect cooldowns to rotate indefinitely. The class's lack of synergy should just be made up with some more damage and ofc fixes for current bugs. If this is what we want then alot of classes need nerfs... which is why it needs some sort of buff.

 

Yeah, the reason is that everyone is playing a mage or drakan because they're brokenly op (excluding Sorcerer to some extent, especially outside of multi). And if being able to combo and crowd control effectively with your team in a group setting isn't what you are referring to, I literally have no idea what you're talking about. Ninjas can lock entirely without the use of a wall and it's not hard to combo without the use of 1 or 2 skills for the sake of team play. All classes have to do it, especially Savages and Warriors (Headspin and all tornado skills are one of their main sources of DPS for most players). All gameplay is situational, unless you're someone that runs around using 2 skills like Shootdown and Sniping, which you are... no offense, I've just seen your gameplay videos and that is my observation.

 

 

Currently Ninja gets outshined alot by other classes, as Apocryphos said, this is one of the reasons why you see so less Ninjas in endgame.

 

Switching to Ninja form is a pain with the current lags and delays at this server, and their Damage is way too low to be usefull in BSQ, then again they got hit hard by the ms cap because they cant outrun their opponent anymore. since every few weeks new op ms items get released every lv 1 char can hit the ms cap. this class is a wreck currently. Back then Ninja was able to perform well in BSQ now its all about Mages, Drakans, Archers and with the current buffs Warriors do also alot better than Ninjas.

 

Didnt understand why Ninja got a lower base dmg boost in the last update than mages and than savage. Every physical class should just get a 1.5 multiplikator because non is in comparision as overpowered as the magical classes. Also Savage outshines Ninja in any way. They have now same MS speed, way more stunes and a 30% permanent Superarmor thanks to Crazy Soul.

 

Ninjas skills need to do more impact in BSQ and the server needs to get rid of the delays / lags. Turning into Ninja  Form and leaving it, takes way too long when the server is laggy.

 

 

The server is not laggy. You're laggy because you live in Germany..............................................................................................................

 

The advantage that Ninja has over Savage is its ability for quick, easy, reliable catches in many different ways. It has multiple auto-target skills along with a superarmored stun, Sky Pen, and so on along with the same standard RP catch as Savage. They can also lock just like Savage with or without a wall, regardless of what the poster above you thinks. While Savage has better crowd control, it doesn't have the DPS to be a real threat in multi as far as killing potential goes unless they have the time to sit around you and stunlock until you die... which is unlikely without being interrupted by an enemy teammate. The reality here is that Shadows are outclassed, but not by Savages, Warriors, or really any of the normal "balanced" classes. They're outclassed by the broken mage classes and drakans.... and so is everyone else. This thread quickly turning into a "nerf mages and drakans" thread basically tells me that there is no problem with Shadow itself.

The server is not laggy. You're laggy because you live in Germany..............................................................................................................

 

The advantage that Ninja has over Savage is its ability for quick, easy, reliable catches in many different ways. It has multiple auto-target skills along with a superarmored stun, Sky Pen, and so on along with the same standard RP catch as Savage. They can also lock just like Savage with or without a wall, regardless of what the poster above you thinks. While Savage has better crowd control, it doesn't have the DPS to be a real threat in multi as far as killing potential goes unless they have the time to sit around you and stunlock until you die... which is unlikely without being interrupted by an enemy teammate. The reality here is that Shadowsare outclassed, but not by Savages, Warriors, or really any of the normal "balanced" classes. They're outclassed by the broken mage classes and drakans.... and so is everyone else. This thread quickly turning into a "nerf mages and drakans" thread basically tells me that there is no problem with Shadow itself.


  • 0

#8 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 13 August 2017 - 09:43 AM

Why don't you enlighten everyone on this miracle combo on ninja that has decent dps,doesn't launch or knockdown, inescapable, doesn't need a wall, and isn't based on situation. Not exactly a nerf mages/drakon thread but what makes them nice in group pvp is pretty clear, the most recent additions of class modifiers are the first steps in getting a balancing If you think ninja is balanced then, your baseline for balance differs from mine, IMO it's not balanced when over 3/4 the cast is considered "overpowered" considering baseline of ninja being balanced.  It's been stated over and over that the mage / drakon classes are heavily invested so nerfing them is a sensitive matter for the team, so they're compromising by buffing physical classes with class modifiers as a first step. Archer's are the closest at being balanced compared to them, they have plenty of dps  that can synergize well either in utility and damage (Senti) or just pure damage (Destroyer). Overlord and Ninja are the farthest, I'd consider those as under powered, Dragoon would be decent if they had barricade and roach life back in bsq. Rather than nerfing 4-6 classes buffing to make 3 classes more relevant would be the a better approach. But we're gradually getting off topic here, clearly the class has conflicting opinions, but it doesn't change the fact ninja is irrelevant in endgame bsq where the the cast mainly consists of archer's/mages/drakons that's over 1/2 the cast, 


Edited by Apocryphos, 13 August 2017 - 09:59 AM.

  • 0

#9 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:15 AM

Dont know if bustincaps pvps but pretty much every class can perma lock without a wall and what has that even to do with the topic?


Aka your class deals enough damage if you lock long enough? Really? Good attitude for balancing classes. Every class who can perma lock should make use out of it and just do it long enough till you dealt the damage you want to deal. Really?

And the dps in Ninjas perma lock is very low since you need to wait for the opponent to stand up after mistvanish.

Also before judging other peoples gameplay look at your own if you are the person who pvps in your youtube videos i wouldnt dare to complain about anyone.

And Savsge does outshine ninja. Moonwalk, crazy soul, claw fishing and headspin together with all the stuns is way more op than all the skills ninja has.

Savage might have lower damage per second, indeed, but therefor way longer combos and a way bigger crowd control. Dealing with 4 peiple at once isnt a problem in a savages combo which makes it op in 1o1, group pvp and BSQ.

Edited by TurtleTuber, 13 August 2017 - 10:35 AM.

  • 0

#10 Bustincaps

Bustincaps

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 129 posts
  • LocationUnited States
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 16 August 2017 - 08:51 AM

Why don't you enlighten everyone on this miracle combo on ninja that has decent dps,doesn't launch or knockdown, inescapable, doesn't need a wall, and isn't based on situation. Not exactly a nerf mages/drakon thread but what makes them nice in group pvp is pretty clear, the most recent additions of class modifiers are the first steps in getting a balancing If you think ninja is balanced then, your baseline for balance differs from mine, IMO it's not balanced when over 3/4 the cast is considered "overpowered" considering baseline of ninja being balanced.  It's been stated over and over that the mage / drakon classes are heavily invested so nerfing them is a sensitive matter for the team, so they're compromising by buffing physical classes with class modifiers as a first step. Archer's are the closest at being balanced compared to them, they have plenty of dps  that can synergize well either in utility and damage (Senti) or just pure damage (Destroyer). Overlord and Ninja are the farthest, I'd consider those as under powered, Dragoon would be decent if they had barricade and roach life back in bsq. Rather than nerfing 4-6 classes buffing to make 3 classes more relevant would be the a better approach. But we're gradually getting off topic here, clearly the class has conflicting opinions, but it doesn't change the fact ninja is irrelevant in endgame bsq where the the cast mainly consists of archer's/mages/drakons that's over 1/2 the cast, 

 

Like I stated before, all gameplay is situational for all classes. Most class locks don't have high DPS, and for the sake of fair play, they shouldn't anyway. Secondly, your argument here mentions exactly what I just mentioned above: the class isn't weak or unbalanced, but rather a few classes (also named in your response) are overpowered. While I do see the logic of buffing the other classes rather than nerfing those overpowered few, it seems to me like some of the classes you are saying should be buffed and brought to god tier with those few are actually taking nerfs (refer to your recent Archer thread). Something to keep in mind as well is that people don't just pick the most op classes to play, but also the easiest. Look at your top 3 most common for BSQ/Empo and you'll find that they're all extremely easy to play while still maintaining some of the highest DPS in the game along with heals in most cases. This is a flawed logic, where the easy classes are actually the strongest and the more challenging classes have no reward for you learning to play them properly. Ninja isn't exactly what I'd consider a "hard" class, because it's pretty versatile, but it's not something I can see a beginner jumping into when they can just pick Invoker for example with a client-sided instant freeze, heals, op debuffs, and a 1-button DPS method (X). The issue I mentioned before (some of the bugs and glitches that the class has) also make playing it harder, less fluent, and just less tempting to build in general. Why make a class that has a bug causing you and everyone around you FPS lag after using your ninja switch enough times? From what I've seen so far, all the recent balances do is bring the non-god tier classes more in balance with each other. There have been both buffs and nerfs to them and the changes aren't bringing them any closer to the classes that are constantly complained about as being too strong.  Yes, one could argue that they've received a damage boost, but that is really just the tip of the iceberg. The only thing that has closed that gap so far are the nerfs that have taken place to those classes, which I think you're forgetting about.

 

In the end, if Ninja getting buffs is really necessary... I don't see April & Shadow Walk as being the needed buffs. I'm assuming everyone would more appreciate buffs on skills that weren't previously complained so hard about that they got removed from pvp all together lol. I'm sure we can at least agree on that, right? :P

 

 

Dont know if bustincaps pvps but pretty much every class can perma lock without a wall and what has that even to do with the topic?


Aka your class deals enough damage if you lock long enough? Really? Good attitude for balancing classes. Every class who can perma lock should make use out of it and just do it long enough till you dealt the damage you want to deal. Really?


Also before judging other peoples gameplay look at your own if you are the person who pvps in your youtube videos i wouldnt dare to complain about anyone.

 

I just don't even understand why you (Turps) aren't banned on both of your accounts on this forum yet. You contribute nothing but hate. Ninja is your main class and you've barely contributed any points besides: the server is too laggy; you don't like the mspeed cap; you don't like new mspeed items; you think Ninja is weaker than Savage and both Mage classes; Ninja is outshined by some other classes; Savage has good crowd control.


Edited by Bustincaps, 16 August 2017 - 08:54 AM.

  • 0

#11 TurtleTuber

TurtleTuber

    Amateur Blogger

  • Members
  • 327 posts
  • Playing:Nothing

Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:07 AM

dont know why you think im Turps and i dont even main Ninja, my main is a Dragoon. And I am not alone with not liking the ms speed cap and the other stuff you mentioned. so before you start to cry around search some arguments that are valid at least.


  • 0

#12 Popcorn

Popcorn

    Woodie-Holic

  • Dragon Saga Staff
  • 5516 posts
  • LocationGermany, Europe, Earth, Milky Way, Universe
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:28 AM

And I am not alone with not liking the ms speed cap 

 

On our end we are through this discussion. The cap stays and the reasons for it have been explained several times. This is the last time I warn you about using it to start drama.


  • 0

#13 Precrush

Precrush

    Too Legit To Quit

  • Members
  • 1652 posts
  • Playing:Dragon Saga

Posted 16 August 2017 - 09:34 AM

I think april fools lowering defense for a few seconds seems like a good idea! It can be a quite a drastic debuff too provided it has a short duration and a decently long cooldown.

 

Same with shadow walk (and burrow, tho it is quite buggy), think it could very well be brought back to pvp with some drastic changes. Short duration, long cooldown. If you could go invisible to try suprise and nuke an opponent for a significant amount of damage that would instantly make the class fell more like what it's called.


Edited by Precrush, 16 August 2017 - 09:35 AM.

  • 0

#14 Apocryphos

Apocryphos

    Awarded #1 Troll

  • Members
  • 615 posts
  • LocationSan Diego
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 16 August 2017 - 10:35 AM

From what I see game is balanced for competitive pvp where the rules and restrictions are enforced by the game itself not some cooped up pvp room where the rules are set by the player's.  It's only natural people want the edge without being a hindrance to the team (that's their choice) and group pvp is where the game really shines since locks are only absolute in 1v1's. We'll whether its you calling it balanced or me calling it under-powered is only a matter on what it being compared to. Clearly it's under performing in endgame bsq for several reasons the class ninja lacked a ground lock with high dps just like destroyer which is why It'd need some form of burst just like destroyer's sniping, which in this case it'd be the old perfect strike and obviously the bug fixes for ninja mode for quality of life purposes.


Edited by Apocryphos, 16 August 2017 - 10:37 AM.

  • 0

#15 9851170220163549840

9851170220163549840

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 90 posts
  • LocationQueen City of South - Cebu, Philippines
  • Playing:Dragon Saga
  • Server:Vyvern

Posted 16 August 2017 - 06:27 PM

Just get the bugs and delays out! And I'm "kinda" good with the current state of being a ninja. Every MMO will always have an OP class/character every patch and then, it's just how you go with the gameplay and love your char. But really, them bugs and delays are annoying that I must agree to most of the arguments here.


  • 0

#16 testg

testg

    I made it Off Topic

  • Members
  • 97 posts

Posted 29 August 2017 - 02:49 PM

I think shadow walk should be enable in pvp with shorter duration and longer cd as to not be abuse.
This will help the class minorly but will be a great tool in the ninja skill set.

Suggest 10 second max duration with 40second cd and removal of movement speed reduction.

The same attribute of the skill should remain. Step on trap get discovered, mage weakness detection get discovered and othet certain aoe skill.

Time to see some variation again. I will cross my fingers.

Edited by testg, 29 August 2017 - 02:51 PM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users