20 replies to this topic

[borgahutt]

Hello all

Just a quick note to maybe start expanding the skill trees to be more pvm / pvp focused , Now it's all mushed together and then You can get a few unique skills to specify for pvp / pvm , it's great - maybe we could release a few more for more diverse builds

A huge topic I would like to raise is cleric flames !

These are becoming a joke - no I'm not saying it to bash clerics - my main is a cleric however they are creating a terrible 'spam' play style for most clerics I see in pvp / draconis peaks now. All they do is stand still and spam fires ! A very boring and bad way to play cleric , they usually use this way over any heals

Can flames be separated into pvp and pvm flames - kept the same for pvm (great help for levelling) and then heavily reduce them for pvp! Either make less able to summon - higher summon amount (only for pvp version) or simply increase the time in which it inflicts heals to the team

Most of these clerics are spamming 4 on each character and just standing there forever ! A very boring but I guess effective at this point way to play

This needs to be change imo as it's creating a very boring pvp - more skill / different builds in terms of Block should be available - not spam flames and anyone can survive

Thanks

[Feuer]

Clerics have been spamming flames for years, what's new. 

[Snuwfer]

I'd like to see the game reworked so you can't just use a bot in the middle of a war.. but :\

[Buffiies]

Flames/Bonfires shouldn't be the main healing, it should be the Cleric itself. One solution is to nerf flames quite a lot, so it's just a small helper.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

Edited by Buffiies, 17 August 2017 - 01:38 AM.

[Lijona]

They nerved the flames already some weeks ago... it is just half the power now.

Clerics didn't get anything else for that...

Buffs are nerved too... so are heals.

You just can't downgrade a char over and over without giving other options.

 

Especially for pvp... you get honor and clusters for healing. If you downgrade heals and flames, there is no way to finish pvp quests or get many clusters or honor.

Honestly I avoid pvp arenas with my cleric... it is not worth it at the moment. I better use other chars and get easy honor and cluster for killing players.

[borgahutt]

With the increase of summon gauge it's becoming even more so of a problem! I want cleric to be fun to play not just a spam of flames and you can stay alive

This is then forcing lots of fighting chars to get aoes to try destroy flames

[borgahutt]

They nerved the flames already some weeks ago... it is just half the power now.
Clerics didn't get anything else for that...
Buffs are nerved too... so are heals.
You just can't downgrade a char over and over without giving other options.

Especially for pvp... you get honor and clusters for healing. If you downgrade heals and flames, there is no way to finish pvp quests or get many clusters or honor.
Honestly I avoid pvp arenas with my cleric... it is not worth it at the moment. I better use other chars and get easy honor and cluster for killing players.

I don't quite remember them nerfing flames? Maybe bons? If they did it really isn't great anyway - I believe you can get 5 bons with a heal every 10 seconds - if placed correct that's a huge heal every 2 seconds (for everyone)

This should be the case with pvm! Pvm they are perfect but for pvp it's ruining the skill clerics used to use

Even to the point when some clerics including myself didn't even skill bonfires

[Buffiies]

I like what Feuer said in another thread, he has some cool ideas.

 

 

This is from FEUER!

 

Support Role:

 

Muse:

Cure: Minor Heal that removes a negative magic effect. [7.5% Max HP] fast cooldown.

Heal: A medium heal that removes a stack of wounded on use. [15% Max HP] medium cooldown. 

Ward: A medium protective bubble of temporary HP that protects the one it's cast on. [Replaces Mana Shield, same mechanics, but castable on target] medium cooldown.

 

Healer's Grace:

Grants 100% Chance to add 25% Healing received for 30 seconds when casting Cure.

Passive: Healing Received doubled.

 

Blessing of Protection:

Grants 25% Harmful status resist for 10 seconds on an ally only. Cooldown 5 seconds.

 

Karma:

[Requires Blessing of Protection]

Casting Blessing of Protection grants you Karma. 5% Harmful status resistance per stack, maximum 5 stacks.

 

Cleric:

Ray of Light: Call down a beam of Holy light to heal all allies within it's diameter. [AoE Heal, Medium Strength {10%}]

Hymn of Angels: A song that grants health over time [HoT, 2.5% : 1 second for 10 seconds]

Saving Grace: Protect a target from all damage for 5 seconds, but reduces their Defenses afterwards [10 seconds, 5 seconds of this debuff outside Saving Grace]. [Long CD 30 seconds]

 

Holy Ground: Protect all allies within the area with a bubble for 50% of your Max MP value. Lasts for 15 seconds. Cooldown 45 seconds.

 

Heavenly Fire: Copy of Salamander Flame + Mana Flame, only lasts 15 seconds, but heals every second for same amount. 1 Min cooldown. [Heals 10% HP+MP / second or 150%]

 

Graceful Return: Casting Saving Grace also grants you 1000 Critical Defense + 0.5% HP / second for 5 seconds.

Passive: Stun Resistance 20%

 

Siren Echoes: Casting Hymn of Angels and Holy Ground now increases your Block Rate by 15% for 10 seconds.

Passive: Maximum MP + 50%

Passive: Max MP +5 : 1 INT

 

Martyr: Sacrifice 99% of your Current HP to protect all allies from all damage for 5 seconds including yourself.

 

These kind of ideas can really give clerics new ways to support their team and not by just spamming those flames.

[Feuer]

1: Flames weren't nerfed weeks ago, that was months ago. Edit: Almost a year ago. Source: v626

2: Flames heal every 6 seconds when maxed, not 10.

3: Clerics should be active regardless of PvP or PvE, I don't want to be bored AFK during Dungeons as a Cleric anymore than a PvP Cleric want to be standing still relying on Flame heals and the periodic Grace or Integ being used.

 

... Just some minor correction. 

 

 

Edit: Please stop throwing PvE balance under the bus to justify your PvP proposals in general? As an example, the recent ranting and raving about AoE's being too strong in PvP ended up massively nerfing Dungeon players ability to handle the game modes expertly once they've earned their gear, learned the runs, and properly built. Clear Run times tripled if not more because of players using this method to argue for changes in PvP and it's really getting old. 

Edited by Feuer, 17 August 2017 - 04:09 AM.

[Cortiz]

I think the issue here is that, either.

 

-  Flames heal to much

-  Flames are destoryed to quickly, with AOE classes & can be spam summoned in the procces.

 

solution.

 

- Remove flames, both mana and health and make it simulair to Bonfire, (Perhaps large Bonfire)  where it restores both mana/health..with the effect of 5% over 10 seconds in 15 meter radius.      
        "while being immune to all effects such as burns & normal hits"

             Then put a cooldown on flames of atleast 15 seconds.

 

 

I also just want to throw this idea in here, I thought this was a good post worth mentioning.

https://forums.warpp...ics-imo-vision/

     

Edited by Cortiz, 17 August 2017 - 04:38 AM.

[iMatt]

Clerics have been spamming flames for years, what's new. 

 

correction: bad clerics!

good clerics use heals wisly, adjust from HoT to "damage reduction heal" etc and keep healing touch with cure up!

Yet, I have to agree on the flame part....stupidly broken

[Feuer]

..... I know how to play a Cleric, it's most definitely not rocket science. 

[watermelonnn]

go go go for it, majority of my cleric friends feel the same as they dont even use flames (some straight up removed em from their build) for the exact reason you stated. "its boring"

 

but also, if the fighters are half decent, flames wont save a fs.

[Phish]

I don't think skill trees should be separated directly for pvp and pvm, and to be honest I think flames are a little overrated in pvp. However in Draconis Peaks one side ends up with 2 support clerics it ends up being an extremely grueling battle as you usually don't have enough damage in a small group to overcome it, especially if the fight goes on for long.

[Feuer]

When it comes to DP, there are definitely worse problems than flames. Flames are vulnerable in small packs, because the less targets hit via an AoE, the less mitigation is applied and the more damage they take directly. Nah, in DP, the problem is the fact that Res doesn't have a target CD, kind of like how WoW has Sated and another debuff that doesn't allow you to be saved with High CD skills [Lay on Hands, Protection, Heroism, Time Warp etc]. Because Res can be used off CD so regularly, soon as you get 2 FS, the odds of taking them down without one ressing the other are insanely low, and heaven forbid they get a Res Mage with them.... That's 3 res's and you're not stopping them. 

 

In larger combat, like Wars, AA, CD, Flames are an issue because with 2FS + the entire Group, you have anywhere between 7-10 flames + all the player's avatars + any additional summons [beasts, traps, hawks, etc]. This makes the AoE mitigation kick into over-drive and the flames are only taking 1k'ish damage per AoE. With 10k HP on average, that's a long time to take down all the flames, assuming you don't die in the process, and you can prevent the FS[s] from spawning more [considering it's only on a 2.5s CD].

 

 

[carlosrose]

go go go for it, majority of my cleric friends feel the same as they dont even use flames (some straight up removed em from their build) for the exact reason you stated. "its boring"

but also, if the fighters are half decent, flames wont save a fs.

^ pretty much why I removed them on my cleric, boring, force you to stay in a spot since as soon as you move they vanish and even if i didnt play cleric as I do (lets just say "speed cleric") I wouldnt use them cuz heals are perfectly fine the way they are.

Anyway good luck trying to get them nerfed last time i made a topic like this i got told that flames were actually too weak and needed a boost

[Snuwfer]

If they're removed \ changed, do something about AOE damage as well then, and how easy it is to play an AOE class in PvP

 

I'd honestly like to see defence to damage mitigation reworked as well as AOE mitigation.. one or the other..

 

 

How about Knights taunts, as well as champions having them?

How about a knights taunt cool down timer?

Why aren't we discussing how broken raiders are? (My raider with 1 rune and two pieces of honor gear kills my 7\7 level 100 runed scout in 4 throwable dots, even if they're miss)

Why aren't we pushing the bourg\artisan buff?

Why aren't we pushing the fact that mages have an insanely high increased damage % , along with a 6 second re-peatable mana shield?

 

 

 

Just some things I'd like to see addressed by the community, and seriously pushed through. Flames are a problem but I haven't experienced them being big enough of an issue compared to other class balancing issues.

 

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that fights can take down an FS and flames don't matter... for a solid month I have not participated in a war that's been inside of JC without having an enemy team using a bot program with champions \ knights \ clerics spamming the same skills.. Integrity, heavenly grace, mana flames, taunt, AOE, debuff.. It's absurd that you can run a champion in the middle of a war with a 3rd party program, and put that champion\knight on a 500-700 charm set just to abuse the absurd over powered debuffs that are available... 

 

 

How about we start getting the ROSE team to figure out how to properly balance the game so you're not going to benefit from tossing a character inside JC with a bot and play your main one.. 

Nerfing flames\mana flames is only going to make the classes which need the most attention even more over powered.

 

Be careful how you do bonfire's as well, people are smart and can figure out simple game logic. I advise against doing an HP % \ sec if big bonfire's were introduced, keep it HP Recovery\Restore "xxxx" over 10 sec.

 

 

 

 

[Feuer]

I don't really think anyone is trying to get Clerics attention before the classes that actually need it. If they are then they've got another thing comin because I'll put my foot down. But just because other classes do need more attention than Clerics [let's face it, besides Raiders, Clerics are the most baby'd class in the game and get the vast majority of the buffs they cry about wanting], doesn't mean we aren't / shouldn't discuss what should be done eventually. 

 

Trust me, if Genesis ever decides to deliver on his statement that a balancing update will be coming after the Orlo update, I'll have more than plenty of things to point out. In-fact, I'm working right now on compiling a list of class + class item issues as we speak.

[meocutduoi]

If they're removed \ changed, do something about AOE damage as well then, and how easy it is to play an AOE class in PvP

 

I'd honestly like to see defence to damage mitigation reworked as well as AOE mitigation.. one or the other..

 

 

How about Knights taunts, as well as champions having them?

How about a knights taunt cool down timer?

Why aren't we discussing how broken raiders are? (My raider with 1 rune and two pieces of honor gear kills my 7\7 level 100 runed scout in 4 throwable dots, even if they're miss)

Why aren't we pushing the bourg\artisan buff?

Why aren't we pushing the fact that mages have an insanely high increased damage % , along with a 6 second re-peatable mana shield?

 

 

 

Just some things I'd like to see addressed by the community, and seriously pushed through. Flames are a problem but I haven't experienced them being big enough of an issue compared to other class balancing issues.

 

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that fights can take down an FS and flames don't matter... for a solid month I have not participated in a war that's been inside of JC without having an enemy team using a bot program with champions \ knights \ clerics spamming the same skills.. Integrity, heavenly grace, mana flames, taunt, AOE, debuff.. It's absurd that you can run a champion in the middle of a war with a 3rd party program, and put that champion\knight on a 500-700 charm set just to abuse the absurd over powered debuffs that are available... 

 

 

How about we start getting the ROSE team to figure out how to properly balance the game so you're not going to benefit from tossing a character inside JC with a bot and play your main one.. 

Nerfing flames\mana flames is only going to make the classes which need the most attention even more over powered.

 

Be careful how you do bonfire's as well, people are smart and can figure out simple game logic. I advise against doing an HP % \ sec if big bonfire's were introduced, keep it HP Recovery\Restore "xxxx" over 10 sec.

 

I just wonder why you always want to nerf all classes that you dont play =)))

[Feuer]

General All class issues + Item issues has been posted.

 

https://forums.warpp...pdatebalancing/

 

Enjoy. 

[borgahutt]

This post wasn't really about the whole balancing of Rose - more focusing on clerics , other balancing is another topic

However now with runes and stats able to become much higher now there are different problems arising - HOWEVER you cannot mistake this for the fact of some characters not being high runed / geared / all skill passive books to other chars with not a lot of the above

We wanted a way to increase character stats and different build types and we got it - I mean I would like to see more varied runes but we got what we wanted

It's now just down to the fact that some players have mastered their builds on all different classes. I have personally seen all classes be 'OP' if you would like to say that as they have mastered the build / play of that class. That's fine for me

However back to the flames , it is due to the fact of the aoe spread to all these '10 flames' which is making it hard and also the huge amount of constant heals it's giving to the cleric , it really shouldn't be like that and clerics should have more of a variety build again with block and offhand def etc . Not just spam spam flames and res all the time , which 90% of clerics are now doing