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Best build and equips for Re:Start Assassin


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#1 VastJeff

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:46 PM

I'm currently trying to build a double attack katar assassin with some crit as well.

 

My current stats are:

67 STR

90 AGI

1 INT

5 VIT

35 DEX

35 LUK

 

I'm currently wearing a clean undershirt/pantie combo, snakehead, +7 double bloody katar, +7 matyr boots, kobold clip, and thief figurine.  I don't have much money after buying the clip, but what should I be aiming for next?


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#2 RealGarion

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 10:53 PM

You should start with deciding what you are actually want.

You still can focus on a crit build or DA build, a hybrid however will fall behind in damage and survivalbility compared to a crit build  or DA build.

 

If you go with a crit build (the more expensive variant)  a high upped Katar with Paper Cards is your best bet and most likely another kobold clip.

 

If you go with a DA build you are pretty much good to go with a collection of +7 Katars with +% dam cards and besides that you are pretty much open for every other equip.

 

Anyway while pantie undershirt is a nice combo you should still aim for a element armor collection and a immunt ,since you most likely will never fell short on flee with 90 agi

 

If you however decide to stay on the hybrid route you are pretty ok with +7 Katars with +% dam cards and keep on wearing a snake hat since your crit would be considerable low compared to the DA proc chance anyway so a paper Katar wont be to much benificial for you.


Edited by RealGarion, 24 August 2017 - 10:55 PM.

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#3 6281170818170615897

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 09:53 AM

You should start with deciding what you are actually want.

You still can focus on a crit build or DA build, a hybrid however will fall behind in damage and survivalbility compared to a crit build  or DA build.

 

If you go with a crit build (the more expensive variant)  a high upped Katar with Paper Cards is your best bet and most likely another kobold clip.

 

If you go with a DA build you are pretty much good to go with a collection of +7 Katars with +% dam cards and besides that you are pretty much open for every other equip.

 

Anyway while pantie undershirt is a nice combo you should still aim for a element armor collection and a immunt ,since you most likely will never fell short on flee with 90 agi

 

If you however decide to stay on the hybrid route you are pretty ok with +7 Katars with +% dam cards and keep on wearing a snake hat since your crit would be considerable low compared to the DA proc chance anyway so a paper Katar wont be to much benificial for you.

 

This is false. Double attack takes priority over Critical Strike. Therefore, snake hat basically nullifies the "double critical value" from using a Katar when fighting low flee mobs. In other words, LUK value becomes equal to LUK value for other classes despite crit being 2x for Katar; ie 20% crit would equate to 10% of your overall attacks being crits, 50% being double hits. Higher flee = less double attacks and more crits.

 

So what is the purpose of being Hybrid then? Better vs High flee mobs. 1.4x-1.6x(cards) modifier to your non-DA attacks. Better hit% without adding dex as some of your misses will instead be criticals. Gear swap to essentially become a full critsin.

 

7x str Hybrid with higher luck will do more damage than an 80str pure DA with less luck. Kobold cards will give you more damage than Mantis cards either way. % damage and % crit depend on what you are fighting.

 

 

 


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 31 August 2017 - 10:48 AM.

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#4 DFreak423

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:26 AM

I almost like your stat spread, I would however prefer more dex and vit, even if it meant cutting luk and/or agi back a few points each. I would go with a goal of exactly 30 total luk and because I hate stun, especially on flee defense builds, a minimum 30 total vit and that will also give a little more resistance to being 1 shotted and get more out of your pots.


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#5 6281170818170615897

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 11:10 AM

I almost like your stat spread, I would however prefer more dex and vit, even if it meant cutting luk and/or agi back a few points each. I would go with a goal of exactly 30 total luk and because I hate stun, especially on flee defense builds, a minimum 30 total vit and that will also give a little more resistance to being 1 shotted and get more out of your pots.

 

What do you think of this stat build? I've been shuffling stats around for awhile to compare dps between Anolian and Skel Prison (high flee vs low) and this one seems to be the best balance between dps on high vs low flee mobs and HP

 

str:  71

agi: 90

dex:52

luk: 33

vit:  30 

 

0 stat points remaining.


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#6 RealGarion

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:17 PM

This is false. Double attack takes priority over Critical Strike. Therefore, snake hat basically nullifies the "double critical value" from using a Katar when fighting low flee mobs. In other words, LUK value becomes equal to LUK value for other classes despite crit being 2x for Katar; ie 20% crit would equate to 10% of your overall attacks being crits, 50% being double hits. Higher flee = less double attacks and more crits.

 

So what is the purpose of being Hybrid then? Better vs High flee mobs. 1.4x-1.6x(cards) modifier to your non-DA attacks. Better hit% without adding dex as some of your misses will instead be criticals. Gear swap to essentially become a full critsin.

 

7x str Hybrid with higher luck will do more damage than an 80str pure DA with less luck. Kobold cards will give you more damage than Mantis cards either way. % damage and % crit depend on what you are fighting.

 

I wonder if you even actuall have read what i said:

 

1. Crit builds are superior to DA Katar ,if you focus on them and have the correct equip

2. A hybrid is always inferior to both ,since you miss statpoints to focus on one part or the other

3. DA has priority that is correct, that means is blocks Crit downright ,assuming that 20% crit would be cut down to 10% is just wrong . Every 20% crit and every attack that would be a crit can be blocked by DA ... so it can happen that you never ever see a crit proc

4. 70 str is ok ... a hybrid is still inferior thats why i suggested to OP to choose to taker either a DA or  a Crit... not something in between.  Renewal is more forgiving ob builds than classic... that doesnt mean that hybrids to good or better than focused builds.

 

What do you think of this stat build? I've been shuffling stats around for awhile to compare dps between Anolian and Skel Prison (high flee vs low) and this one seems to be the best balance between dps on high vs low flee mobs and HP

 

str:  71

agi: 90

dex:52

luk: 33

vit:  30 

 

0 stat points remaining.

 

Either way to high dex or way to high luk ... focus on one . If you hit the point were you fight anolians as a Dex focused build you focus on grimmtooth ffs ... and not on slowly kill them with crit oder DA attacks ... you kill 5~20 at once not 5~20 one at a time if you want to get any exp OR focus on crit if you want to kill one at a time... but then at least with 2 Paper cards and more damage on single target than a DA Katar ... ...


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#7 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 02:37 AM

DA Katar with some cheap crit built into it is actually better than straight up no crits :v

a chance of doing 40% more damage on non DA procs is superior than any little more investment you could do in str/etc. Just make sure you have hit rate to hit the mobs reliably with DA.
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#8 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 04:13 AM

I wonder if you even actuall have read what i said:

 

1. Crit builds are superior to DA Katar ,if you focus on them and have the correct equip

2. A hybrid is always inferior to both ,since you miss statpoints to focus on one part or the other

3. DA has priority that is correct, that means is blocks Crit downright ,assuming that 20% crit would be cut down to 10% is just wrong . Every 20% crit and every attack that would be a crit can be blocked by DA ... so it can happen that you never ever see a crit proc

4. 70 str is ok ... a hybrid is still inferior thats why i suggested to OP to choose to taker either a DA or  a Crit... not something in between.  Renewal is more forgiving ob builds than classic... that doesnt mean that hybrids to good or better than focused builds.

 

 

Either way to high dex or way to high luk ... focus on one . If you hit the point were you fight anolians as a Dex focused build you focus on grimmtooth ffs ... and not on slowly kill them with crit oder DA attacks ... you kill 5~20 at once not 5~20 one at a time if you want to get any exp OR focus on crit if you want to kill one at a time... but then at least with 2 Paper cards and more damage on single target than a DA Katar ... ...

 

1. List a build that you feel is superior then. I have statcalc'd numerous builds.

  • 71str / 91agi / 30vit / 22dex / 57luk needs to wear 2x critdmg/crit cards to fight Anolian. You can't run 2x The Paper because it kills your hitrate and dps plummets. 2599 dps basic attack. 1598 dps grim tooth (because of the pitiful dex.)
  • 71str / 90agi / 30vit / 52dex / 33luk wears 1x sizedmg/atk and 1x mummy card to fight Anolian. 2819 dps basic attack. 3075 dps grim tooth.
  • Vs low flee monsters such as Skel Prisoner, it is an even wider spread. 3338 dps basic attack vs 2768 dps basic attack for pure crit sin.

2. A Hybrid is not always inferior to specialized builds in RO because they have better stat point efficiency. Typically, specialized builds can be better in certain areas and worthless in others while a Hybrid has more options in terms of cards to enhance their capabilities...and more stats. However it depends on how those stats are weighted. A 2h sword 70str / 70agi / 70vit / 54dex SAVD (hybrid) knight is better for PVM than a SVD with 90 base vit, but worse for PVP due to no stun-immunity. Stats are valued differently. SAVD has higher DPS in PVM with both auto attacks and bowling bash without reducing the bowling bash threshold to kill enemies; ie you can kill a Raydric mob with 2 BBs on both the SVD and SAVD, but the SAVD can cast 2 bowling bashes faster.

 

3,4. Law of large numbers. Don't spread misinformation with a poor understanding of basic math and statistics. Assuming 0 enemy luck. 1000 attacks. 50% double attack(DA). 50% crit (to make this simple). 500 attacks will be DA. Of 500 non-DA, 50% of those will crit = 250 crits. 250 crits = 25% of 1000. Of course you will see streaks over the short term. There will be times where you crit every time and other times where you double attack every hit. It's a wash over a long period of time thanks to the law of large numbers. It's a fallacy to even mention the fact that all 500 of your crit rolls COULD fall into the half of attacks that rolled to double attack because it is equally as probable that all of your crits may also roll across the 50% of attacks that do not double attack. Over a long period of time, they will average out to be exactly 50/50 split. 25% of your attacks will crit with 50% crit rate and 50% DA.

 

This is an advantage when dealing with high flee or high luck enemies. High flee will reduce your hit% and number of double attacks effectively increasing your crit %. A high luck enemy will reduce your crit %, but you still have a high enough hit% and reliable double attack to maintain damage output. Pure crit sin has no problem with high flee monsters, but is awful against high luck mobs. It is a tradeoff, but it is in the favor of the Hybrid because the Hybrid can take advantage of a Mummy card due to better gear flexibility and just flat out having more stats overall.


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 01 September 2017 - 04:27 AM.

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#9 RealGarion

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 04:52 AM

1. No i wont you missed point of GT ... You kill more than in enemy so with every enemy your dps increase over someone that kills one enemy at a time. The builds are btw all solid and all Hybrids not one is focused on either crit or da . A focused build is Always better at his task and another focused build is better as His Task a hybrid ist good on maybe different task and still infererior to specific task compared to a focused build

For 3/4
Large number all Shine and dandy and NOT applyable here this is NOT like throwing dices and See if one is 1 and one is 2 ... The outcome of one proc determines the effect of the other while while both are thrown if you ever want to call out on math use the correct formular and Not some Prime school Level mathetics applied wrong
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#10 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 05:20 AM

1. No i wont you missed point of GT ... You kill more than in enemy so with every enemy your dps increase over someone that kills one enemy at a time. The builds are btw all solid and all Hybrids not one is focused on either crit or da . A focused build is Always better at his task and another focused build is better as His Task a hybrid ist good on maybe different task and still infererior to specific task compared to a focused build

For 3/4
Large number all Shine and dandy and NOT applyable here this is NOT like throwing dices and See if one is 1 and one is 2 ... The outcome of one proc determines the effect of the other while while both are thrown if you ever want to call out on math use the correct formular and Not some Prime school Level mathetics applied wrong

 

I clearly showed that a hybrid with higher dex has a much higher GT damage output than a crit focused sin. Therefore it would also be superior at mobbing Anolian in this case and leveling faster as a result.

 

Correct. After hit check, DA check rolls first 50% chance leaving 500/1000 attacks that can crit at 50% crit rate or 250 crits. 25% of 1000 of your attacks will crit. What don't you understand about this.

 

Did I Hit? Yes or No.

...Did I Double Attack? Yes or No. (if Yes Do double attack, break) end.

...Did I Crit? Yes or No (if Yes do crit) end.

...Do Hit. End.

Did I Crit? Yes or No (if Yes do crit) end.

Do Miss. End.

 

1000 attacks check if Hit. 100% hit

...1000 attacks check if Double. 500 attacks result in a Double Attack.

...500 attacks check if Crit. 250 attacks result in a Crit.

...250 regular hits.

None Miss.

 

25% of your 1000 attacks will be crits

 

1000 attacks check if Hit. Lets say 80% chance to hit just for fun.

...800 attacks check if Double. 400 attacks result in a Double Attack.

...400 hit attacks check if Crit: 200 attacks result in a Crit.

...200 regular hits.

200 missed attacks check if Crit. 100 attacks result in a Crit.

100 Missed attacks...meaning luck pulled your chance to hit up to 90%

 

30% of your 1000 attacks will be crits

 

In cases where you have < 100% hit chance, you are correct in that you will not have half crit rate. It will actually be higher than half crit (ignoring enemy Luck)

In cases where you have 100% hit chance, ignoring enemy luck, your crit rate will be exactly half of your calculated crit rate with katar.

 

Luck also adds many other useful boosts to your stats that I will not even address.


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 01 September 2017 - 06:09 AM.

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#11 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 05:31 AM

wat
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#12 RealGarion

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 05:56 AM

Wrong
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#13 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:05 AM

Wrong

 

How does it feel to continuously prove that you do not know what you are talking about

 

Pure crit sins have always been trash and always will be compared to the other options. They either require too much investment in luck or they are way too inflexible with their equipment.


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 01 September 2017 - 06:05 AM.

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#14 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:22 AM

you are not too bright are ya :v


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#15 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 06:51 AM

you are not too bright are ya :v

 

Prove me wrong. All I hear is a bunch of talk with nothing to back it.

 

The only advantages pure crit sins have ever had is that they have a fairly concrete set of gear and crits used to ignore defense. They have never been the best in terms of damage output. Crits are now affected by defense so there's that as well.


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 01 September 2017 - 06:55 AM.

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#16 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 07:30 AM

DA Katar with some cheap crit built into it is actually better than straight up no crits :v
 


saying that crits are objectively bad is the misinformation.

And yes, at this moment, a pure crit will hardly surpass a DA katar with some crit (da katar with crit> pure da katar), basically because of current gear limitations, but it has the potential to do it once the person gets them, simply put, because you can surpass the static 50% chance to proc DA.

 


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#17 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 08:52 AM

saying that crits are objectively bad is the misinformation.

And yes, at this moment, a pure crit will hardly surpass a DA katar with some crit (da katar with crit> pure da katar), basically because of current gear limitations, but it has the potential to do it once the person gets them, simply put, because you can surpass the static 50% chance to proc DA.

 

 

I said that they are trash compared to the other options. Maybe this is a poor choice of words and overly blunt. Surely pure crit-sins do some things better than other sin builds. However, I firmly believe that in overall effectiveness, pure equip crit sins are the least effective compared to other sin builds for PVM.

 

Something cannot be objectively bad, since calling something bad is up to opinion. I will say that pure equip crit sins are comparatively weaker overall for PVM. I can say this confidently because I have played both and I have also ran the numbers for numerous scenarios between the different builds. DA/Crit Hybrid grossly out performs the pure equip crit sin due to better stat efficiency and card flexibility.


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 01 September 2017 - 09:01 AM.

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#18 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 08:57 AM

as of now, yep. Depending on the gear that starts kicking into the server/ updates received, crit will become more and more powerfull tho.

That is, while EDP isnt a thing. Once that happens it will take another bunch of crit gears for it to reach the top again.
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#19 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:01 AM

as of now, yep. Depending on the gear that starts kicking into the server/ updates received, crit will become more and more powerfull tho.

That is, while EDP isnt a thing. Once that happens it will take another bunch of crit gears for it to reach the top again.

 

What are some of the gears that come out that benefit pure crit and not da/crit in the future. I didn't play RO past Rebirth. I know there are some nutty weapons that we do not have available yet.


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#20 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:12 AM

You can check the thief section of renewal, mainly look at the DD crit guide, and you can see quite some options there.

One of the most impactfull ones i can tell you are Fallen Angel wings, with max Fatal enchants it gives 28% +1%/20 base luk crit damage and 10 crit rate on garment.
Plenty of crit and luk consumables, crit dmg gears, crit rate gears, etc. There's a reason as to why crit is the vastly superior option on renewal.
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#21 6281170818170615897

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:19 AM

You can check the thief section of renewal, mainly look at the DD crit guide, and you can see quite some options there.

One of the most impactfull ones i can tell you are Fallen Angel wings, with max Fatal enchants it gives 28% +1%/20 base luk crit damage and 10 crit rate on garment.
Plenty of crit and luk consumables, crit dmg gears, crit rate gears, etc. There's a reason as to why crit is the vastly superior option on renewal.

 

Depending on how far away these items are from coming to Re:start, there's not much point in planning builds around them. By that time, you will probably have paid stat resets and transcending 


Edited by 6281170818170615897, 01 September 2017 - 09:38 AM.

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#22 Ashuckel

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 09:57 AM

You dont need much for crit to equal/surpass other options while EDP isnt a thing. Thats basically because crit dmg gear will affect the entirety of your atk, while regular 20/15% dmg cards only affect weapon and equip attack. Without EDP, status atk is still a big portion of the class damage. Once edp kicks in, well, things will get a little bit stupid :v
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