44 replies to this topic

[Agitodesu]

Assuming death buffs are removed for bsq scene any buffs like this wouldn't be to that extent of tankyness.

[testg]

I dont see how the idea can promote tankiness? it seems to me popcorn will balance it by class. Player already can die from one or two combo from a lot of class like ovl, destro, summoner some better than other because of burst dmg. I think his aim is to make a useless stat useful or create variety in th current system while also benefit classes that may need it.Also it is simply dmg reduc when proc so system of nullyinf proc skills by complete block or evade is not touched. Sounds to me like some player here like fast kills one touch and die.

[Agitodesu]

Everything is hypothetical as popcorn said. It also depends on how you interpret it. Will popcorn make a final cap that neutralizes block. Or have block higher than the block attack. Or block attack higher than block. Or will a completely different system be made. Or no new system.

 

Sounds like to me that you've never seen someone with 300-500k hp walking around bsq healing. Try killing him with an overlord/des in 1 or 2 combos. WHy must you kill that player anyway? cause most likely they are the ones holding the flags in order to win. Unless you are just picking on understacked players cause you have nothing else to do.

 

It balances lobby and ew like I said, but in bsq it will lead to players being more tanky. So in all seriousness, you act as if players already die in 1 second currently and you need evade or this new system to live longer.

 

At best this would leave another gap between stacked and nonstacked players, but a gap that was supposed to be there in the first place since it worked before and now it's useless.

 

Unlike most players here I do have every class at 81+ bunch more in lower levels. I'm not a nutty person that lives off of one class and biased towards it and have nothing but nerfs to everything else and buffs to a single class. I have my reasoning and opinions. I've experienced being hyperstacked being understacked and so on.

Edited by Agitodesu, 11 September 2017 - 02:22 PM.

[testg]

Everything is hypothetical as popcorn said. It also depends on how you interpret it. Will popcorn make a final cap that neutralizes block. Or have block higher than the block attack. Or block attack higher than block. Or will a completely different system be made. Or no new system.

Sounds like to me that you've never seen someone with 300-500k hp walking around bsq healing. Try killing him with an overlord/des in 1 or 2 combos.

It balances lobby and ew like I said, but in bsq it will lead to players being more tanky. So in all seriousness, you act as if players already die in 1 second currently and you need evade or this new system to live longer.

At best this would leave another gap between stacked and nonstacked players, but a gap that was supposed to be there in the first place since it worked before and now it's useless.

Unlike most players here I do have every class at 81+ bunch more in lower levels. I'm not a nutty person that lives off of one class and biased towards it and have nothing but nerfs to everything else and buffs to a single class. I have my reasoning and opinions. I've experienced being hyperstacked being understacked and so on.

Sorry having trouble interpreting your point. I raise issue a lot with hp% deathbuff so i dont know what you are talking about check previous post. Also you have a lot of 81+ chara good for you so i assume u are a master o many class.

[Apocryphos]

Need I mention that I was the one who suggested that the PvP values for elements needed to be halved it's original amount so it's really a quarter of the pve damage that's enough reason to show I'm not against player's getting tankier, and I'm constantly pushing towards a game where element's is a secondary source of damage rather than a primary source. But with all these complaint's about not being able kill a certain class in a timely manner yielding to nerf's on heals, I'd like to proceed with more caution, instead of accepting whatever choices are being thrown challenge what's possible and actually provide something for the thread, since it's still theoretical at the moment. What's everyone's thoughts on having active dodging skills like weave?

Edited by Apocryphos, 11 September 2017 - 02:31 PM.

[Agitodesu]

The point is that the definition and intention of a block is to negate damage.

If you negate damage you inherently get tankier.

Thus if you implement such system it will promote the stat on release, making players try the stat and the ones that don't do anything with it will fall behind doing less damage.

So yeah apocryphos' point of promoting tankiness isn't false.

 

Whether it is lobby,bsq, and ew it will lead players to be slightly tankier.

Most complaints on skill balancing is based on bsq, not ew/lobby.

 

Having the deathbuffs and block correlate to a problem, but the main point still stands that it will lead to tankiness which is totally fine in lobby/ew but just not in bsq. Hopefully that clarifies your question on how it would promote tankiness.

[testg]

Need I mention that I was the one who suggested that the PvP values for elements needed to be halved it's original amount so it's really a quarter of the pve damage that's enough reason to show I'm not against player's getting tankier, and I'm constantly pushing towards a game where element's is a secondary source of damage rather than a primary source. But with all these complaint's about not being able kill a certain class in a timely manner yielding to nerf's on heals, I'd like to proceed with more caution, instead of accepting whatever choices are being thrown challenge what's possible and actually provide something for the thread, since it's still theoretical at the moment. What's everyone's thoughts on having active dodging skills like weave?

Caution is good but no need for caution in a theory. It will work or not. I think u mean caution during implemnts that is when is necessary. I hope you understand this difference. So moving on disagree with active skill like weave will not work because of combo and timing on many class.

[testg]

The point is that the definition and intention of a block is to negate damage.
If you negate damage you inherently get tankier.
Thus if you implement such system it will promote the stat on release, making players try the stat and the ones that don't do anything with it will fall behind doing less damage.
So yeah apocryphos' point of promoting tankiness isn't false.

Whether it is lobby,bsq, and ew it will lead players to be slightly tankier.
Most complaints on skill balancing is based on bsq, not ew/lobby.

Having the deathbuffs and block correlate to a problem, but the main point still stands that it will lead to tankiness which is totally fine in lobby/ew but just not in bsq. Hopefully that clarifies your question on how it would promote tankiness.

Sorry to confuse u i didnt need an explanation. I want to point out that by what popcorn was saying it can be intrepret as not promoting tankiness instead balance depending on class. Yes this is just hypothetical so hypothetically speaking it does not promote tankiness.

[Apocryphos]

I'll be cautious whenever it's a sensitive matter whether it's theoretical or not. Based on the reason you gave about active dodging skill's I can conclude you wanted to use active dodging skills in mid combo to counter. If not then I'm probably misinterpreting it. But the reason I suggested active dodging skills is so player's can dodge with there game play not there stats. As everyone previously posted evade shouldn't be a passive get out of jail lock card. Which is why I suggested an active skill that dodges/blocks. cause it actually requires player input, but let's just forget that and focus on what might supersede aim/evade instead.

Edited by Apocryphos, 11 September 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[Precrush]

Guess it took Popcorn to put the evade discussion on the right tracks

The way I see it there's two different options:
1.A new stat that does effect element damage, like suggested.

In this case I'd like to add that you could pair the stat dmg reduction % that we already have with it because that's also an undervalued stat. So basically the new evade would give you the % to succeed on the reduction, and the damage reduced would be a base + the damage reduction % you've got.


2.A new stat that doesn't effect element damage.

In this case I'd like it to reduce all of the normal damage if successful so that it's inpactful enough.

I think either option is good in their own ways.

[IncestBorn]

Guess it took Popcorn to put the evade discussion on the right tracks
 

 

<snip>

 

Leave the aim and evade were is at, with no action need it. They have enough problems as it is now, with broken in game play everywhere.

 

Only thing that need to be done is element resistant from level 79 below cause the lower you go the least resistance you have and actually do something about OP classes, and leave mediocre classes untouched.

[Precrush]

<snip>
 

A bit rude considering. But since you are kind of new here I'll forgive you.

Just wanted to point out that there's been many topics that have wanted evade back, and in each of them people have pointed out why it'd be a horrible idea and that it would have to work different. But that actually useful discussion never kicked off until Popcorn said it. Maybe people should pay more attention to what's being said, and less to who says it. That way we wouldn't have needed a new topic on evade every few months.

Edited by Dragonlark, 12 September 2017 - 06:44 AM.

[Fliederduft78]

The way I see it there's two different options:
1.A new stat that does effect element damage, like suggested.

In this case I'd like to add that you could pair the stat dmg reduction % that we already have with it because that's also an undervalued stat. So basically the new evade would give you the % to succeed on the reduction, and the damage reduced would be a base + the damage reduction % you've got.


2.A new stat that doesn't effect element damage.

In this case I'd like it to reduce all of the normal damage if successful so that it's inpactful enough.

I think either option is good in their own ways.

 

 

I'm with Precrush on this matter. Either way would be fine for me. This kind of stat could be useful in PVE boss fights too because not everyone is fully stacked and lowering the incoming damage could be a thing for at least those PVE players.

 

Edit: Plus I think Aim and Evade should get some kind of purpose back.
 

Edited by Fliederduft78, 11 September 2017 - 10:17 PM.

[IncestBorn]

I'm with Precrush on this matter. Either way would be fine for me. This kind of stat could be useful in PVE boss fights too because not everyone is fully stacked and lowering the incoming damage could be a thing for at least those PVE players.

 

Edit: Plus I think Aim and Evade should get some kind of purpose back.
 

 It was taken out for the reasons stated a million times, and the only purpose for both evade and aim is to be taken out of all equipment, since they have 0 purpose. Same with the junk element cards we have now, when everyone here praised how wonderfull it was (forum trolls), but when the gaming began, people started to leave the guilds never to be seen again.

 

The best dragon saga we ever had, it was called dragonica, when everything was almost neutralize, and then came the suggestions. Broken chain combo that has been worked on still today, old cards that were better than the ones we have now, cause you were able to actually resist all elements and now is a broken experience that one most pay for it.

 

Neither evade or aim should be consider.

[Popcorn]

 It was taken out for the reasons stated a million times, and the only purpose for both evade and aim is to be taken out of all equipment, since they have 0 purpose. Same with the junk element cards we have now, when everyone here praised how wonderfull it was (forum trolls), but when the gaming began, people started to leave the guilds never to be seen again.

 

The best dragon saga we ever had, it was called dragonica, when everything was almost neutralize, and then came the suggestions. Broken chain combo that has been worked on still today, old cards that were better than the ones we have now, cause you were able to actually resist all elements and now is a broken experience that one most pay for it.

 

Neither evade or aim should be consider.

 

Who is still talking about the old broken evade and aim systems? Are you really reading what people are talking about or is every of your posts just for the purpose of ranting?

 

If you scroll up a bit you should notice that a completely new system is discussed and not that the old evade or aim rate system will be brought back.

[Vossel]

How about bringing strength and inteligence and health into those new stats with a connection, so you have strength & intelligence scaling with the Damage block decrease and health scaling with the damage block

Of course physical dmg classes dont scale with intelligence and magical dmg classes dont scale with strength

Also if you wanna keep them as soulcrafts like the evade/aim right now, i would suggest you cant have both of them at the same time but can have the chance to have one of the stats on each part (currently you cant get aim rate on armor parts)  So you have to decide if you want to get tanky or if you want to deal dmg, or mix it up but you cant stack both as high as if you focus on one.

[zekiel6]

why u want a active block skill simular to weave? we can already see how overpowered it is on twin..

 

i support to dodge by arrow and jumping keys or to counter with skills. i do not need a extra stat for the purpose of blocking something. pvp is too rng anyways and people in BSQ are tanky enough.

[ThesisSpam]

I think some people are just bothered (including me) seeing a useless STAT just sitting there idly, that is why a repetitive discussion would inevitably arise. (it is just a natural human reaction to nitpick on things)

 

Regarding the issue, i think it would be better to make EVADE function similar to BLOCK for the sake of giving it purpose. 

While AIM RATE would be the counter for those stats.

 

Also the problem for those stats is, they sometimes occur in rapid succession, why not make it passively-active or something? 

Where when it occurs, it cools down for a set amount of time before triggering again.

 

To balance it, the STATS could be reworked to only amount up to 50%(limit) of total reduction received even when both EVADE and BLOCK are triggered at the same time, coupled with the passively-active nature i doubt it can be exploited even if the STAT is stacked.

Pardon if this is now out of place, i was just a bit late on the issue and wanted to get my thoughts/idea across.

[jepherdy]

Maybe just do something about those stats. If the developer or other players really doesnt want aim, evade and block,remove it atleast from all SC gears and special options like pos weap and wings and to all gears that u will get aim an evade. Since these stats are useless, why not remove it from the game completely? To make it for us players harder to sc such as pos equips? If u disable the stats remove it.

[Popcorn]

Maybe just do something about those stats. If the developer or other players really doesnt want aim, evade and block,remove it atleast from all SC gears and special options like pos weap and wings and to all gears that u will get aim an evade. Since these stats are useless, why not remove it from the game completely? To make it for us players harder to sc such as pos equips? If u disable the stats remove it.

 

 

One idea I have and I would like to hear opinions about (in a clear and civil way) would be:

Please know that this are only my very own thoughts for now - nothing is planned nothing is decided by the team or anything. Also all amounts are hypothetical.

 

Offensive

Damage Block Rate (supersedes Evade Rate) - useful for PvP and PvE
 

If you have Damage Block Rate (DBR) 10.0% you can block 10% of the Damage of the enemy (Player in PvP, Monster in PvE) which is max. +5 levels above you. The higher the level of the enemy the lower the block rate will be.

 

No debuffs should be able to be blocked. Edit: and the max block rate needs to be capped at a certain amount.

 

 

 

Defensive

Damage Block Rate Decrease (supersedes Aim Rate) - useful only for PvP
 

If you have Damage Block Rate Decrese (DBRD) 25.0% and your enemy has a Damage Block Rate of 10.0% the enemy will only block 7.5% (25% less).

 

 

 

 

This system might have flaws, things I didn't think of yet, the question if it should be a success rate or a fixed amount (because you don't like randomness in PvP so I think you would prefer fixed), possible side-effects etc. Please don't bash on me for this idea. It was just a rough idea at the moment.

 

 

Edit: and sorry for my bad grammar. I am currently doing several things at the same time.

 

We are already discussing about replacing those stats instead of removing it.