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#51 SeikenDensetsu

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:08 AM

1. WP is a business, and a business needs to generate profit to stay viable and answer to its shareholders. From that point of view taking care of paying customers makes more sense than caring for a bunch of freeloaders. Since its free to play it therefore lends to paying customers who are actually holding the server up.

 

2. The problem is abuse. Abuse of the bio5 earthquake problem allowed cheaters who have a -_- ton of fragments, these people current hold the monopoly and hence they anyhow jack up the prices. Do you see much standard deviation between those idiots who have hundreds vs the ones who have lesser and are legit that you appear to be arguing for? Heck no. Again, freeloading.

 

I look down on freeloaders, take it how you want.

 

Having the stuff on kafra appeals to some people, it does to me, and for people who are have time as a commodity that is rarer than money, it makes sense for us.

Argue however you want, I don't see the GMs punishing these people, there is no proof of the punishment occuring, and since prices are about the same on ragial for the absolute majority of them, I take those venders as either cheaters, or players who freeride on those cheaters to zone in on price hikes.

 

Diamonds are not rare, but the monopoly and privatization of -_- allows them to set prices.

 

You can also see the opposite being effective. A long time ago, BMx3 prices used to go through peaks and troughs, up to 20m ea at one point. Maybe only a few of you might remember. But since WP make it abundantly more easy to get in boxes, prices dropped and stabilized, now more people can get BMX3s easily.

 

The point made here is, you wanna argue the -_- you do cos you wanna benefit zeny from the instance. I wanna upgrade my -_-, I dont give a -_- if you or WP makes the zeny or money. But if you make it difficult for me then I'd choose WP or course and prefer to cut out the middle man.

 

 


Edited by SeikenDensetsu, 26 September 2017 - 06:09 AM.

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#52 Bohem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 06:19 AM

i will be honest with you guys,

 

I AM JUST VERY JEALOUS THAT I WAS UNABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EQ EXPLOITS !!!!! 

 

and i am being honest here... If i has SC, i would've definitely went on to do EQ exploits ..pitty that i dun have SC...

 

since i was unable to profit / gain anything unlike other exploits, i suggest those items to be purchasable from kafra shop =D


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#53 XIII_Eraser

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:11 AM

The point made here is, you wanna argue the -_- you do cos you wanna benefit zeny from the instance. I wanna upgrade my -_-, I dont give a -_- if you or WP makes the zeny or money. But if you make it difficult for me then I'd choose WP or course and prefer to cut out the middle man.

 

It still all comes down to since you're a paying customer you should get whatever you want. Since this is the case for you, what's preventing you from asking for more absurd crap next time? And so what if it's difficult for you to obtain the item, either buy more KP to trade for zeny so you can buy it OR go down there and hunt it yourself. The solution is not for WP to sell the item to you in the kafra shop just because its getting difficult for you to obtain the item, by that logic WP should sell me MVP cards since its difficult for me to get them and I'm willing to pay.
 


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#54 Handersen

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:29 AM

It still all comes down to since you're a paying customer you should get whatever you want. Since this is the case for you, what's preventing you from asking for more absurd crap next time? And so what if it's difficult for you to obtain the item, either buy more KP to trade for zeny so you can buy it OR go down there and hunt it yourself. The solution is not for WP to sell the item to you in the kafra shop just because its getting difficult for you to obtain the item, by that logic WP should sell me MVP cards since its difficult for me to get them and I'm willing to pay.


Tbh having mvp card or enchant items really good for wp to cut down some ppl that selling z with $$.
If we have mvp card in a box I don't think ppl will sell mvp card with real $$ on Facebook.
Put it this way the item is not trade able it's account bound therefore ppl can't rmt these bio5 gears. So it's a win for wp if they sell this enchant stone on kp.
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#55 ChakriGuard

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 08:35 AM

Stop using the RL -_- commitment card. Everyone has 24 hours. Even Albert Einstein had 24 hours a day. Its all about time management. Now just be honest and admit that you're too lazy to work for it hahaha

 

Being said yes I'm too lazy to farm as I only play RG. Asking friends to play AB/String with me is also time consuming and not that efficient-wise. I also live in a weird time zone (I live in somewhere somewhere in North pole). Yes, cursed fragment in cash shop sounds good. People are not obligated to buy. Those who want to farm in game can do so and those who are grateful and want to spend $$$ to support iRO can also do so.

 

Although it doesn't really matter to me. Getting perfect headgear is irrelevant as WoE is dead (you cant make people cry anymore) and no one cares if you can hit 10m damage on dumb Als who dont fight back.


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#56 meli

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:04 AM

If people are so desperate to spend cash to make these enchanted headgears, sell wpe and buy from players who actually do the effort of farming. Do you know how much supply, gears, and time it takes to gather these materials? that's what you're paying for.

 

In short, this thread: "Bwaaaah I want end game gears without playing, but also I'm too cheap to buy the materials from players, spoon feed me pls"


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#57 Demeris

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:20 AM

Problem is many ppl nowadays busy in RL or already have family and kids in real life they don't have time to grind every single day for 8-12 hours.
Most ppl that still grinding like that either they have no life or they just unemployed. Maybe they still milking their parents who knows. A lot of youngster nowadays still living with parent and milking them. Unlike certain ppl with job and families. You can't compare us it's like heaven and earth. We work hard in real life and use the real life hard work for something enjoyable in game.
The unemployed on the other hand they farm mvp 7/24. So both is a hard worker but the way they applies and their view is 2 diff perspective. One seeing the game as their life the other seeing the game as a stress reliever.


That's your situation and that will be how you will view the game.

I have a busy life and the only thing I play nowadays is WoW and phone games. Sure there are things I can buy, but there should be things that can only be earned for playing through the game.

Even WoW understands this simple idea that players need to play the game in order to improve. You as the player will have to figure out what's worth sacrificing in order to make the time.
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#58 Bohem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:42 AM

speaking about mobile game, isn't most of mobile game pay-2-win? or am i being delusional ?


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#59 Demeris

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:44 AM

speaking about mobile game, isn't most of mobile game pay-2-win? or am i being delusional ?


Sure it is, but I don't need to pay lol. I'm currently playing Terra Battle 2
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#60 Zayaan

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:52 AM

2. The problem is abuse. Abuse of the bio5 earthquake problem allowed cheaters who have a -_- ton of fragments, these people current hold the monopoly and hence they anyhow jack up the prices. Do you see much standard deviation between those idiots who have hundreds vs the ones who have lesser and are legit that you appear to be arguing for? Heck no. Again, freeloading.

 

Did it occur to you that maybe other players aren't as well geared as my party and coterie's are?

Spoiler


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#61 Bohem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:54 AM

Sure it is, but I don't need to pay lol. I'm currently playing Terra Battle 2

 

 

that';s true. just wanted to know. btw, is that fun ? lol


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#62 SeikenDensetsu

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:10 AM

It still all comes down to since you're a paying customer you should get whatever you want. Since this is the case for you, what's preventing you from asking for more absurd crap next time? And so what if it's difficult for you to obtain the item, either buy more KP to trade for zeny so you can buy it OR go down there and hunt it yourself. The solution is not for WP to sell the item to you in the kafra shop just because its getting difficult for you to obtain the item, by that logic WP should sell me MVP cards since its difficult for me to get them and I'm willing to pay.
 

 

Your argument is like saying because there are people who ask for minimum wage to be raised, that everyone who agrees with the raise will ask to be spoonfed by the state for the rest of their lives. The bull-_-tery. Keep extrapolating.

 

Stop using the RL -_- commitment card. Everyone has 24 hours. Even Albert Einstein had 24 hours a day. Its all about time management. Now just be honest and admit that you're too lazy to work for it hahaha

 

Being said yes I'm too lazy to farm as I only play RG. Asking friends to play AB/String with me is also time consuming and not that efficient-wise. I also live in a weird time zone (I live in somewhere somewhere in North pole). Yes, cursed fragment in cash shop sounds good. People are not obligated to buy. Those who want to farm in game can do so and those who are grateful and want to spend $$$ to support iRO can also do so.

 

Although it doesn't really matter to me. Getting perfect headgear is irrelevant as WoE is dead (you cant make people cry anymore) and no one cares if you can hit 10m damage on dumb Als who dont fight back.

 

Yes everyone has 24 hours, but not everyone earns the same amount per hour. WOE is already dead, right now a large share of people don't WOE anymore, and WOE is not compulsory. I personally don't give a flying fish about it. If anything to be honest, given how OP the headgears are, they prolly will end up being disabled at WOE at some point, since the power creep does not scale (i.e. increase in damage does not scale with increase in hp, hence ppl will T.T).

There was a point where WOE was fun for me too, that time has passed. So many things need fixing yet we seem to have new content that continually stuffs us over without being worked out first. If a car for example gets launched before it is made safe, then had massive issues, in real life this would already be a class action lawsuit.

 

If people are so desperate to spend cash to make these enchanted headgears, sell wpe and buy from players who actually do the effort of farming. Do you know how much supply, gears, and time it takes to gather these materials? that's what you're paying for.

 

In short, this thread: "Bwaaaah I want end game gears without playing, but also I'm too cheap to buy the materials from players, spoon feed me pls"

 

I told you I don't wanna pay hiked up prices by people who run a monopoly. Read much? Supplies and gears? Tell that to the earthquake spamming idiots. Just because I don't wanna pay mafia like prices doesn't mean I am not amenable to more reasonable prices. There is no gurantee your items are not gained by earthquake since the GMs give ZERO transparency about punishements.

 

It's like the fake plastic rice that is sold in certain countries. Instead of nailing the consumers the attention should be garnered against the illegal merchants. I don't see any of you and your posse standing up and saying the earthquake spammers/abusers should be punished. Is it not SUSPICIOUS?

 

That's your situation and that will be how you will view the game.

I have a busy life and the only thing I play nowadays is WoW and phone games. Sure there are things I can buy, but there should be things that can only be earned for playing through the game.

Even WoW understands this simple idea that players need to play the game in order to improve. You as the player will have to figure out what's worth sacrificing in order to make the time.

 

Yes Demeris, it's the same as the bio4 runs. That's why against the will of some players I defended your runs when they were shooting you down, as I know what it takes. The difference is, you didn't do it with the earthquake abuse for the bio4 runs.

 

Did it occur to you that maybe other players aren't as well geared as my party and coterie's are?

 

Man this is hard, you and Dem are people I look up to. The thing is, there was huge abuse, enough to warrant a restart. The problem is, no GM has owned up to what has been done to punish the idiots. I don't know who Coterie is, I don't really care, as there is no way to confirm what they sell is legit.

 

End of the day, GMs need to communicate better with players about what they have done to convince us what is on the market is not fake.

 

If they refuse to do it, the only way otherwise is to do it via kafra. I don't agree with MVP cards for sale in kafra, and I never have. And if the management is really serious about fixing the mvp card situation, shouldn't they have gone to the facebook groups, correlate that with the ones being sold in WP chaos market, and wipe them out proper? That's a discussion for another day.


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#63 Hissis

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:10 AM

Did it occur to you that maybe other players aren't as well geared as my party and coterie's are?

Spoiler

 

Nice tetris


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#64 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:23 AM

Your priority seems to be making zeny.

 

My priority is upgrading.

 

Two different things. Since there is no conversion related to silvervine, this shouldn't even be a comparison?

 

You're trying to make two situations that are exactly the same into two different cases. Whatever you want to have, either in real life or in game, you'll need money (or zeny, which can be converted to RL money as many have already stated the legit means of doing so), if you want to get cursed crystals and don't have time to grind, just use your money to buy zeny and buy these items. Don't like the prices? Grind. Or do like me and F_CKING WAIT. I don't get why people are so eager to get everything ASAP nowadays. I was not talking about making zeny, I was talking about having a reason to play. If whatever content you do give you a crappy reward, why the heck would you keep playing such a repetitive grinding game? Why would you keep doing dailies or farming or repeating instances if the reward was worth nothing? So, if they managed to introduce some content with meaningful reward, leave it as is. If you can't play, just pay. Or if you insist so much that the GMs don't punish whoever do illegal stuff, why don't you try your luck with those unlegitimate RMTers and see what happens to you?

 

Don't try toi take away peoples reason to keep playing just because you can't have it right now. Oh, and just for the record, I'm am one of those who are not milking their parents, I work and support my family, and in fact, I'm milked by my mother, so this is the opinion of someone with the exact opposite profile of who you want people to believe are the ones who oppose total pay to win in this already broken game.


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#65 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:24 AM

Lol, don't even think the EQ was all that viable for killing in bio 5. Maybe if they could get 1 monster by itself at a time to kill it so damage didn't split, the only real abuse that would really help for bio 5 was the one where CC was doing infinite damage. The people who have hundreds of fragments are people who organized decent parties. Whether they go in and solo as a doram or something or have a small 2-3 man party to farm. Or they go in with a larger party and just sell off all the loots to split between the members. I have friends going in there to solo who have 300+ of them. You can't jsut go saying that since they have a bunch of them it means people used abuse to get that much.

And in the back of Zayaan's video you can see a SC attempting to kill in bio 5 with EQ and dieing a horrible death, lol.

I hate the grind in there, so much time just to get a few fragments. And then using them to not even get the enchants I want, And then if you do it can degrade when you try to rank it up... Such a massive grind.


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#66 Ashuckel

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:39 AM

Lol, don't even think the EQ was all that viable for killing in bio 5. Maybe if they could get 1 monster by itself at a time to kill it so damage didn't split, the only real abuse that would really help for bio 5 was the one where CC was doing infinite damage. The people who have hundreds of fragments are people who organized decent parties. Whether they go in and solo as a doram or something or have a small 2-3 man party to farm. Or they go in with a larger party and just sell off all the loots to split between the members. I have friends going in there to solo who have 300+ of them. You can't jsut go saying that since they have a bunch of them it means people used abuse to get that much.

And in the back of Zayaan's video you can see a SC attempting to kill in bio 5 with EQ and dieing a horrible death, lol.

I hate the grind in there, so much time just to get a few fragments. And then using them to not even get the enchants I want, And then if you do it can degrade when you try to rank it up... Such a massive grind.

I didnt wanted to say but yeah, surprised ppl think EQ would be a valid option to farm bio5, specially because EQ mechanics forces you to take the most damage possible to deal high damage. Pair that with bio5 mobs being able to easily 1shot even geared players, having 2m+ HP and being various across the map, ehh, Zayaan video shows it all already.


Prices are high because demand is high, and supply doesnt catch up to it, since the map isnt anywhere near ez pz as is the rest of the game to farm.


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#67 Nirvanna21

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:41 AM

I would also like to add it was not the Bio5 EQ bug that caused the inflation, but glad to see you only read little bits and pieces on the thread only to try and put two things together that don't actually equate to the answer you are looking for.

 

Anyways, both you and Handersen need to realise, if you wanna get some things, you gotta pay the prices that people charge. WP can't always have the monopoly on value, as it is they already have it on 96% of the market.


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#68 Bohem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:47 AM

what's important is that it looks as though all the exploitors will get away without getting punished...ewwwwww 


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#69 Nirvanna21

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:50 AM

what's important is that it looks as though all the exploitors will get away without getting punished...ewwwwww 

 

But not everyone who farms these materials are exploiting. Those people should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Simple.


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#70 Bohem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:57 AM

yeah that's why i said 'all the exploitors'.... not regular farmers..but i dun think WP has man power nor time to handle this case by case basis... so yeah.. 


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#71 ChakriGuard

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:58 AM

I would also like to add it was not the Bio5 EQ bug that caused the inflation, but glad to see you only read little bits and pieces on the thread only to try and put two things together that don't actually equate to the answer you are looking for.

 

Anyways, both you and Handersen need to realise, if you wanna get some things, you gotta pay the prices that people charge. WP can't always have the monopoly on value, as it is they already have it on 96% of the market.

 

I dont care if Bio5 is currently Farm-2-Win/Abuse-2-Win because it doesn't pertain to me. I'm good either way; Farm-2-Win or Pay-2-Win.

 

However your argument can also go in two ways. Assuming they put Cursed fragment in Cash shop, then F2W players also need to realize if they cant sell in-game loots, then they have to lower the prices because not everyone is going to P2W. OCPs have taught F2W players very well; cant sell then lower the prices.

 

Selling Cursed fragment in cash shop just means WP generate revenues and F2W players lose their power to manipulate the market as Cash shop is another solid competitor.

 

Dont get me wrong. I'm always fine with WP's management. OCPs in Cash shop? Cool. No Cursed fragment in Cash shop? Cool  :heh:  :heh:  :heh:

 


Edited by ChakriGuard, 26 September 2017 - 11:58 AM.

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#72 Nirvanna21

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:00 PM

I dont care if Bio5 is currently Farm-2-Win/Abuse-2-Win because it doesn't pertain to me. I'm good either way; Farm-2-Win or Pay-2-Win.

 

However your argument can also go in two ways. Assuming they put Cursed fragment in Cash shop, then F2W players also need to realize if they cant sell in-game loots, then they have to lower the prices because not everyone is going to P2W. OCPs have taught F2W players very well; cant sell then lower the prices.

 

Selling Cursed fragment in cash shop just means WP generate revenues and F2W players lose their power to manipulate the market as Cash shop is another solid competitor.

 

Dont get me wrong. I'm always fine with WP's management. OCPs in Cash shop? Cool. No Cursed fragment in Cash shop? Cool  :heh:  :heh:  :heh:

 

The problem there is Chakri, is that there aren't many useful things to farm in game that can generate enough zeny to be able to purchase OCP items. The only things that are a constant are certs. Bio5 isn't easy. People should be able to sell their fragments for whatever they want.

 

At the end of the day, WP can do whatever they want. However I doubt they would do this knowing the consequences.


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#73 PervySageMarty

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:10 PM

I think everyone has a good point.

Although i like playing the waiting game because usually it means prices go down, it is only an assumption and does not mean a reversal cant happen because of the zealous requirements for enchanting. Say all you want that enchants lvl 6~10 mean your a crazy nut, but it only takes that one guy with a lvl 10 enchant posting a video of him doing another 70k damage over 600k to get the peanut gallery going for the chance too.

Selling WPE/KP to zenny then zenny to frags may sound as normal the idea, but if anything, this economy has taught us all a valuable lesson, price referencing and in a smaller sense a type of geocentric pricing. If one guy sells WPE/KP, the price is it. But once you get multiple people selling WPE/KP,the price will obviously go down as one person will want to gain the marketing monopoly from others, leaving to a price referencing situation. There is also the fact of geocentric pricing that seems to follow when people have access to zenny from the WPE/KP selling market, prices seem to rise in both response to quantity of WPE/KP sellers and the rise in price from WPE/KP to zenny. Therefore it wouldnt matter for people to sell more WPE/KP to get more zenny as some suggest.

Of course this is just what i think and see through my eyes, everyones view may differ. Which I need to argue in itself, everyone has their own lived situations and experiences, as much as there are other variables besided those I have talked slightly about (global pricing is an issue), as well as much room for deeper thought. There is no right or wrong to any of what anyone says, just different views and lived experiences. The very fact that people are calling out other peoples thoughts as stupid or retarded or just right down wrong makes me realize that while you all make yourselves out to all be capable mature thinkers, you have nothing but a childish mind.

I myself am a whaler, just saying. Any problems, speak to my customers, who i am sure have always been satisfied with my services huehuehuehue *I have derailed this thread to point of no return, and if you're all wondering why i spouted all this nonsense that has no relation to the problem at hand, then i am just as confused as you are. I think i just wanted to sound awesome and important at 3am in the morning while watching suggestable content in bed on my phone......*

Edited by PervySageMarty, 26 September 2017 - 12:14 PM.

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#74 Bohem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:17 PM

shouldn;t we also consider that fact that this server (chaos) has less then 2k people playing? (if merchant & bots acounted, may be less then 1k people actually playing).

 

 


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#75 Nirvanna21

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:37 PM

shouldn;t we also consider that fact that this server (chaos) has less then 2k people playing? (if merchant & bots acounted, may be less then 1k people actually playing).

 

Still plenty of people farming Bio5 though. Because aside from certs it really is the only thing worth farming atm.


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