12 replies to this topic

[ThomasBeraud]

Hello, I am an old player coming back to Ragnarok after some years. My favorite class is the Paladin, and I look forward to the arrival of the Crusader class in RE:START. Now, I am preparing the build for my future holy warrior and I would like to discuss some challenging pointsthat have come up.

 

First, let me explain my situation. I am contemplating the viability of a more hybrid type, since I don't have much time to play anymore and I don't want to miss out too much on the various aspects of the game. However, I have a preference for hunting MvPs with a party: basically, all I want is a Crusader who can be very good in MvP parties but still have uses in a WoE (I don't really care for PvP outside of WoE).

 

I have come to the conclusion that the most efficient role for a Crusader in a WoE is that of a support, using Sacrifice (a.k.a. Devotion) and Shield Buffs (Guard, Shield Reflect and Defending Aura) for surviving. As for a role in a MvP party, I observe two options: a damage dealing role or a support role. For damage dealing, Holy Cross (wielding a two-handed spear) and Grand Cross are the options. Now, for deciding which path to take, some knowledge of the server's current MvP scenario is needed. Thus, I would like to pose some questions to the more advanced players.

 

1) Do you see a use for a Sacrifice oriented Crusader in a MvP party situation in the current state of the server?

2) What are the bosses that require or accomodate the use of a support Crusader?

3) How do you think Grand Cross will compare to Holy Cross in terms of hunting bosses?

4) Do you think it is viable to conciliate a damage build with a Sacrifice-support build (both in terms of attributes and skill points)?

5) Do you think Defending Aura (with or without Sacrifice) is useful in for MvP/PvM party situations?

6) What are your perspectives of the use of Sacrifice + Defending Aura in a WoE?

 

Well, those are my main questions. I think it is a somewhat important topic of discussion, since I believe many players are facing the same difficulties. Oddly enough, I find that building a Paladin is easier than buildinig a Crusader, because of the extra 20 skill points.

 

I look forward to your responses. Thank you for reading.

[Lan2007]

1) Do you see a use for a Sacrifice oriented Crusader in a MvP party situation in the current state of the server?

Yeah, knights kinda do have that role right now but a Crusader should do it better.

 

2) What are the bosses that require or accomodate the use of a support Crusader?

We only have old MVP´s right now so tanking support is not a MUST, but can be easily accomodated.

 

3) How do you think Grand Cross will compare to Holy Cross in terms of hunting bosses?

 

Depending on the final build Holy Cross its better due to the renewal changes in damage and the boost given to Crusader Skill. Also Knights are better mobbers anyway. Also I wouln´t want my Tank to kill itself.

 

4) Do you think it is viable to conciliate a damage build with a Sacrifice-support build (both in terms of attributes and skill points)?

I think its viable, but you have to sacrifice(no pun intended) something in the end. The problem with the crusader is that all the cool skills that they have are accesible as crusader, meanwhile other classes have to wait till they reborn to get their best skills. This leaves you with a lot of preety good skills to choose from and a limited amount of points to spend.

 

5) Do you think Defending Aura (with or without Sacrifice) is useful in for MvP/PvM party situations?

Definetely useful to protect your comrades as Priest are nerfed now.

 

6) What are your perspectives of the use of Sacrifice + Defending Aura in a WoE?

Really dont know, may have its uses like guarding the priest or something.

[3565150713142656837]

the only thing the above isn't factoring in with the answer to your 3, is that GC builds often have at most, mid range Vit (40-50). This is due to how GC works. So is it viable. Even with Priest nerfs it will be a useful skill to have because of the damage it does at max rank. 

 

Did a bit of fiddling on a skill builder, you can easily max both HC and GC and even get Heal maxed so that any healers in your party aren't having to worry as much. But you would need to build very carefully none the less just to make sure.

Edited by 3565150713142656837, 06 October 2017 - 03:50 AM.

[Ashuckel]

You can transfer your shield buffs (Defending Aura, Guard and Shield Reflect) to the person you are saccing.

Mainly ones with ranged skills, DA will reduce it's damage drastically. Can also make use of Crusaders big HP pool and potting efficiency to be the health pool of squishier classes tanking the mvp. You dont have to worry about reductions when saccing.

Holy Cross is far easier to use and has potential more DPS due to aspd spam.

Simply having Sacrifice is already a great support. Picking/maxing the defensive skills is up to you, altho i'd advise to always get DA lv5, it reduces ranged dmg by so much.

Absolutely.

DA isnt all that needed in WoE atm since the bulk of damage isnt really ranged. It will be pretty powerfull as the rest of the classes gets implemented and this type of damage becomes more common. That being said, simply having Sacrifice is already super good for WoE, it prevents the person you are saccing from having it's cast interrupted and increases their survivability by a whole lot, with Crusaders innate high HP pool and potting efficiency.

PS: Getting Heal on a crusader is super non efficient, the potency of the healing is low, the sp cost vs the class sp pool is high, and you could heal the same amount with a single white potion.

Edited by Ashuckel, 07 October 2017 - 03:06 AM.

[3565150713142656837]

i suggested the heal for the idea of building a hc/gc crusader. the heal makes it so you can cast gc without having to solely rely on your priest to get you back to a safe health point. plus if you are soloing and don't have alot of extra potions to spare...having heal is useful

[Lan2007]

i suggested the heal for the idea of building a hc/gc crusader. the heal makes it so you can cast gc without having to solely rely on your priest to get you back to a safe health point. plus if you are soloing and don't have alot of extra potions to spare...having heal is useful

 

 I also dont think Heal its a good idea, at least not in this server where we have access to super cheap premium pots, the skill points would better invested in higher levels of protective auras.

 

Better defensive proficiency>Mediocre recovery

 

Even with a full INT stat spread, the lack of weapons with MATK bonus (like wands and rods) make it difficult for heal to be viable. Maybe it was good before, but not anymore.

[3565150713142656837]

the secondary thing was by maxing both hc and gc it doesn't leave alot of skill points to be put anywhere, so i doubt you could get some of the defensive skills off the crusader tree and max both those out

[Ignasia]

Gonna third the point that Heal isn't very effective on a Sader.

 

I would say no to GC in general, because damage output is anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3rds, depending on weapon and upgrade level, due to how INT scales in Renewal.  100 Int will give you about 1/4 the damage output in Renewal as in Classic.  They make up for this by dumping into Magic Stats on weapons.  However Gravity failed to account for this with Saders.  Sure, you have 3rd class gear with some MATK options, and MATK buffs, but Saders and Paladins are kind of screwed.  Bazerald is the best GC weapon for a GC sader, and was in Renewal unless you had a level 4 weapon upgraded to +12, or on of a handful of special weapons like the RWC Knife or Mace.  Then later on the Crimson gear.

 

Your best GC weapon is the Bazerald.  Sadly I cannot demonstrate this on the calculator as GC is broken and doesn't work on the Renewal calc (does on the Classic).  Suffice to say, for 19,000~22,000 average damage based on equipment in Classic, you'll get for the same gear something closer to 8,000~13,000.

 

However, one ray of light for GC is that a number of late game enemies get a huge reduction in their HP stat in Revo-Classic due to using Classic rules for HP and level (also hit and flee rates are SUBSTANTIALLY lower for some).  Others get a boost, but Raydrics are one mob that gets a reduction here, and thus the damage output of GC, being less, is still sufficient, but it will take 1~5 casts instead of 1~3 with the same gear.  You'll also take a bit more damage comparatively due to how Armour defense works in Renewal.

 

However, at this moment, due to GC's weapon options, and the lack of heal boosting headgear (and cards...and accessories), Heal level 10 is kind of meh.  It's not god awful, and I think Ashuckle is overplaying how bad it is, but it is pretty bad.  You will do 1/3~1/2 your heal on Classic...yeah, seriously.  The only way around this right now is the Bazerald, where at best you'll end up with somewhere a bit higher than 1/2 the heal output.  No, seriously.  Int scaling is horrible in Renewal.  Gravity just failed to assure MAttack weapons for Saders, and instead turned Saders into Spear Knights, while turning Spear Knights into pure Dragon Breath uber HP pseudo-tanks.

[ThomasBeraud]

Thank you so much for your responses! These replies are elucidating.

 

Analysing my options, I could conclude the following (please tell me if you agree):

 

A. Holy Cross, requiring a two-handed spear to be really efficient, is conflicting with the usage of Sacrifice, since the latter shines with shield buffs. Also, to use HC for the purpose of killing bosses requires a high amount of AGI and STR, which do not add value to Sacrifice. Using a two-handed spear, all the skill points spent on the shield buffs on the way to Sacrifice are wasted. Even if you switch to a shield in certain situations, many skill points are not given use most of the time.

B. On the other hand, both Grand Cross and Sacrifice profit from good DEX, therefore allocating points in a GC-Sac build is efficient.

C. To take Heal is inefficient. Also, it is mathematically impossible to maximize GC and Heal and still take even a single point of Sacrifice.

D. In MvP parties, Sacrifice is prefered instead of GC, since GC's damage is not impressively high and it is not preferable for the tank to take GC's damage. However, GC could be used to solo some bosses.

 

In view of all this information you guys provided and what I could conclude, I decided:

- To use a shield at all times;

- To take Sacrifice;

- To maximize Defending Aura;

- Not to go for Holy Cross;

- Not to take Heal.

 

Then, the next important decision to make is: should I go for Full-Support or should I go for a GC-Support hybrid build?

 

By Full-support, I mean:

- High VIT and DEX;

- 4-5 points in Sacrifice;

- 7-8 points in Guard;

- 5 points in Shield Reflect (the minimum possible);

- Only 6 points in HC and 4 points in GC (the minimum possible);

- 5 points in Defending Aura (maximum);

- Peco Peco Riding, but no Cavalier Mastery.

 

By GC-Support, I mean:

- High INT, moderate VIT and DEX;

- 1-2 points in Sacrifice (depending if Peco Peco Riding is taken);

- 5 points in Guard and Shield Reflect;

- 5 points in Defending Aura (maximum);

- Maximized Grand Cross;

- Possibly Peco Peco Riding if Sacrifice is left at 1 points, but no Cavalier Mastery.

 

I would very much like to know your opinions about the builds above. What Stat configuration would you recommend for them? What could you say about their usefullness in general? Any genreal comments are welcome.

 

Thanks for the help!

Edited by ThomasBeraud, 08 October 2017 - 07:18 PM.

[Lan2007]

It depends on what's available to you. FS Gonna need leeching at some Point, and I'd Say the stats should be high vit, high int and moderate Dex.

With Gc One you gain more autonomy but don't forger yo spend some points in str to pump your Gc damage

[Ashuckel]

int isnt much benefitial to FS, Crusader SP pool and regen is pretty crap by default. Dex is nicer for cast time and hit rate, then some STR for damage on everything in your arsenal (you will still help to do dmg when aplicable).

[Lan2007]

INT also helps with cast time now, that´s something to considerate and the reason most monks are not investing as many points in dex as before, but only the time and tests when the job is finally released will tell us the correct balance of stats to make the builds viable.

 

Also for a tank/supporter, having more MDEF (even if its Soft) and status resistance is not a waste, altough I agree not having to rely solely on GC to deal damage would be nice, renewal´s weird Flee/Hit mechanics make possible to hit most things even without investing too much points in dex

[Ashuckel]

the ratio for cast time is basically, whenever 2 points into int cost less or same than 1 in dex, pick 2 int. Still, it doesnt ends with too much int with how stat allocation costs increases as they go higher.

The soft mdef gained is absolutely negligible, since it reduces the final magic damage, and not the matk used for the skill, altho some status resistances may have it's uses ( the person that made blind resist be Int based should get punched in the same :v)