15 replies to this topic

[Navy]

Note : This is an opinion/suggestion from someone who does not currently WoE on Restart, but has WoE a lot before as a guild leader and as a member.

 

So WoE has always been the dominating thing of Ragnarok online, it's the reason that a lot of people grind 200 millions hours during the week to be the best and get the best.

 

However WoE has not really changed too much in the last 13 years it's been introduced, yes we got guild skills, we got some skill balance, but overall the dynamic of it has not really changed. Whatever guild/alliance has the bigger numbers usually end up dominating. With restart I think now is a good time to spice things up or hell beta test it for the main servers.

 

A few of the main purpose of WoE is Guild Dungeons and God Items. Guild Dungeons are pvp and God item can only be used by one person at a time, it doesn't really give a whole lot of incentive for people to run around for 2 hours or defend a castle, specially more so for people that are not as pvp inclined.

 

So first we need more perks to encourage people to do WoE, perks that everyone in guild can benefit from. If anyone has more ideas let me know and I'll add them.

 

Easy short term to implement as they can be NPC with timer quest inside castle (Perhaps add a 3-4 days time period someone has to be in guild before they enjoy some of these bonus to prevent abuse)

 - NPC that add food buff for cheaper then the 25 Silvervine or 100k or maybe 3 times a day like VIP get.

 - Free 2/3x daily random goodies for each guildy (could be elu, ori, 20 blues, 1 Battle Manual / Bubble Gum, 100 whites, etc, maybe gets better as economy rise)

 - Hunting Quest turn in for exp of number killed (2-3x times a day)

 - MVP summon (I remember a Halloween event that did that, could require specific items/zeny to summon, can only be done by GL and a certain amount of times a day)

 

Harder to implement since it may require code/ new map

 - Instance dungeon related to guild dungeon with an MVP

 - Guild battles that can be organized by guild leaders (sort of like battle ground, but for guild, could be open like an hour 2x a day with token as prize that can be traded)

- Guild storage (it would require to have an history for guild leader to look at to see who put ins what and who takes out what, this would make supplies for WoE much easier, this is a quality of life improvement)

 

So that gives people some more incentive to actually participate and put butt in seats like Campitor says. But now we need to actually have people be able to capture castles and this may require some sort of balance changes.

 

Few suggestions (and I'm sure some have been suggested before)

 - Guilds should only be able to conquer 2 castles at a time (1 that can be defended and 1 that can broken to attack another guild). The mechanic is that you would need to abdicate 1 to be able to hit any Emperium again.

 - Remove alliance or downgrade it to 1. (Let's face it, we don't have the numbers or players for massive guild / alliance battle, so let's force people to compete against each other)

- Guild should have a prep room with a Kafra (storage/save/warp to any realm inside), this would be an instance created on the fly by a guild registering to WoE. Once WoE is over, the save for everyone is reset to Prontera or something and instance deleted (This is really more a quality of life improvement, we wouldn't need to maintain warpers and no one would compete for save points). Also an NPC would be added that sells certain buff or items for Silvervine, IE Glistening Coat, HP/SP refill, Red/Blue/Yellow Gems etc.

- Reduce guild member skill to only have 40 members max. (again we don't have the numbers, so we need to split the population to get things more even for everyone to have a fair chance)

 

So that's all I got for now, will update as I get more ideas.

Edited by Navy, 30 October 2017 - 04:18 AM.

[Namrok]

So first we need more perks to encourage people to do WoE

 

 takin agit and have gd - the best map to leveling, is not encourage?   25-27m.exp\h  better than anything

 

- NPC that add food buff for cheaper then the 25 Silvervine or 100k or maybe 3 times a day like VIP get.

 you dont like silvervine buffer? XD

 

 - Free 2/3x daily random goodies for each guildy (could be elu, ori, 20 blues, 1 Battle Manual / Bubble Gum, 100 whites, etc, maybe gets better as economy rise)

  guilds with agit already have a daily drop from chests

 

 - Hunting Quest turn in for exp of number killed (2-3x times a day)

 maybe, its nice idea.  but 1time per day

 

 - MVP summon (I remember a Halloween event that did that, could require specific items/zeny to summon, can only be done by GL and a certain amount of times a day)

not now. not in thise episode, not before  BB is comin

 

 - Guild battles that can be organized by guild leaders (sort of like battle ground, but for guild, could be open like an hour 2x a day with token as prize that can be traded)

 

- interesting, but better just open a BG

 

- Guild storage (it would require to have an history for guild leader to look at to see who put ins what and who takes out what, this would make supplies for WoE much easier, this is a quality of life improvement)

 

- its eployed in future (already on kRO, and not depend from episodes content)

 

 

 

 - Guilds should only be able to conquer 2 castles at a time (1 that can be defended and 1 that can broken to attack another guild). The mechanic is that you would need to abdicate 1 to be able to hit any Emperium again.

  its good to war agains top guild\ally who have 3-5 castles,  but not good for top guild.   

 

 - Remove alliance or downgrade it to 1. (Let's face it, we don't have the numbers or players for massive guild / alliance battle, so let's force people to compete against each other)

   for what? 

 

- Guild should have a prep room with a Kafra (storage/save/warp to any realm inside), this would be an instance created on the fly by a guild registering to WoE. Once WoE is over, the save for everyone is reset to Prontera or something and instance deleted (This is really more a quality of life improvement, we wouldn't need to maintain warpers and no one would compete for save points). Also an NPC would be added that sells certain buff or items for Silvervine, IE Glistening Coat, HP/SP refill, Red/Blue/Yellow Gems etc.

 

  its look like pserver sh...t

 

- Reduce guild member skill to only have 40 members max. (again we don't have the numbers, so we need to split the population to get things more even for everyone to have a fair chance)

 

  and what we must do if we have 50ppl.  or like p2w  100-200 ?

 break second-guilds and go to others?

[senpa1]

 

  or like p2w  100-200 ?

 

 

lol

Edited by senpa1, 30 October 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Navy]

takin agit and have gd - the best map to leveling, is not encourage?   25-27m.exp\h  better than anything

It's not enough, plus as I mention is pvp enabled, not everyone wants to waste 2 hour fighting before actually being able to level.
 

takin agit and have gd - the best map to leveling, is not encourage?   25-27m.exp\h  better than anything
 
 
 - Free 2/3x daily random goodies for each guildy (could be elu, ori, 20 blues, 1 Battle Manual / Bubble Gum, 100 whites, etc, maybe gets better as economy rise)
  guilds with agit already have a daily drop from chests

Which 90% of the time goes back into funds for Woe, meaning guild members get squat
 

- Reduce guild member skill to only have 40 members max. (again we don't have the numbers, so we need to split the population to get things more even for everyone to have a fair chance)
 
  and what we must do if we have 50ppl.  or like p2w  100-200 ?
 break second-guilds and go to others?

Proving my point here, if the server had 10k population we would have multiple guild with 50 members, here we have 2-3 which isn't bringing healthy competition. People whine that the server is dead and there is no competition, but that's exactly why, because everyone just stuff themselves into a few guilds.

[Namrok]

lol

 

im mistake? you have less ppl?  sry XD

 

I mention is pvp enabled, not everyone wants to waste 2 hour fighting before actually being able to level.

 

 it they do not want, he can leveling in global maps XD

 

 

Proving my point here, if the server had 10k population we would have multiple guild with 50 members, here we have 2-3 which isn't bringing healthy competition. People whine that the server is dead and there is no competition, but that's exactly why, because everyone just stuff themselves into a few guilds.

 

 

 it doesnt change anything,  2 guild with 56,  or 3 with 40 with one emblem

[Navy]

I don't know if you're just trolling or plain dense, so I won't bother trying to reason with you. If you don't actually have anything constructive to add to the post which the point is to try to make WoE more attractive so more people participate then refrain from posting.

[Namrok]

lol.. im not trolling

 if you interesting to woe revamp, try to read about woe -revitalization projet by gravity in next year

 

 not this pserver like customs ^^

 

 

but, ofc we wanna better castle drop, or more things from agits,  but some of your ideas is unbelivable..

 but i not say what your ideas are bad at all 

[MyVictories]

I actually like the idea of having a 36-40 player per guild limit with no alliances allowed. It's more appropriate for our server population. Instead of only top 3 guilds having 56/56 players in woe who can steam roll everyone else, you will have more guilds with strong rosters that can compete well with everyone, may be it will become less of a zerg meta. Having 36 active woe players right now is a more achievable target for the top 10 restart guilds, rather than 56 which is literally impossible with the current population unless guilds randomly start merging.

[EwoI]

Lower guild cap doesn't make a difference. We've had servers capped at 36 players and P2W still dominated those servers. It's a terrible option and forces guilds into making 'rosters' something big guilds like P2W are very good at doing.

 

This also means people can't play classes they enjoy and are forced to play 'what the guild wants'.

 

tl;dr lowering guild player limit makes experienced guilds such as P2W and SNL stronger, not weaker.

Edited by EwoI, 01 November 2017 - 07:05 AM.

[Navy]

Lower guild cap doesn't make a difference. We've had servers capped at 36 players and P2W still dominated those servers. It's a terrible option and forces guilds into making 'rosters' something big guilds like P2W are very good at doing.

 

This also means people can't play classes they enjoy and are forced to play 'what the guild wants'.

 

tl;dr lowering guild player limit makes experienced guilds such as P2W and SNL stronger, not weaker.

 

Fair enough, let say a big group of player that sits currently at 120 players or something have to split into 3-4 guild and can only do 1 ally each. It doesn't really matter that those 3-4 guild are coming out on top, the goal is that 1 they will have to attack each other at some point or another even if it just out of being bored. And 2 regular group of 36 people can compete easier. Mission accomplished. The goal isn't to not make experienced player be on the bottom, it's to make it more balance for regular group to participate and compete. Also you'll need 3-4 guild leader to recall all that, not 1 or 2.

 

Just put yourself in the position of a guild leader right now, would you want to Woe against the current guild setup? Or prefer it to be max 36 people?

 

Again I get your point, it pretty much like in politic, once a party is in majority even if you split it, it doesn't matter they can still work together on the majority. 

[Namrok]

Just put yourself in the position of a guild leader right now, would you want to Woe against the current guild setup? Or prefer it to be max 36 people?

 

 

 im guild leader of russian community guild , and we wanna grow up and ressurect our oldies for woe with us, to woe with good and big guilds like snl and p2w  (just example)   and we dont have interest war with poor guilds and be best in this rank, we try to growing to tops,  its hard becouse we dont have enough random ppl

 

 

 but, not all like us,   maybe someone can woe 10x10 and do what they war are great ^^

Edited by Namrok, 01 November 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[MyVictories]

This also means people can't play classes they enjoy and are forced to play 'what the guild wants'.

 

This is already happening even with 56/56, and playing an effective woe class in woe should be what is encouraged any way. I bet you'd see less sins in woe with 36/36. 


A guild's strength would be determined by how well they play their squad, not how many more people they have. Of course, leading guilds will know the best ways to play that kind of a game, and for that they deserve to have an edge, but at least it won't mean more players playing = better guild by default, as much as it does right now. Bear in mind, this only hypothetically works with a no-alliances meta where if big guilds tried to make multiple rosters they would be damaging each other in any big battle.

It wouldn't change a lot, but the minor changes it may give rise to, still makes it interesting to consider as an alternate style of woe. Would likely never be implemented by WP, but a man can dream.

[EwoI]

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. I've seen guild caps on many servers. It's not a good thing. 

 

Eventually you will see the GVG meta from pservers here if there is guild caps. That means you're going to have 'rosters' consisting mostly of Creators and a couple of support classes. Trust me, it's not fun.

 

The current cap allows more diverse teams and strategies.

[Navy]

I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. I've seen guild caps on many servers. It's not a good thing. 

 

Eventually you will see the GVG meta from pservers here if there is guild caps. That means you're going to have 'rosters' consisting mostly of Creators and a couple of support classes. Trust me, it's not fun.

 

The current cap allows more diverse teams and strategies.

 

If you don't think that can work, would you have any other ideas or suggestion that would make smaller/new guild want to participate then? Because right now people don't want to play because they see WoE as a waste of 2 hour of their time since they can't compete and never will be able to in the current situation because the strong just stay stronger.

[EwoI]

No, not really. I have a couple of ideas, but I don't think it would really help smaller guilds to be able to compete.

 

- Some sort of participation reward to at least encourage attendance.

- WoE gear that only works on WoE maps or is disabled outside of WoE time. Allowing new players and guilds to have a basic set of equipment to WoE in.

 

Because they also changed the Emperium to the plant one its hard for smaller guilds to even take a castle. The whole system now basically encourages numbers to take a castle.

 

No allies and guild caps might allow them to compete a 'bit' better, but the result would be a boring and robotic WoE.

[Navy]

No, not really. I have a couple of ideas, but I don't think it would really help smaller guilds to be able to compete.

 

- Some sort of participation reward to at least encourage attendance.

- WoE gear that only works on WoE maps or is disabled outside of WoE time. Allowing new players and guilds to have a basic set of equipment to WoE in.

 

Because they also changed the Emperium to the plant one its hard for smaller guilds to even take a castle. The whole system now basically encourages numbers to take a castle.

 

No allies and guild caps might allow them to compete a 'bit' better, but the result would be a boring and robotic WoE.

 

Maybe WoE altogether needs to be changed so it's an instance (Like battle ground, but on a much bigger scale).

 

That way they can control registrations, numbers and where the fight occurs.