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#226 carbinemortiser

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:13 PM

dont feel like looking for the post detailing it right now, byt basically every drop in RO is X% + 0,01. Cards being 0.01 become .02, and if a piece is like 5%, it becomes 5.01%

 

^This is correct.

 

Basically, you take base drop rate, manipulate that number with all active drop modifiers, then add +.01 to the final number to simulate a rolling of 0 in a pool of 0-10,000.

 

So cards are not a natural .02% drop rate, but rather .01% with .01% added on at the end (which is an increase that is unaffected by drop modifiers).

 

So this means that our beloved HE gum is only working about half as much as what we thought it was.

VIP + HE gum:

0.02% drop rate
0.02 (1.00 + 2.00 + 0.50) = 0.07%

 

0.01% drop rate + 0.01%

0.01 (1.00 + 2.00 + 0.50) = 0.035 rounded to 0.03 + 0.01% = 0.04%


Edited by carbinemortiser, 11 November 2017 - 12:17 PM.

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#227 Mosu

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 12:49 PM

So this means that our beloved HE gum is only working about half as much as what we thought it was.

VIP + HE gum:

0.02% drop rate
0.02 (1.00 + 2.00 + 0.50) = 0.07%

 

0.01% drop rate + 0.01%

0.01 (1.00 + 2.00 + 0.50) = 0.035 rounded to 0.03 + 0.01% = 0.04%

Edit: I'm an idiot. Can't read.

 

Edit2: I'm not sure where you're getting that '1' inside the parenthesis.
Second scenario should be, with your formula:

[Base Rate] * ([VIP_dropRate] + [GearsWithDropRateBonuses] + [ServerWideDropBonuses] + [BubbleGum]) = [value] + 0.01% = [FinalRate]  

Edited by Mosu, 11 November 2017 - 02:02 PM.

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#228 Nirvanna21

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:05 PM

Don't forget spotlight, though that is the BASE rate.


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#229 Jerbear

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

So this means that our beloved HE gum is only working about half as much as what we thought it was.

VIP + HE gum:

0.02% drop rate
0.02 (1.00 + 2.00 + 0.50) = 0.07%

 

0.01% drop rate + 0.01%

0.01 (1.00 + 2.00 + 0.50) = 0.035 rounded to 0.03 + 0.01% = 0.04%

 

This is correct. It does mean that VIP is significant when +50% drop events are present as that would boost you up to .05%.

 

It's why I think VIP benefits should be looked at again. VIP has been the way it is for a very long time, but I think changing the model or including different models (+100% VIP boosts for a higher price, for example) is something worth considering. As it stands, with MVP Summoner being meh and +7 VIP Foods being outshined by things like Oda's Elixirs (expensive, but certainly abundant), I feel like VIP itself is lacking in overall benefits nowadays. Plus the WoE Kafra benefits are pretty lackluster with lackluster WoE.

 

If more gears like Sol Shoes and Amistr Bag [x skill w/ slot] come out, it'll become more and more realistic to achieve something like +25% drop boost from gears. With a +50% drop event of some kind, it'll add another .01% going on Campitor's recent example of how gears like that apparently function. This is, of course, assuming they all actually work and all stack with each other; if they take the highest modifier and throw out the rest (think how Sacrament functions with other fixed cast % stuff), then obviously it'll be unrealistic.


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#230 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:55 PM

Vip+Chewing Gum proc= 125% boost :v
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#231 Mosu

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:01 PM

Vip+Chewing Gum proc= 125% boost :v

Doesn't Chewing Gum proc regular Gum rates? Aka +50%.

 

Where is that extra +25% from Ash?


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#232 jamdonutjam

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:06 PM

See Campitor's explanation below.

 

However there is lastly a cap of about 90% drop chance on items boost by anything but database edit. That means if a item has a 50% chance to drop and receives a 300% bonus it will still cap at 90%

 

to clarify: does VIP drop bonus count as database edit?


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#233 Nirvanna21

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:08 PM

to clarify: does VIP drop bonus count as database edit?

 

ONLY spotlight counts as a DB edit.


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#234 jamdonutjam

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:11 PM

ONLY spotlight counts as a DB edit.

 

:wah:


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#235 Mosu

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:12 PM

ONLY spotlight counts as a DB edit.

Offtopic: Nirvanna, did you read my PM?

 

Ontopic: Did we not add Sarah and Fenrir instance monsters to (O)GH spotlight? The entire instance is done in Glast Heim...


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#236 Nirvanna21

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:25 PM

Offtopic: Nirvanna, did you read my PM?

 

Ontopic: Did we not add Sarah and Fenrir instance monsters to (O)GH spotlight? The entire instance is done in Glast Heim...

 

I noticed it, but have been a bit busy lately, watcha need?


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#237 Mosu

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 02:39 PM

I noticed it, but have been a bit busy lately, watcha need?

An easy way to contact you =P

 

@GMs and WP staff

Reminder to prepare Thanksgiving Day (aka Black Friday) promotions so that you don't "announce" that they will exist, and then wait until 10 minutes before they're released to announce what they are. Or you know, like 2 days later. #OCP11


Edited by Mosu, 11 November 2017 - 02:47 PM.

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#238 fuyukikun

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 04:06 PM

Any official statement from camp about this 0,01% drop rate becomes 0,02% mechanism?
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#239 carbinemortiser

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 06:50 PM

Edit2: I'm not sure where you're getting that '1' inside the parenthesis.
Second scenario should be, with your formula:

[Base Rate] * ([VIP_dropRate] + [GearsWithDropRateBonuses] + [ServerWideDropBonuses] + [BubbleGum]) = [value] + 0.01% = [FinalRate]  

 

OK I'm gonna try to explain it as clear as I can, but no guarantees  :heh:

 

That 1.00 at the beginning depends on your approach.

If you use 300% in [BubbleGum] the then you do not need to add the 100% base at the beginning.

If you use +200% (Increase by 200%) in [BubbleGum] like what I did, you need to add 100% at the beginning.

It is the basic percentage shown below because we all have to start from something when we set everything to 0 (no VIP, no gear, no server-wide drop bonus, no gum).

 

If I had to modify the formula, it's gonna be something like this:

[Base Rate] * (100% + [VIP_dropRate] + [GearsWithDropRateBonuses] + [ServerWideDropBonuses] + [BubbleGum]) = [value] + 0.01% = [FinalRate] 

But in this case, you MUST use +200% instead of 300%.

And server-wide drop bonuses MUST be 0% as well, since that is the value displayed when you log-in (represented by "Chaos 0.0%")

 

0.01% * (100% + 50% + 0% + 0% + 200%) = 0.035% rounded down to 0.03%

0.03% + 0.01% = 0.04%

Where:

[Base Rate] = 0.01%
[VIP_dropRate] = 50%
[GearsWithDropRateBonuses] = 0%

[ServerWideDropBonuses] = 0%

[BubbleGum] = 200%

 

Reference:

 

unknown.png

 

Ingame: Increase by 200%

unknown.png

 

iRO Wiki: Triple (300%)
Triple can be represented as ItemRate * 300% or ItemRate * (100% + 200%)

unknown.png

 

Divine-Pride: Increase by 200%

unknown.png
 

 


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#240 azumak1

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 10:36 PM

OK I'm gonna try to explain it as clear as I can, but no guarantees  :heh:

 

 

This is such a fantastically detailed post that it should be OP for a new thread somewhere. Thank you so much! 

 

adore.gif


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#241 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:31 AM

So card drop rate is 0.04% rather than 0.07%, no doubt why the chance is so miserable even with HE Bubble Gum. There is a significant difference between these two numbers, reading this kills my desire to farm any MVP cards.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 12 November 2017 - 01:32 AM.

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#242 MyNameIsTaken

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 01:57 AM

You dont get a MVP card by doing math and killing it XXX number of times its pure RNG, wonder why people still lookup numbers for stuff like this. 


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#243 VModCinnamon

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:16 AM

You dont get a MVP card by doing math and killing it XXX number of times its pure RNG, wonder why people still lookup numbers for stuff like this. 

 

Understanding how things operate in a mathematical pattern leads to tranquil acceptance, that, or go into maddening rage. --The hunt for MvP cards in Ragnarok Online.


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#244 layupka

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:21 AM

hi dont forgot to have a note on this one after the event over
non tradable>>tradable;
skelion, skelly, darkmane, bellribon XD
i think its a good profit someday
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#245 YongkySH

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 02:27 AM

Understanding how things operate in a mathematical pattern leads to tranquil acceptance, that, or go into maddening rage. --The hunt for MvP cards in Ragnarok Online.

 

Such wise words
 


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#246 azumak1

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 03:17 AM

Yeah, it really just all comes down to RNGesus. When we found Orc Lord Card during ET, I noticed shortly after that we never re-applied HE Gum when it ran out a few floors down. There was no server drop event, just plain ol' VIP. But here's the kicker: an Orc Lady Card dropped about 5 seconds before Orc Lord died and dropped his card.  :p_omg:

 

I'm even more shocked at that event now knowing that VIP alone wasn't enough to actually bump up the drop rate for the cards. 


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#247 Hirumminho

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 04:01 AM

Ok, so if vip don`t affect the extra 0.01%:

 

-1 to VIP subscription

 

lol confusing rates.


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#248 Mosu

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:22 AM

OK I'm gonna try to explain it as clear as I can, but no guarantees  :heh:

 

That 1.00 at the beginning depends on your approach.

If you use 300% in [BubbleGum] the then you do not need to add the 100% base at the beginning.

If you use +200% (Increase by 200%) in [BubbleGum] like what I did, you need to add 100% at the beginning.

It is the basic percentage shown below because we all have to start from something when we set everything to 0 (no VIP, no gear, no server-wide drop bonus, no gum).

 

If I had to modify the formula, it's gonna be something like this:

[Base Rate] * (100% + [VIP_dropRate] + [GearsWithDropRateBonuses] + [ServerWideDropBonuses] + [BubbleGum]) = [value] + 0.01% = [FinalRate] 

But in this case, you MUST use +200% instead of 300%.

And server-wide drop bonuses MUST be 0% as well, since that is the value displayed when you log-in (represented by "Chaos 0.0%")

 

0.01% * (100% + 50% + 0% + 0% + 200%) = 0.035% rounded down to 0.03%

0.03% + 0.01% = 0.04%

Where:

[Base Rate] = 0.01%
[VIP_dropRate] = 50%
[GearsWithDropRateBonuses] = 0%

[ServerWideDropBonuses] = 0%

[BubbleGum] = 200%

Spoiler

 

I see it as bad math practice to lump together constants with other variables. Everyone knows that the rates will never go below 100% (aka 1x/1x/1x rates--  if you're familiar with p.servers phrasing)
And triple does not mean 300%. It's considered "+200%" That word there is to make it simpler to understand what +200% means. My assumption is that iROwiki wasn't updated recently (aka after 3rd classes were introduced), where it was *3x.

 

Your blue text still seems wrong to me. But I don't know...

 

 

100% for  0.01% is still 0.01%


Edited by Mosu, 12 November 2017 - 06:24 AM.

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#249 Bohem

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 06:56 AM

bubble gum is too expensiveeeeee for me to useeee


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#250 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:08 AM

The price is fine, but if the card drop rate is 0.04% rather than 0.07%, it aint worth using He Bubble Gum at all. Better save it for something else, ie. Stefan JE Wolf hunting.


Edited by LordYggdrasill, 12 November 2017 - 08:08 AM.

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