92 replies to this topic

[Namrok]

Can you read? Im not in a small guild, i dont even play woe. 

 

 its not for you only XD

 

 you not play woe, who carea about you ideas XD

[yoyoninetail]

its not for you only XD

you not play woe, who carea about you ideas XD

Quite a few people, considering the replies in my thread? XD

[eleeson]

I dont play Woe yet but i noticed that the really big guilds seem to regularly get 3-6 castles every week while still holding their invest. How do you even compete as a solo guild if your opponent has 6 times the income for woe gear/alche mats/mini boss & mvp cards/godlikes? Doesnt really make me want to play gvg here.

It's pretty much a modern approach to a classical distribution dilemma. A bunch of wh-questions are in order!

1.Why are resources and people distributed in a non equitable fashion? 
2.Why do we have an army of WoE guilds with bad blood and old feuds bread and buttering each other when they should be promoting open competition? 
3.Why do we have an endless army of bots from Sunday to Friday just to do WoE on Saturday?
4.Why is PvM/PvE so scarce and trivial on a "neoclassical" server?
5.Why did it take less than 5 months to reach this point when it took years to get there (inflation, recession, low population, DDoS?) 
6.Who thought or came up with the idea of adding excessive vanity and micro-transactions to keep things under wraps?
 

Interesting questions, preposterous answers.

Edited by eleeson, 27 November 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[RealGarion]

It's pretty much a modern approach to a classical distribution dilemma. A bunch of wh-questions are in order!

1.Why are resources and people distributed in a non equitable fashion? 
2.Why do we have an army of WoE guilds with bad blood and old feuds bread and buttering each other when they should be promoting open competition? 
3.Why do we have an endless army of bots from Sunday to Friday just to do WoE on Saturday?
4.Why is PvM/PvE so scarce and trivial on a "neoclassical" server?
5.Why did it take less than 5 months to reach this point when it took years to get there (inflation, recession, low population, DDoS?) 
6.Who thought or came up with the idea of adding excessive vanity and micro-transactions to keep things under wraps?
 

Interesting questions, preposterous answers.

1) Time, Knowledge and Real Life money advantages

2) You actually answered that yourself already, old bad blood that leads to descisions that keep this bad blood into account.  The competition stays open and no one is against it but if guild A hates Guild B ,or vise versa both will use all means they can justify to win . 

3) Real Life Money of RMT Zellers, while they are stupid as hell, they are intelligent enough to set up bots and farm (most likely becouse of recommendations of even more stupid people) exactly items that are in alltime high demand an easy to farm  like woe supply. Greed is a much stronger motivator ,than beein supplied at woe ,in special when you can buy stuff you need for basicly nothing. So there might be players that use bots to fit thier woe needs, but this is at best a fraction. 

4) Microtransactions

5) RMT Zellers

6) Money driven desiscions 

 

I just assume all of them were basicly rhetorical questions ... but i was bored enough to still answer them ... 

Edited by RealGarion, 27 November 2017 - 08:50 AM.

[Undying]

Should only be 1 ally option and reduced guild size. This should have been implemented on all iRO servers many years ago.

[Amongluttony]

Should only be 1 ally option and reduced guild size. This should have been implemented on all iRO servers many years ago.

 

Or just limited the castles you can take, example (just example dont get drama for this lol) if P2W get alliance with Valhalla then limit to 2 castles to get for both, mean only 1 castle for P2W and the other one for Valhalla or both castles for only 1 guld and the other guild 0 castles, and of course to avoid the problems made some limitation like you cant break the alliance for the WoE duration or limit both guilds who made the alliance to dont take castles for 30 mins~1 hour at moment when break the alliance.

 

Because if you limit the guild size then the solution is easy, make 5 guilds, if you limit the alliance, then just dont make alliance at all and leave 1 guild in the entrance of the castle and the other guild in the empe.

[ChakriGuard]

Yeah, there's actually worryingly few guilds on restart

 

I thought Restart was Classic 2.0 

 

And about big guilds in WoE ... well from my experiences on Renewal. Dead WoE is not inevitable if a complete domination is assured and everyone wants to be competitive and victorious. Now Renewal WoE 1/2 are there for winners to free farm loots. They deserve it. Now WoE TE is still somewhat fun but the blame would probably be put on the winner guild again when WoE TE dies because losers rage quit.

 

Anyway, to solve the problem, it's the losers need to change their mentality i.e be more competitive. 

[Ashuckel]

that still falls into the solution you just gave '-'

The only way to woe castles not get "milked" by a single guild/alliance is having a big enough woe population to dispute them all. But any and all RO servers are long past that point.

[senpa1]

Or just limited the castles you can take, example (just example dont get drama for this lol) if P2W get alliance with Valhalla then limit to 2 castles to get for both, mean only 1 castle for P2W and the other one for Valhalla or both castles for only 1 guld and the other guild 0 castles, and of course to avoid the problems made some limitation like you cant break the alliance for the WoE duration or limit both guilds who made the alliance to dont take castles for 30 mins~1 hour at moment when break the alliance.

 

Because if you limit the guild size then the solution is easy, make 5 guilds, if you limit the alliance, then just dont make alliance at all and leave 1 guild in the entrance of the castle and the other guild in the empe.

 

you can't limit castles lol

 

and having an unofficial alliance is much worse and harder to work with than a real alliance

Edited by senpa1, 27 November 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[Acuwrex]

Two woes
Split the realms for each woe
Remove recall

[Xellie]

having been part of several 6 (sometimes more) guild alliances it's not as hard as some might think. Organization is everything. So I dont think an alliance limit / guild reduction would change anything.

 

We're so late in the game that people's loyalty and bad blood is already defined. It's symptomatic of the population being small, everyone hates eachother or is happy in the guilds they're in.  

[Bazzz]

it's always been like this and you'll never convince warp portal to change anything to do with woe, total waste of time. If you want balanced gvgs you need to play unofficial servers. 

 

And in this meta you only break a precast by hugely outnumbering people or catching them asleep and getting a ninja recall off.

Edited by Bazzz, 28 November 2017 - 07:57 AM.

[Irineu1994]

I think reducing numbers/allys will only dificult things, not solve then. Like Xellie said, communication is key and should bypass that.

A second WoE p/ week maybe should give small guilds a chance, cause in weekdays will be less ppl online, i know this is trouble due to time zones, but this should change castle eco a little bit, making the things a little more dinamic and competitive.

[Grissel]

Must be a limit for castles for a guild and alt guild. Example P2w and f2p can take just 2 or 3 castle. Old Euro server have this limit. And was good.Here small guild have no chance :/

[htpgmail]

Maybe if you ask nicely the big guilds will allow you to have a castle

[Xellie]

I think "small" guilds aren't looking at things correctly. When my guild was small (and by this server's standards it kinda still is) I used to go to choobs and figure out what the big guilds are doing. I'd look for patterns in the castles they took. I could learn that say in our case as an example, Valhalla always goes to luina 4, so I'd avoid it if my guild was smaller than Valhalla. 

 

From there you can guess at what god items the guilds are trying to make. p2w and snl are obviously working on mjolnir so avoid all the mjolnir piece castles. p2w also seem to like Megingjard castles, so avoid those. 

 

Small guilds aim for sleipnir/bris castles and your chances of being attacked in the end dramatically decrease.  

 

Also about econ, it's not as good as people think. Okay sure that guild gets OCAs, but they don't get the god item pieces that people tend to worry about. As for OCAs... sure it's a little concerning. But it's just accelerated ageing of the server and if that guild was 2~3 guilds instead of one big one the same number of OCAs would be generated on to the server. 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, these multiple castles that guilds are getting are purely because server population is low. My advice to smaller/newer guilds is don't worry about it, just get stuck in and have fun WoEing. There's things you can do to increase your chances of getting one of those empty castles! 

[senpa1]

Must be a limit for castles for a guild and alt guild. Example P2w and f2p can take just 2 or 3 castle. Old Euro server have this limit. And was good.Here small guild have no chance :/

 

What's stopping those guys from splitting into more guilds and getting the same amount of castles as they currently do?

[senpa1]

I think reducing numbers/allys will only dificult things, not solve then. Like Xellie said, communication is key and should bypass that.

A second WoE p/ week maybe should give small guilds a chance, cause in weekdays will be less ppl online, i know this is trouble due to time zones, but this should change castle eco a little bit, making the things a little more dinamic and competitive.

 

A 2nd WoE during the week might be good, especially for players that cannot attend the current WoE. However, I think it should split the castles so there's only 2 realms (10 castles) per WoE. 

[Xellie]

A 2nd WoE during the week might be good, especially for players that cannot attend the current WoE. However, I think it should split the castles so there's only 2 realms (10 castles) per WoE. 

 

so you can get double the number per week?  Cuz as good as the intent is, these small guilds won't be able to compete with the parties that are sent out. 

Edited by Xellie, 28 November 2017 - 10:30 AM.

[senpa1]

so you can get double the number per week?  Cuz as good as the intent is, these small guilds won't be able to compete with the parties that are sent out. 

 

I can't imagine getting more than 2-3 for p2w if there were only 10 castles open. It would be hard for a full guild of 56 to get 2 castles if only 10 were open. There's enough guilds of 30-40+ players where all 10 castles would be highly contested (which to me is a more healthy end of woe). 

 

It would make the end of woe way more action packed and exciting, but the downside is it would be very hard for a small guild (under 30 people) to get a castle. But if that was the case then 2-3 small guilds can ally or merge if they really wanted to compete for a castle. 

Edited by senpa1, 28 November 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[RealGarion]

As the woe leader of the most likely smallest regular woe guild i can think of ... i really have to say ... splitting woe times and therefore castles, would negate any attempt to get a castle. At least for now for us its a mix of luck and intel, to get the opportuninty to hold a castle at the end and to not succumb to b-takes. With every castle that gets written out of the possibilities the chances for a small guild dimishes more and more. So yeah nice thought even with good intentions but not really helpfull actually.

 

You know the only think that actually would cast life into the woe situation :

- Capture every castle and invest it to 100 (by a pseudo woe guild),

- let every woe guild get thier supplys out of these 100 invests

-  choose one castle per realm/goldlike item that isnt invested 

- cap the allianz count at 2 

- the 4 castles that are left are the only castle that anyone can fight for and earn thier rights for gl (since every other gl is dropped anyway sooner or later)

This has some other funny sideeffects as well ... ... and yes i am joking , although i would redeem it fun if we had like 3-4 castles tops, dont have to worry about supply (for woe and the castle drops) to much. The competition for castle drops is mostly the reason why the competition doesnt exists, since bragging right get pushed into second place behind ressource gathering

 

 

Edited by RealGarion, 28 November 2017 - 11:42 AM.

[Navy]

Woe itself needs to redesign as a whole, the open concept War is great for a server with lot of people (and is its strong point), but the reward system that comes with it is its problem.

 

If the reward would be based on some sort of point system/performance instead of the number of castle (meaning no treasure box) you get then problem would be solved, kinda like Battle ground are, but for WoE.

 

IE : 5 point for defending/holding per 5 min , 1 point per emp break, 200 point for holding entire WoE, etc. Then tarde point for what you want. Add some milestone per god item pieces, ie collect 100 point and choose an item.

Edited by Navy, 28 November 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[DisposableHero]

I dont play Woe yet but i noticed that the really big guilds seem to regularly get 3-6 castles every week while still holding their invest. How do you even compete as a solo guild if your opponent has 6 times the income for woe gear/alche mats/mini boss & mvp cards/godlikes? Doesnt really make me want to play gvg here.

 

As a smaller guild you eventually get big enough that bigger guilds take notice and try to sabotage your efforts each week, because competition is actually terrifying to these people.

[senpa1]

As a smaller guild you eventually get big enough that bigger guilds take notice and try to sabotage your efforts each week, because competition is actually terrifying to these people.

 

I don't think bigger guilds care who they are taking castles from at the end of woe lol

[Xellie]

As a smaller guild you eventually get big enough that bigger guilds take notice and try to sabotage your efforts each week, because competition is actually terrifying to these people.

 

Only if you try to econ. Which is a waste of time btw, you're better off being able to send people out and take two castles than to pigeon hole yourselves into one. 

 

UNLESS you know you can hold it all the way to 100. Then you're just painting a target on yourselves.