61 replies to this topic

[BlackMeow]

does demi human reduction decrease GoH damage? e.g. cat ears beret's demi human redux on phys attacks, MSH, Temporal Manteau etc.

[DarkOrinus]

From the Wiki:

 

Inflicts Neutral property Physical Damage to a single target.

 

Damage (ATK) = [Base_Damage × (BaseLv ÷ 100)]% + Bonus_Damage

 

Bonus Damage

This damage ignores the accuracy check and is unaffected by external modifiers.

 

i believe for the attack part, yes. although Ash said it was no. i honestly dunno what to believe but yeah, this is my collected information as of the moment. i did reduce goh damage once when a sura hit me and i switched to gr after the trip home. but it might also be just that it wasn't the same hp bar that hit me.

[Nirvanna21]

The important part to take away from this is, most of the damage comes from the HP mod, which ignores everything except Stoop/Energy Coat that I am aware of.

Edited by Nirvanna21, 27 December 2017 - 12:26 AM.

[BlackMeow]

The important part to take away from this is, most of the damage comes from the HP mod, which ignores everything except Stoop/Energy Coat that I am aware of.

 

this is what confuses me.

 

i mean, yeah i know demi human reduction reduce it's atk portion. i'm thinking of spending some good zeny on demi redux if the HP portion is also reduced.

 

 

so let me get this straight,

 

 

NEUTRAL REDUX e.g. raydric, deviling, immune shield = atk portion only if GoH is not endowed

LONG RANGE REDUX e.g. noxious, imuke = atk portion only for level 5-10

DEMI HUMAN REDUX e.g. thara, temporal manteau, CEB = ?????

ELEMENT e.g. ghostring = 30% redux on hp portion & atk portion (if not endowed)

 

is this correct?

Edited by BlackMeow, 27 December 2017 - 12:50 AM.

[Nirvanna21]

this is what confuses me.

 

i mean, yeah i know demi human reduction reduce it's atk portion. i'm thinking of spending some good zeny on demi redux if the HP portion is also reduced.

 

 

so let me get this straight,

 

 

NEUTRAL REDUX e.g. raydric, deviling, immune shield = atk portion only if GoH is not endowed

LONG RANGE REDUX e.g. noxious, imuke = atk portion only for level 5-10

DEMI HUMAN REDUX e.g. thara, temporal manteau, CEB = ?????

ELEMENT e.g. ghostring = 30% redux on hp portion & atk portion (if not endowed)

 

is this correct?

Damage (ATK) = [Base_Damage × (BaseLv ÷ 100)]% + Bonus_Damage

All reducts will effect everything apart from the Bonus Damage, the bonus damage however would be affected by Ghostring Armor, since the skill itself IS Neutral. So GR Armor would reduce it, and Stoop + Energy Coat.

 

Sadly most of the damage comes from the HP which is mostly not reduced.

[Sigma1]

GoH HP portion dmg likes old DB dmg.

[Silvianna]

do you guys still need the answer? 

 

because i have the actual test data, regarding atk part of GoH 

[Ashuckel]

nothing besides self defense buffs or GR reduces the HP portion, absolutely nothing.

[DarkOrinus]

do you guys still need the answer? 

 

because i have the actual test data, regarding atk part of GoH 

 

imma be an annoying kid and do this.

 

can i have the answer please?

[BlackMeow]

do you guys still need the answer? 

 

because i have the actual test data, regarding atk part of GoH 

 

pls 

[Althes]

Just FYI, 80k hp with 78 demi reduction and 75 range reduction would not survive a single shot.

[Ashuckel]

ranged reductions dont reduce goh damage. It is reduced by DA and Blinding Mist because its tagged as a ranged attack (blocked by pneuma), but ranged reductions are not in its damage formula, like ranged dmg% isnt.

[Silvianna]

here is it.
GoH damage can be reduced but limited to Atk part only, but you will still die because the atk part is 5000%,  can be spammed 3 times, same with 15000% + 3x bonus damage from Hp in one go.
 
in PvM, HP part is bad, unless you have Tao, you can add more 80 to 100kish bonus damage but if your atk is weak,  useless.
only good when your attack starts missing on mvps due agi up ability, because Hp part ignores accuracy.
however compared to Sura that focus on having high Atk than high hp, in PvM, the damage is far weaker. like sooo weak.
 
 
dont forget one golden rule in PvM
 
they cant cast any skills.

If they die.
 
       rofl
 

MvPing with red hp bar is pretty risky, and i didnt see any good points on it. not mention vs hard hitting mvps where your Survival ability will be tested
same with WoEing with red hp bar or PvP with that, even though i do believe it is a Personal Preference.
so do you really need to rely on leftover Hp with GoH ? the answer is no.
 
 

this is a proof, you can still do very high damage if you rely on Atk part only, 
because this Sura has approximately 32k Hp and since this GoH is with full hp ( errr maybe close to full ).
the bonus part is close to 0
 
you can spam 6 GoHs in one Snap , 3x from initial Zen / Rising Dragon duration, 3x after you recast RD after losing all spheres.
the total damage you can do is around 30000%. 
what about in PvP, can you do high damage even with 0 Hp bonus, yes you can
 

this PVM sura do 140k damage in pvp vs player with reductions, contradicting the idea of casting GoH when the hp bar is red / low hp. 
this GoH is also with 0 Hp bonus.
 
Final Verdict,
 
High Atk is the one that makes GoH damage jump not Hp, Hp part is the bonus, but it stays as bonus,
its killing factor is the 5000% skill modifier that scales on your atk and the ability to spam.
it means with combination of High Atk and High Hp, you will get maximum GoH damage, 
 
a Sura that focus on High Atk but wearing Tao can do more than 140k damage in PvP/WoE. 
 
you may discard reduction a bit to achieve this
why not ? your plan is to Kill in WoE/PvP not for tanking the other players.
 
the build that having high atk with enough hp surely kill, granted in PvM or PvP.
Even possible for you to have Sura that do good in Leveling / Instance / MvPing but also very deadly in PvP/WoE.
and i do believe basic task in WoE is knowing about switching your gears.
 
even though i dont pvp or woe. 
 
 
GoH with full hp anyone?

Edited by Silvianna, 27 December 2017 - 04:18 AM.

[bunnyband]

From the gif alone you can tell the rk is already missing 9% human reduct(or more if people use mob scarf/feather of protection), not to mention the rk was probably not on woe set + cranial shadow shield. Add 50% reduction from woe, the dmg will be reduced to nothing.(probably around 20-40k)
Plus that setup disregard alot of reduction to achieve and gt convert reduced ur hp to nothing. In term of survivability, it is not any better than low bar goh.

With full reduction and tao, sura can get up to 140-150k(leaving 20k hp would easily deal 60-65k that bypass almost anything), and more if you disregard reduction. And sac RG has a better chance to survive sac-ing a low bar high reduction sura.

[Silvianna]

what is 50% damage reduction from woe ?

thats with woe set, but its not with Imuke , instead im using Immune Shield

 

ranged ? i dont think it will work with goh, just like Ashuckle said

 

1m -> to 140k , reduced a lot already

Edited by Silvianna, 27 December 2017 - 04:43 AM.

[bunnyband]

Every damage(except autoatk) is reduced by half in woe, that is 50% woe reduction. Plus imuke doesnt reduce the damage at all. Range doesnt reduce Goh atk.

 

 

[bunnyband]

ur dmg will be reduce more by adding ceb and hanky on the rk, plus cranial shadow shield. Then 50% from woe reduction, ur down to below 60k at the very least.

Also facing shadow chaser and all those classes that can wield combat knife, ur dmg is pretty much none.
In term of dmg, low bar goh is still better.

Edited by bunnyband, 27 December 2017 - 04:46 AM.

[Silvianna]

There is no point arguing me

i dont woe.

 

 

 i included all the test data i got, if you want to accept or not, i do not care because the ones that requested is not you 

also, your statement

 

 

 

the reason i posted this is not for arguing with someone

im stating and telling people, if they are interested, they can make a Sura like this,

excel in PvM but also can kill in PvP.

thats all. 

 

Edited by Silvianna, 27 December 2017 - 05:40 AM.

[Silvianna]

But i also said, you need to use Tao 

 

switching your gears from reduction to offensive and vice versa

 

but do you really need reduction, Chakri uses Eden Gears though 

 

Edited by Silvianna, 27 December 2017 - 05:02 AM.

[bunnyband]

"MvPing with red hp bar is pretty risky, and i didnt see any good points on it. not mention vs hard hitting mvps where your Survival ability will be tested

same with WoEing with red hp bar or PvP with that, even though i do believe it is a Personal Preference.
so do you really need to rely on leftover Hp with GoH ? the answer is no."

"this PVM sura do 140k damage in pvp vs player with reductions, contradicting the idea of casting GoH when the hp bar is red / low hp. "
 

"Even possible for you to have Sura that do good in Leveling / Instance / MvPing but also very deadly in PvP/WoE."

 

Im not trying to argue here, Im just simply letting you know that is not the case in WoE scenario as you stated above. PVM wise yes atk part does the job, the hp part is not a good option.
Doesnt have to get so worked up, chill out.

[bunnyband]

With your gears setup and gt convert plus tao, it wont reach even 100k, since without tao as you can see is only 30k+. I assume u didnt pump up vit at all

[Silvianna]

hmm 90 vit ?

 

lol stop it,  there is no point telling me these all.

i told you i dont woe.

 

i dont ask you to believe my opinion , you shouldnt force me to believe your opinion.

 

 

whats wrong?

 

i do believe it will be like this, you believe it is gonna be like that, other people believe its not gonna be like this or that.

isnt that normal. 

 

 

Edited by Silvianna, 27 December 2017 - 05:22 AM.

[DarkOrinus]

I don't own a tao honestly. Nor do i feel like borrowing one cause of my reserved nature.    but I wanted another way around to play sura anyway. Just wanted to know if the only thing that'll help me in pvp is a tao. Looks like I could live without one.

 

Thanks silvi! I'll try to progress my build with this. Same for reductions on my support classes though.

 

might consider 120 luk if it's worth the while if the item we first saw gets released. it's worth the check at the very least

 

Edit: forgot a thing though yeah, we do have that 50% reduction in woe. but at the very least I could spice it up a little to actually kill people.

Edited by DarkOrinus, 27 December 2017 - 05:31 AM.

[Silvianna]

Yup, can be alternative way to build Sura,

 

what i believe not everyone using tao in woe

[Ashuckel]

for pvm the atk part is good. For pvp/woe, is just an extra one that may or may not matter if you have stupidly good gears, because what kills in pvp/woe is the irreduceable damage.