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Question about Trans & Renewal on RE:Start


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#26 Wolfen

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:39 PM

Actually i do think bb could use a small nerf as a cd at the end. I mean, pierce should out damage it in a balanced scenario vs a large mob
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#27 needmorezleep

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:47 PM

well if u want to for reason attempt to be era accurate bb should only deal 1 hit not 2 technically


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#28 Ashuckel

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 01:38 AM

it's 0.5s*
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#29 Kazuuya

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 11:13 AM

I think we got lost in the "oh no wiz sucks" part and you missed what my point was so lets forget about that for a while.

BB outperforms everyone, not only wizzes. The only other comparable AoE is Desperado but even then a gunner needs more gears to make it work properly AND doesn't have the increased weight limit of str classes nor the speed advantage of a peco so your mobbing will be generally less efficient. Also desperado costs like 3 times more than BB while doing similar dmg, although RNG reliant.

 

This leads us to this crappy situation where unless you want to solo until 99 you have to make a knight (or maybe a BB rogue or GS depending on how tolerant the party leader is) to leech yourself. As a consecuence of this, you can't really play with any class that isn't one of those 3. If you swing the nerf bat and adjust BB numbers a little bit (I never said they had to make it useless, just tone it down) then maybe the knight : leecher meta will stop being better than real parties and we'll start seeing more variety.

 

This isn't a wiz only problem, this affects every class in the server.

Didn't think I missed your point, but it is possible. Regardless I appreciate the sarcasm in this thread.
 
I simply disagree that you have no other option to level aside from the Knight+Leech meta ( I play all of my characters in Jup solo /w party ), and that a BB nerf is the solution to all of the servers problems related to party play. Realistically if the skill was nerfed i'd expect to see the next efficient class take its place. However the goal of knight + leech exp becoming less efficient might come to fruition. I don't think that alone will bring variety back to party play ( ex: assassins probably still won't get a party invite ). I think that part is going to remain contingent on the player base tolerating other classes in party, or warp portal removing woe pots from the game.
 
I just play whatever is fun for me and pull whatever exp I can, and I hope trans will be enough to add variety to the game.

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#30 Creaitov

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 02:32 PM

*snip*

Glad we're on the same page now.

Ok, technically you can always punch porings until 99. Its an option but that doesn't mean you're going to take it. As it stands right now the effort of building a proper balanced party is not worth it when you can just load up your knight + the leech and join a "party" where basically everyone solo mobs and still get more exp.

Now, if BB does get nerfed ofc people will hop on the next best thing which in this case is gunslinger. A class with less than half the HP of a knight, no peco, no built-in endure, no compatibility with earth deleter, less weight limit, higher SP costs and lesser damage (which is also RNG reliant). Suddenly going solo isn't that easy isn't it?

And the part about how this still won't help with class variety and how assa would still not be considered in a true party shows how little you know about them lol. Assa with 2x Fortune Daggers, 2x Yoyo Clips and Wild Rose boots gets a super high amount of perfect dodge allowing them to be one of the best pullers. You can make every class work in a true party, its just different than hurr durr knight kill leech gets exp.
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#31 Xellie

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 02:43 PM

Everyone gonna hate me for saying this, but something that might fix it up a little would be turn ins where the leechers would need to be on screen of the killers, therefore enforcing puller play. 


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#32 Spoon

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 02:51 PM

Everyone gonna hate me for saying this, but something that might fix it up a little would be turn ins where the leechers would need to be on screen of the killers, therefore enforcing puller play.


Inb4 gramps
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#33 Xellie

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 02:53 PM

They could do what we did on classic and have LK pullers then have the LK kill. HAHAHA DID YOU THINK THE SNIPER WAS GONNA FAS?!


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#34 Creaitov

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 03:18 PM

I remember when I tried those killer leecher parties with the wiz and sometimes friendly knights killed my mob before my AoE cast finished.

Then I stood there with some icy wind, a little swamp and my pink safe spot, looking at the horizon for 5s before teleporting away the sadness...
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#35 Kazuuya

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 08:35 PM

Glad we're on the same page now.

Ok, technically you can always punch porings until 99. Its an option but that doesn't mean you're going to take it. As it stands right now the effort of building a proper balanced party is not worth it when you can just load up your knight + the leech and join a "party" where basically everyone solo mobs and still get more exp.

Now, if BB does get nerfed ofc people will hop on the next best thing which in this case is gunslinger. A class with less than half the HP of a knight, no peco, no built-in endure, no compatibility with earth deleter, less weight limit, higher SP costs and lesser damage (which is also RNG reliant). Suddenly going solo isn't that easy isn't it?

And the part about how this still won't help with class variety and how assa would still not be considered in a true party shows how little you know about them lol. Assa with 2x Fortune Daggers, 2x Yoyo Clips and Wild Rose boots gets a super high amount of perfect dodge allowing them to be one of the best pullers. You can make every class work in a true party, its just different than hurr durr knight kill leech gets exp.

You definitely have a knack for making something sound exponentially worse than it actually is. That first line did me in lol. 

 

Gearing my gunslinger didn't cost more than my knight, and melting mobs on it in Juperos is fast enough that the class differences between the knight and gunslinger are negligible ( and easily rectified by woe potions / amistr bags / whatever other cash shop item WP can come up with ). The only thing that matters in those types of parties is EXP generated / hr. Gunslingers can definitely hold their own, so again i'll have to disagree that nerfing BB is going to make the game hard enough that people are forced to play with each other. Your goal of changing the meta will most likely succeed, but it won't have the desired effect imo.

 

I have an assassin, and i've played it in a puller party on this server more than once. I did that in spite of knights / bowling bash not as a direct result of the skill being nerfed. I agree with you that assassins can be decent pullers, but what i'm saying is not everyone will see it that way. Class preference will still be there, and your effort to nerf BB will be rewarded with a slightly altered status quo. I remain skeptical that such a change to BB can do anything beyond harming the class in question. It's going to take some work to make proper parties return, and the less we have to rely on each other the less of a chance we have of ever playing like that again unless people just decide "i'd rather do this" and do it. It's what me and my friends do.

 

The issue of proper parties not being around is a lot bigger than bowling bash my dude... it's just the current flavor of the month. After talking with you i'm inclined to think the only way to make proper parties return would be to make a dungeon too difficult for players to solo effectively, but rewarding enough per / hr that it would be in our best interest to do it together. Maybe an instance that requires a certain party composition to start that is just as rewarding as the knight + leech alternative. Something like this may already exist in the future ( I didn't play renewal / 3rd job classes ), but either way I think this would be a step in the right direction.


Edited by Kazuuya, 24 February 2018 - 08:39 PM.

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#36 CHARMander101

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 09:15 PM

everywhere, just regular ingame drops are 80% of what you need to get a pretty nasty dmg on SinX with renewal EDP.

EDP is dumb.


EDP is eficaz for AssCrossX Weapon/EQuip ATK multipliers, paired with the standard Autocast SB skill (Injustice card), SD skill ( Nab set) EDP is eficaz for
AssCrossX class.
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#37 Renaru

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 03:04 PM

Sins are never going to have a decent spot in the current party situation, and I can't say they will as a SinX either. Gone are the days where you could level 60-85 at CTHO with a good party and no matter your class you'd be able to do something.

 

But they're going to be strong from a PvP standpoint. It's now confirmed we're getting Battlegrounds which means PvP weapons will come out and EDP will make them even stronger. They don't need EDP Grimtooth.


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#38 Cyncienta

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 10:58 PM

U guys notice u all make good inputs and nice job sharing points of view and all of u are trying to improve the experience in the game. But all of this is no point when nobody listen. Even since the proposal of this thread is to clarify some ... we don't get a simple answer of why this or that can't be implemented.

What I feel is that hey are rushing into a load of updates/quest/happening stuff to the point that we don't even notice and here we are 3rd class.
Perhaps that was always the plan, and us talking about the game experience is just that.. a talk (between players).

I saw good ideas too.. I am always up for a propper party, even we used to have assas they were quite useful in teamplay. Good times... we were doing in average almost one ray a day (plus all the other items and fun). It is possible to make as efficient as knight and way less cost in pot wise. And only main wiz using gum. But the best part it is the fun and the fact that once we have tha basis, we can fill the party with any kind of class, no discrimination. But nowdays... finding ppl willing (and making them to coincide in time) became my nightmare. I think most of the ppl got the competitive frenzy to the max that using their time on any different activity will make by default, a peasant.
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#39 Cyncienta

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 11:43 PM

oh btw anyone else seen that baby knight in Juperos telling non Knight ppl go away bc that map belongs only to knights? it was a sublime scene.. he was trolling and Ksing hard to our party just bc we were on spot killing with wiz lol.

 

Just an example to the lvls of "efficiency" we have reached as gamers XD


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#40 pints129

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 12:47 AM

I agree.


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