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Question about Trans & Renewal on RE:Start


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#1 qripretty

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 03:38 AM

When trans classes come to restart, will they be exactly as they are on normal renewal servers without any adjustments for the lack of third classes? 

I feel like renewal mechanics without third classes strongly nerf certain jobs to the point of irrelevancy, especially melee damage dealers (that don't have gfist). 

 

For example:

 

SinX can no longer weapon swap with EDP.

SinX can no longer EDP Grimtooth.

SinX are no longer emp breakers since emps only take 1 dmg. 

Sonic Blow's damage is significantly reduced, not to mention we wont have links for months after SinX release. 

Arrows can no longer be equipped, and the list goes on...

 

The class is almost entirely useless in every aspect of WoE (and much of PVM). 

 

Almost all physical damage dealing classes (LK, Mastersmith, SinX) will feel the pain of renewal without third classes.

At least LKs will be top tier breakers and Mastersmiths have their utility, but I feel like the class diversity and options for damage dealing are going to be limited to HWs, Chems, & Champs. 

 

So, since RE:Start is already kind of a unique mixture of classic and pre-renewal mechanics, can we expect any adjustments to certain trans classes in terms of balance?

 

Thanks. ^^

 


Edited by qripretty, 18 February 2018 - 03:40 AM.

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#2 Namrok

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:51 PM

so, you want to  give sins arrrows and  edp + every skill XD

 

 just learn how to play in new mechanic

  sins is awesome


Edited by Namrok, 20 February 2018 - 04:52 PM.

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#3 CHARMander101

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 06:19 PM

so, you want to give sins arrrows and edp + every skill XD

just learn how to play in new mechanic
sins is awesome


AssCrossX trans. class 3rd no EDP,SB, got no effect in WoE mellee classes.
Do we really want to turn the tables here , making the AssCrossX a ranged
class. Arrows?
In general the AssCrossX is a fast kill mellee class which has no capacité de réservoir de boeuf look on the bright side it is very adept, PRO in stealth
mode attacks .
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#4 de1ls0n

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:02 PM

Quando as classes trans começam a reiniciar, eles serão exatamente como estão em servidores de renovação normais sem ajustes para a falta de terceiras classes? 

Eu me sinto como a mecânica de renovação sem terceiras classes fortemente nerf certos trabalhos até o ponto de irrelevância, especialmente os comerciantes de danos corpo a corpo (que não têm gfist). 

 

Por exemplo:

 

SinX não pode mais trocar armas com a EDP.

SinX não pode mais EDP Grimtooth.

SinX não é mais emp-breakers, já que emps só leva 1 dmg. 

O dano da Sonic Blow é significativamente reduzido, para não mencionar que não teremos links por meses após a liberação do SinX. 

As setas não podem mais ser equipadas e a lista continua ...

 

A classe é quase inteiramente inútil em todos os aspectos do WoE (e muito da PVM). 

 

Quase todas as classes de tratamento de danos físicos (LK, Mastersmith, SinX) sentirão a dor da renovação sem terceiras classes.

Pelo menos, os LKs serão disjuntores de nível superior e os Mastersmiths terão sua utilidade, mas eu sinto que a diversidade da turma e as opções de reparação de danos serão limitadas a HWs, Chems e Champs. 

 

Então, desde RE: Start já é uma espécie de mistura única de mecânica clássica e de pré-renovação, podemos esperar quaisquer ajustes em certas classes trans em termos de equilíbrio?

 

Obrigado. ^^

Have you heard of the magic synx build and also the Soul Destroyer build? are 2 excellent builds that give a lot of damage, give it a look.

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#5 Philione

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 07:55 PM

Buff Mage Classes, thank you.


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#6 Creaitov

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:05 PM

Buff Mage Classes, thank you.

 

More than buffing mages(wizzes), Bowling Bash should be nerfed.

 

It deals 500% ATK in one hit (1000% if you position correctly I think), costs 22SP and has a very short cast time and delay allowing it to be spammed. On the other hand, us wizzes have AoEs with a lenghty cast time and cast delay (5s when not in strings) that will more often than not leave some survivors (SG freeze, MS missing) making us take even longer to kill a mob. Also remember you gotta prep before you cast your AoE by casting your wall of choice and maybe quagging the floor.

 

This would balance itself if SP regen items weren't so easy to obtain since knights are 1 int brutes with a pitiful SP pool, but WoE pots enabled them to break their SP limitation and allowed them to stomp over every other class since the server opened.

 

Also don't forget they have the highest HP pool in the game and access to a peco while us wizzes are the squishiest class and... tbh our only saving grace is that we have a little bit of utility in our kit in the form of walls and stone curse.

 

Maybe if that skill gets nerfed the Knight:Leecher meta will change towards real parties. The only moments I get to play wiz is during guild parties and WoE. Quite sad :( .


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#7 Alezzia

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 09:25 PM

so, you want to  give sins arrrows and  edp + every skill XD

 

 just learn how to play in new mechanic

  sins is awesome

 

Are we playing the same game? Cause sins right now are absolute garbage and the only reason someone might make one is for RP reasons.

 

Other than that every other class can not only do their job, but they can do it even better. That is for both PvE and PvP.


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#8 Varcieh

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 08:36 AM

Buff Mage Classes, thank you.



^ this.

I realize the reason wiz (and Hwiz in a few weeks) suck atm us because their MATK is balanced for third cls stats/skills and gears which would be even more op if you would buff Matk now.

Problem is, until we get to that state its gonna be years. Or we wont even get to it coz nobody plays anymore lol.

So can we maybe get a some love for wiz cls until 3rd cls come out?
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#9 rhudaudadua

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 09:00 AM

Make sinx useable pls
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#10 Ashuckel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:32 AM

do not touch any aspect of Sins/SinXes. Dual wielding+EDP gives them the most monstruous damage in the game as time goes on and new gear becomes avaiable :v


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#11 Namrok

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 03:06 PM

sinx on revoclassic servers alredy godly,  they dont need buffs


Edited by Namrok, 22 February 2018 - 03:06 PM.

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#12 Xellie

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:11 PM

do not touch any aspect of Sins/SinXes. Dual wielding+EDP gives them the most monstruous damage in the game as time goes on and new gear becomes avaiable :v

 

in pvm and there's no promise we'll even get that gear


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#13 Ashuckel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:14 PM

everywhere, just regular ingame drops are 80% of what you need to get a pretty nasty dmg on SinX with renewal EDP.

EDP is dumb.


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#14 Xellie

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:24 PM

wanna clarify what those gears are?


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#15 Ashuckel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:30 PM

for the most part, high refined weapons properly carded.


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#16 Xellie

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:44 PM

Thanks for the technically correct but still completely unhelpful answer. 


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#17 Ashuckel

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 06:49 PM

you're welcome


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#18 Kazuuya

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:25 AM

More than buffing mages(wizzes), Bowling Bash should be nerfed.

 

It deals 500% ATK in one hit (1000% if you position correctly I think), costs 22SP and has a very short cast time and delay allowing it to be spammed. On the other hand, us wizzes have AoEs with a lenghty cast time and cast delay (5s when not in strings) that will more often than not leave some survivors (SG freeze, MS missing) making us take even longer to kill a mob. Also remember you gotta prep before you cast your AoE by casting your wall of choice and maybe quagging the floor.

 

This would balance itself if SP regen items weren't so easy to obtain since knights are 1 int brutes with a pitiful SP pool, but WoE pots enabled them to break their SP limitation and allowed them to stomp over every other class since the server opened.

 

Also don't forget they have the highest HP pool in the game and access to a peco while us wizzes are the squishiest class and... tbh our only saving grace is that we have a little bit of utility in our kit in the form of walls and stone curse.

 

Maybe if that skill gets nerfed the Knight:Leecher meta will change towards real parties. The only moments I get to play wiz is during guild parties and WoE. Quite sad :( .

Wow. I disagree with this post so much I was compelled to post on the forums. That...rarely ever -_- happens.

 

The damage from bowling bash is fine. I've played this game since 2004 and it's always been a strong skill limited only by its SP consumption. Let's be honest though, a single knight in woe doesn't do enough damage even with bowling bash to stand there soloing classes like it's dynasty warriors. That literally does *not* happen, please don't make it sound like it does simply because you're unhappy with your class. The reality is knights are strong in groups. Where I will agree with you is that WoE pots enabled the knight: leech meta. I say enable because you're free to level on any other class however you see fit. You're not forced to play a knight. I've leveled my 1hand battle crusader to 99 with holy cross, a ton of knights, a crit sin, a HC crusader( 2h Spear ), a SW wizard and priest. I still do duo parties with my friends that enjoy them. Ultimately you can play whatever you want, however you want to...you just have to come to terms with the fact that you won't be as efficient as some other classes. The exp disparity is nowhere near as bad as TKMs or biochems bombing their way to victory in Thor's Volcano pre-renewal. As an LK / Paladin player I had to come to terms with the fact that I could not pull TKM / Chem exp. I also couldn't MvP like them or monks. Regardless of efficiency I play what's fun for me, and it's probably why i'm still having a blast on this game after a decade.

 

The fact that wizards are currently in a bad place is a separate matter entirely, and I agree with you there as well. A wizard's damage isn't the problem at the moment ( in pvp ). Their durability is lacking as well as reliable cc in pvp/woe. This is in addition to long cast times for high level abilities. My characters are geared fairly well, and a wiz with a +9/10 EBW combo can almost kill my knight in 1 SG ( assuming i'm not potting ). Their damage is huge, but their HP pool is so low that they die to everything that looks at them wrong. If wizards had better mitigation / more hp / reliable cc / faster cast times the class would be a little more viable in this unlimited potion meta. Mind you those were in no particular order just an observation from an avid pvp/woe enthusiast.

 

If you want to talk about busted i'd like to point you in the direction of the nearest monk or trap hunter. Somehow unlimited mobility( snap ), extreme mitigation ( mental strength ), the ability to cc your enemies ( looking at you decrease agi, freeze, and sleep) in a variety of ways, sight out hidden opponents / prevent them from hiding, and the ability to kill every class in the game in 1 hit all while maintaining enough VIT to resist stun is 100% fair lol. I just laugh and assume one of the devs really loved the monk / hunter classes. The hilarious part of this is that this statement is almost interchangeable between the two classes. The only real difference is a hunter being able to fire their G-Fists at you with arrow shower, and no MS.

 

The point of the above^ was not to cry OP, just to help people realize that there are plenty of borderline OP abilities / playstyles / classes in RO. There are also a few ways to combat them. You simply have to find them, and find what works for you. I carry 8 weapons, 5 armors, 2 garments, 3 clips, 3 headgears, and 4 accessories just to combat the aforementioned. It's a pain in the ass but it's doable. Thank god for battlemode.

 

TL;DR - Please rework the Wizard class to keep them relevant now and in the future. Don't nerf a class when it isn't actually the issue, woe pots are lame / broke the party system, and play what's fun for you regardless of the meta.

TL;DR#2 - If you see some dickhead MVPing on a crusader, it's probably me cause its fun.


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#19 Creaitov

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:15 AM

*snip*

 

Found the Knight player  :heh: .

Now, jokes aside, i'm glad that we agree that the root of the problem are the unlimited potions. Since WP has already shown that they don't want to balance the issue by removing WoE pots (in fact they added infinite straws at the raffler) the next best thing would be to nerf the skill to make it more in line with the rest of the game.

 

About WoE, yes wiz is useful and its dmg its pretty good, we've killed squishies in our precast plenty of times. But the thing is, luckily every class in WoE has a purpose. Wizzes make the main part of the precast, Hunters help with the defense, Monks kill priority targets, etc. I'd say WoE is the only place where knights are balanced lol, they're heavies and hard to kill but they don't do anything special other than soaking dmg while rushing in and trying to break a precast.

 

Outside WoE, sure, you can level solo with wiz (or with any class for that matter) but it feels depressing when what you do takes twice the time and effort compared to knights while getting the same or less rewards. Also I dunno about you but I like proper parties, they make me feel like i'm useful in some way you know? Sadly a knight party will always outperform it =/.

 

PS: I really like the variety of classes requested here.

 

 unknown.png


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#20 Spoon

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:26 AM

Found the Knight player :heh: .

Now, jokes aside, i'm glad that we agree that the root of the problem are the unlimited potions. Since WP has already shown that they don't want to balance the issue by removing WoE pots (in fact they added infinite straws at the raffler) the next best thing would be to nerf the skill to make it more in line with the rest of the game.

About WoE, yes wiz is useful and its dmg its pretty good, we've killed squishies in our precast plenty of times. But the thing is, luckily every class in WoE has a purpose. Wizzes make the main part of the precast, Hunters help with the defense, Monks kill priority targets, etc. I'd say WoE is the only place where knights are balanced lol, they're heavies and hard to kill but they don't do anything special other than soaking dmg while rushing in and trying to break a precast.

Outside WoE, sure, you can level solo with wiz (or with any class for that matter) but it feels depressing when what you do takes twice the time and effort compared to knights while getting the same or less rewards. Also I dunno about you but I like proper parties, they make me feel like i'm useful in some way you know? Sadly a knight party will always outperform it =/.

PS: I really like the variety of classes requested here.

unknown.png


Let's be clear, R>knight/leech, Gunslinger or BB rogue.

There, now we have some diversity lulz
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#21 Kazuuya

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:04 PM

I do like proper parties. Personally duo parties are my jam, or the parties we used to run back in the day in biolabs with knights, paladins, monks, hwiz, scholar, etc. Ya know that -_- was super fun and everything had a place. It's what me and all of my friends thought RE:Start would be when we returned to the game. On a hilarious note mastersmiths being immune to SG was awesome too.
 
I get what you're saying about not feeling relevant, but your proposition is a poor one. Nerfing the only decent damaging ability a knight has because it outperforms a wizard in a PvM setting is retarded. You don't break a class hoping to fix a game when the class isn't the root cause of the problem. You don't break a class simply because you don't like it. You address the cause and/or bring up the other classes so they perform on a level playing field, and if that fails you find a way. Your suggestion would make knights a -_-ty version of a crusader lol. Nothing about that is "bringing the skill in line with the rest of the game."
 
Like I said I feel your pain, but asking for class nerfs because you *feel* like you have to put in more effort than they do is not the way. Honestly it isn't even accurate considering the monetary / time investment you have to put in to actually be *good* on the class anyway...gear and skill included. Hopefully transcendent classes can restore some semblance of balance to the game since I seriously doubt the game was balanced with first job classes in mind.
 
Most people tend to take the path of least resistance to achieve their goals ( like in your picture ), but that doesn't mean you have to. Don't be depressed because your class is difficult. You should feel fulfilled and accomplished because you've done something that most people haven't. You won't see me MvPing on a monk or hunter, but you also won't see me crying for their classes to be nerfed because they mvp better than I do. Just sayin.

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#22 Creaitov

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:24 PM

 

*snip*

 

 

I think we got lost in the "oh no wiz sucks" part and you missed what my point was so lets forget about that for a while.

BB outperforms everyone, not only wizzes. The only other comparable AoE is Desperado but even then a gunner needs more gears to make it work properly AND doesn't have the increased weight limit of str classes nor the speed advantage of a peco so your mobbing will be generally less efficient. Also desperado costs like 3 times more than BB while doing similar dmg, although RNG reliant.

 

This leads us to this crappy situation where unless you want to solo until 99 you have to make a knight (or maybe a BB rogue or GS depending on how tolerant the party leader is) to leech yourself. As a consecuence of this, you can't really play with any class that isn't one of those 3. If you swing the nerf bat and adjust BB numbers a little bit (I never said they had to make it useless, just tone it down) then maybe the knight : leecher meta will stop being better than real parties and we'll start seeing more variety.

 

This isn't a wiz only problem, this affects every class in the server.


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#23 htpgmail

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:59 PM

Bowling Bash needs a nerf. It needs its damage halved and after skill delay doubled.
 

 

You may begin bitching now, but don't worry nothing will happen.


Edited by htpgmail, 23 February 2018 - 04:01 PM.

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#24 Xellie

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:02 PM

Bowling bash needs it's 0.2sec hard delay added from renewal. 


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#25 htpgmail

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:32 PM

Bowling bash needs it's 0.2sec hard delay added from renewal. 

 

Give it a 2 second delay. I don't think .2 sec is enough to promote party play.


Edited by htpgmail, 23 February 2018 - 06:33 PM.

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