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Bot on iRO: The problem, WP Policy, Community Side Help, ETAs and Resolutions.


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#1 S207

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:07 AM

Regards to everyone! I will try to be as organized as I can with this. Before comment, take a minute to read a bit about this:
 
Warpportal EULA - Ragnarok Policy about 3rd party Program - aka bots.
 
 
Many of these toughts come from long time ago, and I am sure some community members will agree with this. 
 

The problem
Items
Since I have memory, Warpportal has zero tolerance with 3rd party programs (bots in the following). What might count as benefit, can be harmful for others. Veteran players/Rich Players got benefits from this problem, we can get good cards/consumables and some ETC items at a good price. For a new player, taking IE an hydra card, then realized it just worth around 2mil, is not even enough to get a good weapon for its character.New players got low income from their items due to bot players.
 
Leveling
Is not equiality the fact a player must pass over X hours to level up, while others just leave the bot running. Is is not right, and this also apply to all the bots leveling their homunculus. Only a player who really raise a homunculu from 0 know the days it must pass to make it loyal, evolve, make it loyal again, raise up to Lv99, making Homun S and loyal it again. The time must be spend to get the homunculus AoE, and a single night AFK drop work of 4 or 5 days in intimacy.
 
The Market
Its widely know many of the merchats at Prontera/Payon are bots. In the mind of a botter, it simplify the work to set a shop. Again this is not equal to everyone, who must set their own shop, it takes time. Unestable connection drops your shop and must setup again. This is the only point where a bot might help, but stills against the rules and it must be pursuet and reported. would be double moral to say it is right, it isnt.
 
Economy
Its a fact, Botters get zeny from it. It helps the inflation we are getting in the server (is not the only factor, that's other topic). Many millions come from the botters, and solve the bot problem might help a bit, just a bit in this other proble. For players who do not bot, we must face the fact we must do instances or other kind of activities to earn zeny. Farming low-level items do not worth the time, since bots can farm it in huge quantities, a player can not compete against that. (described on Items problem.)
 
I am sure there are more problems coming from bots, but I am trying to get it to the point. Then, known all this, What is the WarpPortal Policy and rules against this?
 
WP Policy
As described before, they talk something about this in the EULA 14 bis A:
 
LkKKSrY.png
 
In short words, they are able to terminate your account (in short words, they can ban you for this). I am sure there are more sections where they talk about it, and some GMs has noted they have zero tolerance, but this point its just about this.
 
Community Side Help.
Players Side
Then, we, the players can do something?
Yes! we can, there are some things we can do to report this behavior. There are two main paths:

  • The forum: There are a section where you can report the bot problem, in my opinion this is focus to entire maps instead a single player. You can view this thread. In my opinion this is in the wrong section (Community Chat > Community Contest and Events), must be in the same as Ragnarok:Restart section (under Technical Support). The format to use its described in the OP.
  • Ticket System: ... (Heavy Breath). This option its mostly for single player report, as noted on the FAQ. They suggest to take a good screenshot and record about the player in this behavior, and they will do their best effort to do something against this.

44UPQF8.png
 
So far, this is the only thing a player can do, following the paths WP has set.
 
WarpPortal Side:
On the other side, we have what does Warp Portal do with our evidence, the material we have got. We can only hope they will do their best effort to review the data we have been collected, and take proper actions if the guilty is proven. But, as many of us known, Unfortunately, they can not disclose any information due to confidentiality purposes and this kind of information is consider as a company intellectual property. (or something like that, you know the whole text)
 
Now, we have seen a bot, we record it and take some screenshots, send it to Warpportal and then what? 
 
Elapse Time Aprox (ETA)
Now that we have reported the player we suspect is a bot, what are the ETAs to see any action?
This is something a player can not answer, But in the words of some GMs, it takes time to track down the player and do proper test. In my opinion, it may varies depends on the GM who respond to your ticket. I have some tickets open, and it has pass a whole week and I see the same bot doing the same thing. I will try to start achieve a record of all my tickets and time of resolution. But thats all a player can do.
 
Resolutions.
We can not know the resolutions, but if we saw the same player after your ticket become closed, you can assume the resolution.
 
 
===================================================================================================================================
 
I have escalate my concerns about this many times with no good responses, but still I assume they are doing something. After many reports, I think i will stop doing this, I do not get the point of Warpportal to ask for evidence, if they will discard it and will track down the player to see by their own eyes. And it probably wont solve the problem, there are some "smart" bots wich appearantly its hard for GMs to difference. 
 
The second thing I can suggest, its to retake the Airstrike Threat actively, and put even more effort to this. The Oda Initiative on Tiki Tuesdays was good, Oda used to take the time to track down bots and ban them, and he did it while streaming. I do now known why they stop it and no one take the Oda's job on it.
 
I have to recognize WP do a exellent job on the Instance/Map Stuck thread, and see a similar job on the Airstrike thread would be good.
 
Is not necesary to mention all the hot spot full of bots on iRO, I am sure they are noted on the Airstrike thread. 
 
What is your experience on WP Ticket System about Bot reports? do you guys do it? Am I the only player who still do this?

 

EDIT:

I almost forget this. Campitor mention something about anti-cheat system on 2017 plans:

ZYxDAp5.png

 

I would like to see this coming true, and IDK if it might stop the bot flow.


Edited by S207, 26 March 2018 - 11:22 AM.

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#2 Nirvanna21

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:15 AM

Every so often I will try to submit a ticket, but usually nothing comes of it; the same can be said for many others... we just gave up due to the poor decisions of the GMs.


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#3 S207

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:19 AM

Im about to gave up on this too. I mean, its impossible to stop the bot flow income, but watching a high geared bot, report it and nothing comes its dissapointing.


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#4 Kusanagisama

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:37 AM

TL;DR


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#5 ClickClickClick

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:41 AM

TL;DR

 

Assuming he's parroting the same crap as always without offering a solution.

 

You know what these "Oh noes, we have a crisis, look at me!" threads do? They make the game look like -_- and drive off new players, someone delete this damned thing already.


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#6 ShoLin

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:42 AM

We already know who cheats. The GMs just could give two bigger excrements about it. If they did something about it, the majority would be gone and the server would die.

 

I've already given up on any hope that they'll do something.

 

You want to bring in new players to see the -_- and tell others not to touch the game with a 10-foot pole? Would I recommend someone new come to this game right now? No. Between the cheaters and trolls that would hamper their experience.


Edited by ShoLin, 26 March 2018 - 11:45 AM.

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#7 S207

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:42 AM


TL;DR
 
 

TL;DR
 
Assuming he's parroting the same crap as always without offering a solution.
 
You know what these "Oh noes, we have a crisis, look at me!" threads do? They make the game look like -_- and drive off new players, someone delete this damned thing already.

 

For those TL;DR Resume:

 

I have escalate my concerns about this many times with no good responses, but still I assume they are doing something. After many reports, I think i will stop doing this, I do not get the point of Warpportal to ask for evidence, if they will discard it and will track down the player to see by their own eyes. And it probably wont solve the problem, there are some "smart" bots wich appearantly its hard for GMs to difference. 
 
The second thing I can suggest, its to retake the Airstrike Threat actively, and put even more effort to this. The Oda Initiative on Tiki Tuesdays was good, Oda used to take the time to track down bots and ban them, and he did it while streaming. I do now known why they stop it and no one take the Oda's job on it.
 
I have to recognize WP do a exellent job on the Instance/Map Stuck thread, and see a similar job on the Airstrike thread would be good.
 
Is not necesary to mention all the hot spot full of bots on iRO, I am sure they are noted on the Airstrike thread. 
 
What is your experience on WP Ticket System about Bot reports? do you guys do it? Am I the only player who still do this?


Edited by S207, 26 March 2018 - 11:44 AM.

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#8 S207

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:48 AM

At least 2 GMs have seen this and they have no  enough reasons to think it is bot:
 
duh edit.

Edited by S207, 26 March 2018 - 12:18 PM.

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#9 ShoLin

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:49 AM

There shouldn't be a stuck thread. This game is riddled with bugs and they still release them. They give us not even a week to test this stuff. Moreover, they should be testing this stuff before it even comes out.

 

I honestly think the bots are the least of our worries now. That's how bad it has come too.


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#10 MrLekkz

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:50 AM

I gave up on reporting bots. I've reported a bot-group hunting scarabas (ranger + mechanic + AB) in 14/12/2016, during spotlight. They never got banned. And what pisses me off the most is that now i see them almost everyday, doing 16.1 prison quests on their 175 characters...

 

 


Edited by MrLekkz, 26 March 2018 - 11:51 AM.

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#11 mildcontempt

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 11:51 AM

I (also) used to put in tickets about bots, but also stopped for lack of any sense of progress to it. The one that broke me was a huge bot assassin train in prontera. I put in the ticket with exact coordinates/route, and was asked to supply screenshots -- so I took about half a dozen to capture multiple names and show that they were all identical. Never got any sense of "they were deleted/banned/purged". Just a vague promise that it will be looked into. 

 

If ever the feature that was being worked on to integrate the bot reporting process with in-game interface came to fruition, I'd start again if only out of convenience. 


Edited by mildcontempt, 26 March 2018 - 11:54 AM.

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#12 VModMango

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:35 PM

Please keep this civil and do not link to anything that can possibly identify players.

 

Please remember, just because someone has a lot of an item does not always mean they are a bot. Some people play the markets heavily and resell items, others simply have huge stockpiles from long time playing the game. These players could innocently be cast into the bot accusations.

 

The forum is not a place for the players to publicly skewer each other or post bot accusations. You can voice your concerns about the current situations but there will be zero tolerance for screenshots, links, or identifying information that can be tied to a player in any way. This includes Shop Names, Ragial links, ROPD links, Guild names, "sounds like ___" and all other attempts to get around using an exact name.


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#13 ShoLin

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:41 PM

I mentioned no guilds, nor any names.


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#14 Nirvanna22

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:43 PM

Bots can be a good thing or a bad thing. :p_smile:  :p_swt:


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#15 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:43 PM

Tl:DR is Warpportal does not uphold their side of the EULA or rules. They might as well just remove the EULA and just say "we don't enforce anything" On very rare occassions do they actually do anything. Sometimes it's literally due to their lack of knowledge about the game they work on. People bot and cheat in ways that are so blatantly obvious to players, but a GM wouldn't bat an eye at it because they are totally clueless.


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#16 VModMango

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:46 PM

I mentioned no guilds, nor any names.

I didn't remove/edit anything of yours?  :p_swt: 

Several others were removed however. Was a general warning to all before it derailed.

what-kind-of-brute.png

:p_devil:


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#17 S207

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:53 PM

Tl:DR is Warpportal does not uphold their side of the EULA or rules. They might as well just remove the EULA and just say "we don't enforce anything" On very rare occassions do they actually do anything. Sometimes it's literally due to their lack of knowledge about the game they work on. People bot and cheat in ways that are so blatantly obvious to players, but a GM wouldn't bat an eye at it because they are totally clueless.


I snip my own video, but regard to what you mention, for me this is obvious a bot, and at least for the GM who is reviewing the ticket for a week, seems like it isnt

[Poring]

Note there is no names on the video, just my own char name and a obvious bot, who seems to be smarter than a couple of GMs


Edited by VModCinnamon, 02 April 2018 - 01:50 PM.
Mod Edit: Removed video, it is a good idea not to post this in public.

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#18 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 12:57 PM

I snip my own video, but regard to what you mention, for me this is obvious a bot, and at least for the GM who is reviewing the ticket for a week, seems like it isnt



Note there is no names on the video, just my own char name and a obvious bot, who seems to be smarter than a couple of GMs

Yeah, that's certainly a bot, no human would spend that long trying to get back on that exact cell.. lol.
 


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#19 Leonchascon

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 01:06 PM

The  bots and the ticket system are only half the problem 

 

The bots

 

The main issue with the bots is not that they farm stuff that you need because i can assure you, almost everyone on end game content has used botted items (strawberries ie), bots DO get banned not 100% of the bots 

 

The biggest issue imho with the bots as someone that has played many games infested w bots on some scale is the RMT the bots sell the items (lets keep  using strawberries as an example) to a merchant and they send the zeny to another  account in a way that doesnt get caught and that 2nd account sells the zeny (maybe more than 2 accounts) 

 

Bots both help the inflation and increase it  and to our """game standart" bots are  part of the economy either we like it or not

 

The Ticket system

 

yes the ticket system  is slow, because is done by real people (even if most of their answers are copy-pasted and sometimes the GMs dont even read everything you say) but it also has many people doing bad reports (not enough info, only screenshots, no context, people showing only half the story, etc)

 

This week alone i have been accused of being a bot lvling my rebel like 3 times, one of them even come and posted on the bot thread a SS of my char that was removed by cinamon he followed me by a good 3 screens while pming me and saying "bot" to me completly harrasing me, i just kindly ignored him like the other 2 people, but im pretty sure he made a ticket about me, a ticket that someone will have to review, sit through it and maybe even try to find me and interact with me   :heh:

 

So yes the char in your video is 100% a bot, but not all of the people reported by botting are in  fact bots and that slows the ticket system (in conjuction  with all  the crap that get reported like "sum1 KSed me for 150k of  exp bun him pl0x :sob:  :sob:  :sob:  :sob:  :sob:  :sob: " , and as you say on the OP it just takes 10 secs when  the server reopens to see a good  % of the prontera and payon shops are bots that set up 12 items in 1/2 a second

 

Sadly the solution is not on our hands and like Doddler used to say anticheats often become a barrier for players more than they become a barrier for 3rd party software so lets see if anything gets done this year on this issue 

 

 


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#20 ChakriGuard

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 01:28 PM

Not sure why my post which only contained Ygg price on Ragial was removed but ok hahaha

Just read what Mango said, the link was meant to say that price is high because we don’t have Ygg bots. If having lots of items means bots, I must be a bitter because my supplies for WoE and PvM will last before game shuts down :P

Edited by ChakriGuard, 26 March 2018 - 01:36 PM.

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#21 S207

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 01:33 PM

Yeah, that's certainly a bot, no human would spend that long trying to get back on that exact cell.. lol.

 
 

(...)
 
So yes the char in your video is 100% a bot (...)


That replay, with proper information was sent in a ticket a week ago, you think they have done something? No. So whats the point of collect data as evidence if they will discard it?

The lack of knowledge, The actual procedure just do not work, and Warpportal do not show any wish or tough to improve the procedure and test, make it faster and in cases like this, too obvious, they have take a whole week and have done nothing, and it took me like 1 min to realize its a bot.

I suggested to retake the Airstrike Thread and design a person, but they think it does not worth the time and effort. There is nothing we can do against this system.

The best part of all this:

"(...) I understand that you are eager to report this player (...)" Just LOL!!!! Is not the first player I have been reported, and is not the last, but surely they have to face the fact that their Staff do not have the knowledge to difference a bot from a person, If they can not get their work done well, why they still working for WarpPortal? Our money goes to these people pocket.


Edited by S207, 26 March 2018 - 01:44 PM.

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#22 Leonchascon

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 02:21 PM

Last ticket i sent took 20 days for it to get an actual answer the ticket system is always collapsed and we dont know how the ticket system works maybe (and is the most likely scenario) the guy that reads the tickets doesnt check the game,  he  just sends the info for someone to check the guy in the video  or the video itself

 

So a week for a ticket? thats honestly nothing also support afaik only works  mon-fri so how long has it actually been 4 days?, like i said the problem is the  ticket system + stupid reports


Edited by Leonchascon, 26 March 2018 - 02:22 PM.

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#23 Scuba

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 05:42 PM

There really isnt a point of banning a bot. Other than to give you "feel-good" feelings, telling you something was done (or even doing something) is ultimately pointless for the staff and a waste of time.

 

Bot management is impossible to achieve in this game. Anyone that wants to can literally google "Ragnarok Bot" and be up and running within 10 minutes. If you realized that the majority of the population is a bot of some kind, you can begin to understand the magnitude of the problem.

 

Even if they came up with a way to break (bot program) they would see a population collapse. That doesn't look great to papa jRO or shareholders.

 

tl;dr don't waste your time and enjoy the game for what it is, if you still can.


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#24 yamasakai90

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 06:17 PM

I snip my own video, but regard to what you mention, for me this is obvious a bot, and at least for the GM who is reviewing the ticket for a week, seems like it isnt

 

 

I remember these kind of bots. Funny thing happens when u move to the spot that they are locked on to. And they will keep trying to move to that cell that you are on....


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#25 deforte

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Posted 26 March 2018 - 07:09 PM

TL;DR

 

i bet bot is not a problem since gms able to do some action and also, you rarely see any topics why someone got ban coz of bots or other illegal action but gms doing something about it. have faith to WP!

 

i guess its only a problem if you bot and you got ban while others not xD


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