226 replies to this topic

[njosefbeck]

If you do this, there will be no point in building dex to deal with the vct since the FCT + skill cooldown will = 1 second

 

Just so I understand the reasoning correctly here...

 

At maximum, a biochemist would have 1 second cast time for AB, and then a 1 second After Cast Delay/Skill Cool Down (counting them together since they occur at the same time). That makes 2 seconds between when I press the hotkey the first time and when I can press it again to use the skill.

 

With DEX, INT & Strings, the biochemist can effectively reduce it to 0.5 second Fixed Cast Time, and then a 0.5 second Skill Cool Down. Thus the 1 second. Since most biochemists already have a lot of INT, but probably minimal DEX, the number will fall somewhere between 1 - 2 seconds. I guess it wouldn't be worth it for biochems to get more DEX as the difference between 1 and 2 seconds is minimal?

 

If the goal is to force Biochemists to get more DEX, thus taking away points from potentially STR and INT, then yeah I think it makes sense to increase either the Variable Cast Time or the After Cast Delay, but not increase the Fixed Cast Time or the Skill Cool Down.

[Wyndor]

It's just funny all the classes that have forced cool downs but when it's even discussed about being done to biochemists "it's an eternity"

Not to mention its fine allowing them to stay 1 dex build and put their entire stat budget into dmg. You force Champs to require dex yet im sure there won't be a stat reset.

The favoritism is astounding.

3 seconds is an eternity between instant killing of players, sinxs have fun doing 2k soul destroyers that have about that long of a cool down.

^ balance n logic at its best.

Edited by Wyndor, 18 April 2018 - 09:27 AM.

[howudoing]

         

[Xellie]

It's just funny all the classes that have forced cool downs but when it's even discussed about being done to biochemists "it's an eternity"

Not to mention its fine allowing them to stay 1 dex build and put their entire stat budget into dmg. You force Champs to require dex yet im sure there won't be a stat reset.

The favoritism is astounding.

3 seconds is an eternity between instant killing of players, sinxs have fun doing 2k soul destroyers that have about that long of a cool down.

^ balance n logic at its best.

 

yanno most smart champ players get int to reduce their ASURA cast because ASURA has a VCT too. Any champ that didn't get dex either did it on purpose with ASURA in mind, or for some reason didn't get enough int. 

 

No champ needs a reset. And biochems need to be forced to get dex. 

[gustavotri]

yanno most smart champ players get int to reduce their ASURA cast because ASURA has a VCT too. Any champ that didn't get dex either did it on purpose with ASURA in mind, or for some reason didn't get enough int. 

 

No champ needs a reset. And biochems need to be forced to get dex. 

 

+1

 

No more, this is not a private server !!

 

 

Edited by gustavotri, 18 April 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[Duardop]

And biochems need to be forced to get dex.

Forcing biochemists to get dex will fix nothing, it will just increase the AB DPS and the crying over the skill being too op will continue.

With fixed cast time the skill can either be interrupted, you can hide, switch gear, etc but ppl is too lazy to do their homework.

Plus dex will increase damage output as it's easier to increase AB damage per atk than per matk so int won't be used much either and the crying will continue.

[Wyndor]

yanno most smart champ players get int to reduce their ASURA cast because ASURA has a VCT too. Any champ that didn't get dex either did it on purpose with ASURA in mind, or for some reason didn't get enough int.

No champ needs a reset. And biochems need to be forced to get dex.

I don't care about the reset. I said it as icing on the cake and your entire response is based around it why exactly?

Yes the entire complaint is they found giving them a cooldown to feel like an eternity while other classes have it much worse. Then they are forcing Champs to require cast reduction all while deciding biochems shouldn't require it.

It's obvious favoritism so they don't upset all the cry babies that are playing biochemist and think it has to be God status.

Forcing biochemists to get dex will fix nothing, it will just increase the AB DPS and the crying over the skill being too op will continue.

With fixed cast time the skill can either be interrupted, you can hide, switch gear, etc but ppl is too lazy to do their homework.

Plus dex will increase damage output as it's easier to increase AB damage per atk than per matk so int won't be used much either and the crying will continue

The point is everyone else required dex and they don't so they can spend their entire stat budget on damage. Requiring dex lowers their dmg like it does everyone else's.

Edited by Wyndor, 18 April 2018 - 11:15 AM.

[Xellie]

Forcing biochemists to get dex will fix nothing, it will just increase the AB DPS and the crying over the skill being too op will continue.

With fixed cast time the skill can either be interrupted, you can hide, switch gear, etc but ppl is too lazy to do their homework.

Plus dex will increase damage output as it's easier to increase AB damage per atk than per matk so int won't be used much either and the crying will continue.

 

I'm in favour of a fixed/variable combo. not so much in favour of a single skill cooldown that can't be reduced by strings if it's over 0.2 sec. 

[Xellie]

I don't care about the reset. I said it as icing on the cake and your entire response is based around it why exactly?

Yes the entire complaint is they found giving them a cooldown to feel like an eternity while other classes have it much worse. Then they are forcing Champs to require cast reduction all while deciding biochems shouldn't require it.

It's obvious favoritism so they don't upset all the cry babies that are playing biochemist and think it has to be God status.

The point is everyone else required dex and they don't so they can spend their entire stat budget on damage. Requiring dex lowers their dmg like it does everyone else's.

 

 

but champ cast reduction is also their damage stat .-.

[Kureiya]

So we can fix exp and hp ratios over odin temple. It should have their full hp skelg bkue should have more than 300k 100k secondary crestures. Them giving 4 or 7 times exp. We r at the same point than before juperos nerf. People just stack their characters in 2 maps and not the news one. So please fix abyss exp dmg(low magic dmg them grow up the physical and fix poor exp) u need to think if ur map new cant fight against bio2 it going to be empty just people going to kill mvp mini boss them desert again. We need more places to party up or lvl up alone. Odin could be the perfect place for snipers but exp was just too low to think on it.

[Wyndor]

but champ cast reduction is also their damage stat .-.

Int alone is not enough to reduce zen which you have to cast twice after already waiting 3 seconds just to recover sp. Hence why i said this patch is a straight up nerf to Champs.

[Xellie]

Int alone is not enough to reduce zen which you have to cast twice after already waiting 3 seconds just to recover sp. Hence why i said this patch is a straight up nerf to Champs.

 

not really - instant cast zen nullified the usage of absorb sphere which is an important part of champ combat. If you played champ you'd know this.

 

Also they were never meant to have instant zen, it was a mistake made by the people who editted the skill scripts. Infact you are lucky because on renewal zen is a FIXED cast and you're getting a stat based cast, unlike biochems who are retaining their fixed cast.

 

Also it could be worse, you could be playing a sinx.  

[Wyndor]

not really - instant cast zen nullified the usage of absorb sphere which is an important part of champ combat. If you played champ you'd know this.

Also they were never meant to have instant zen, it was a mistake made by the people who editted the skill scripts. Infact you are lucky because on renewal zen is a FIXED cast and you're getting a stat based cast, unlike biochems who are retaining their fixed cast.

Also it could be worse, you could be playing a sinx.

Do you ever read what you're replying to? I never said zen should be instant. I said it's a nerf to Champs because you still have idiots in the other thread saying "omggg don't buff Champs" because they can't do basic math and somehow see this as a buff. The 3 second sp cool down shouldn't exist if that amount of time between acid bombs is an eternity since Champs are essentialy useless for over double that between gfists and I might add gfist has actual counters. Perhaps we should make biochems require a dispellable buff that can also be stolen by other biochems just to use acid demo n see how much they enjoy having actual counters outside of an entire guild stacking support spells to stop you.

If biochemist were held to the same standards and rules as everyone else this wouldn't be a discussion.

Sinx forced to get one sd for 2k every 3 seconds in woe, that's fine. Biochems a 10k+ nuke every 3 seconds and it's an eternity. Funny stuff.

Edited by Wyndor, 18 April 2018 - 12:10 PM.

[Mahinahehe]

The Odin temple hp:exp ratio..       It's just awful.

 

Skogul - 0.17
Skeggiold - 0.14

Frus - 0.15

Gj WP! 

[Xellie]

Do you ever read what you're replying to? I never said zen should be instant. I said it's a nerf to Champs because you still have idiots in the other thread saying "omggg don't buff Champs" because they can't do basic math and somehow see this as a buff. The 3 second sp cool down shouldn't exist if that amount of time between acid bombs is an eternity since Champs are essentialy useless for over double that between gfists and I might add gfist has actual counters. Perhaps we should make biochems require a dispellable buff that can also be stolen by other biochems just to use acid demo n see how much they enjoy having actual counters outside of an entire guild stacking support spells to stop you.

If biochemist were held to the same standards and rules as everyone else this wouldn't be a discussion.

 

 

When acid bomb is doing over 100k+ per shot come back to me about how champs don't need a cooldown.

 

Also the exact same counters apply to asura in a gvg. You can't safety wall on ME so you get sac. Asura can't be neutered with gear unlike acid bomb, so there's that. I find myself dying to asura even with DR/GR/cranial/poo. Asura works on barricades and stones, Acid bomb does not do damage because they have 1 vit. Etc etc etc, I feel like we're playing different games. 

 

Sinx forced to get one sd for 2k every 3 seconds in woe, that's fine. Biochems a 10k+ nuke every 3 seconds and it's an eternity. Funny stuff. 

 

 

You know sinx SD only does like 2~3k damage max right? Even with edp on. That's not because biochems are overpowered, it's because they destroyed edp with renewal. SD was never good in WoE except for fully godded and mvp using builds. Mostly because SD has a shorter cast range than most skills. 

 

https://yourlogicalf...com/false-cause

Edited by Xellie, 18 April 2018 - 12:16 PM.

[veinzjj]

Wyndoooooooooooooooor is lit.        

[Spoon]

It's always refreshing to see wyndor saying rediculous things on the forums.

Brightens my day

[Wyndor]

When acid bomb is doing over 100k+ per shot come back to me about how champs don't need a cooldown.

Also the exact same counters apply to asura in a gvg. You can't safety wall on ME so you get sac. Asura can't be neutered with gear unlike acid bomb, so there's that. I find myself dying to asura even with DR/GR/cranial/poo. Etc etc etc, I feel like we're playing different games.


You know sinx SD only does like 2~3k damage max right? Even with edp on. That's not because biochems are overpowered, it's because they destroyed edp with renewal. SD was never good in WoE except for fully godded and mvp using builds. Mostly because SD has a shorter cast range than most skills.

https://yourlogicalf...com/false-cause

Champs can be dispelled, fiber locked, their sp stolen/removed, spheres stolen. A dispel now doesn't mean much because instant zen. When it requires 3 seconds to be gfist ready again it does mean something.

All you need is a remotely on point sage to shut down a champ that is trying to come on your ME to gfist something.

Compare this to a biochemist and your choices are build 1 vit or be sacrificed and give your paladin carpal tunnel out potioning biochems in strings. The fact the biochemist can stay under the protection of their paladin n such while doing damage and the champ is essentially doing a suicide run is also something to consider.

You have a very dumb way of looking at things. I point out an imbalance and you say ohh sinx doesn't suck because biochemist are good. Where did I say there is a total damage amount that is cut into pie slices and distributed to the classes? No one ever claimed this. No one said ohh sinx was nerfed by x amount so it could be given to biochemists. I pointed out they don't apply the 3 second cool down being an eternity when it comes to other classes and you make some dumb comment as if it's not a fair point to make.

If you manage to die to gfist with cranial, dr, gr, poo you really should quit playing the game. I know you like useless 99 agi builds but come on now. My champ gfists for 150k+ and with all those reductions I doubt I would be able to do 10k dmg which I assume your sinx atleast has.

Obviously edp is crap now but that does not mean you can't point out their bias when it comes to cool downs and overall dps through put.

[needmorezleep]

monks can still snap in fiberlock tho

[Xellie]

Champs can be dispelled, fiber locked, their sp stolen/removed, spheres stolen. A dispel now doesn't mean much because instant zen. When it requires 3 seconds to be gfist ready again it does mean something.

All you need is a remotely on point sage to shut down a champ that is trying to come on your ME to gfist something.

 

 

A speedpotting champ can fist someone and kill their sac - I've played sage pretty devotedly and I'm pretty good at shutting them down, but sometimes you're doing other things. 

 

As for champs being fibered, are you serious? Snap deals with that. If you're talking about a champ having his spheres stolen and fibered that's 1 vs 2 and you deserve it for getting into that position in the first place. 

 

A champ should never win a fight against a sage, period. Dispell should always shut them down. It doesn't matter if you have instant zen or it takes 3 YEARS to cast. It's the same result every time. 

 

 

Compare this to a biochemist and your choices are build 1 vit or be sacrificed and give your paladin carpal tunnel out potioning biochems in strings. The fact the biochemist can stay under the protection of their paladin n such while doing damage and the champ is essentially doing a suicide run is also something to consider.

 

 

you can string and sac champs too. We do it. It's efficient and awesome. 

 

 

If you manage to die to gfist with cranial, dr, gr, poo you really should quit playing the game. I know you like useless 99 agi builds but come on now. My champ gfists for 150k+ and with all those reductions I doubt I would be able to do 10k dmg which I assume your sinx atleast has.

 

 

Here's my build babe. Sorry the champs I play vs are apparently stronger than the ones I'm allied to!  (22k hp with lutie, fyi)

 

 

 

Obviously edp is crap now but that does not mean you can't point out their bias when it comes to cool downs and overall dps through put.

 

 

Look, something has to be strong. If it's not acid bomb then it would just be LKs online. 

 

I think I know what I'm talking about, my guild is doing pretty well. We're not the best but I've been tutoring my members on basic gvg and we're not wiping to acid bomb. 

[laquintinie]

Just to point out I agree with 99% of what Wyndor is saying, he's not a point out of the curve. Or maybe we're two points out of the curve lmao.

 

And champs can snap out of fiber lock but if he's running towards your guild with speed potion, that blocks this single strike.

 

tl;dr the cooldown should be on GFist only and not a whole SP cooldown.

[Xellie]

Just to point out I agree with 99% of what Wyndor is saying, he's not a point out of the curve. Or maybe we're two points out of the curve lmao.

 

And champs can snap out of fiber lock but if he's running towards your guild with speed potion, that blocks this single strike.

 

tl;dr the cooldown should be on GFist only and not a whole SP cooldown.

 

 

If it's gfist only they can sphere and snap away after fisting. I think fist should leave you exposed, not able to do that. 

[laquintinie]

Aren't you exposed enough if you're in the range of the other guild's biochemists though? If they give you enough time to finish the gfist, cast a sphere and snap...

 

PS: besides the whole biochemists x champs thing, sinx are still underpowered and that also sucks, even though we don't have soul linkers yet.

Edited by laquintinie, 18 April 2018 - 12:50 PM.

[Xellie]

Aren't you exposed enough if you're in the range of the other guild's biochemists though? If they give you enough time to finish the gfist, cast a sphere and snap...

 

PS: besides the whole biochemists x champs thing, sinx are still underpowered and that also sucks, even though we don't have soul linkers yet.

 

Well generally speaking when you fist someone you'll end up stacked with the enemy and hard to target. Just my own experience from playing champ, never had a problem getting out and my reactions are pretty slow

[Varcieh]

Exact percent rates are absolutely not being released nor were they promised. Campitor has stated many times that kRO forbids release of exact rates and has only offered ranged rates (such as 75% to 51% for a common drop and 5% to 1% for a rare item) in the past with their permission.

 

Really? We cant know the % drops of items of a 15 year old game?