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Dilemma with OCP item utility


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#1 Scuba

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:34 PM

So this phenomenon has been happening for quite a long time now... Up until this point the issue has been relatively harmless, but the trend going forward is worrisome. It seems that many OCP items are misaligned from what their application should intuitively be. What I mean is that OCP items that appear to be class-specific are usable by all classes. In most cases, these are accessories and headgears that boost up an underutilized skill to make it more viable (example: Enforcer shoes, Mechanical Plant hat, Rebellion's Scarf).
 
However, in the past some of these - call them 'themed' items have had their identity stripped away because their side effects are more beneficial to other classes. This causes a bit of a balance problem, and a build diversity problem. Take Giant's Protection for example, clearly the intention was to give HSCR Mechanics an option to be more useful, since HSCR is a fairly obsolete skill. It synergizes naturally with what a Mechanic is trying to do; get 120 str. It grants a large amount of flat attack because HSCR is raw attack based. Unfortunately, players realized that the accessory gave a tremendous amount of attack for the slot, and it actually became more useful on almost any other class than it was intended. Why? Because the accessory was designed based on the parameters and needs of the Mechanic class, and the bonuses needed to make their skill stronger.
 
Another example that surprised me was King of Spirit Ring. It seems pretty clear cut its designed to make Sorc more 'spammy'. But it ended up actually being used it to reduce Dragon Breath after cast delay for RK.
 
What are the benefits? Well, for one, it allows people to come up with creative uses for items. Using things "against the grain" can be satisfying if you can pull it off and push your build to the limits a little more. The straight-forward application isn't always the most interesting. Secondly, it allows more people to benefit from any given OCP box, which means more box sales, so it financially beneficial at the surface level. It can be argued that it is financially damaging in the long term, but that is neither here, nor there.
 
I have included a list below of all the OCP items i could find that fit into the scope of this topic. It seems that there is a philosophical disconnect between the original intent of these items. Both thematically and in a balance sense. I believe the following items should be reviewed and re-bound to the classes they are intuitively created for.
 
Devil's Hand 
Spoiler
 
Emerald Ring 
Spoiler
 
Gray Wing Boots 
Spoiler
 
Valkyrie Drop 
Spoiler
 
Storm Stone [1] 
Spoiler
 
Survivor's Orb 
Spoiler
 
Rebellion's Scarf [1] 
Spoiler
 
Imperial Glove 
Spoiler
 
Enforcer Shoes 
 
Spoiler
 
Royal Guard Necklace 
Spoiler
 
Mechanical Plant Hat [1] 
Spoiler
 
Bio Protector 
Spoiler
 
Blacksmith's Gloves 
Spoiler
 
Giant's Protection [1] 
Spoiler
 
Imperial Ring [1] 
Spoiler
 
Celine's Brooch [1] 
Spoiler
 
Shadow Ring 
Spoiler
 
Arch Bishop Ring 
Spoiler
 
Keraunos 
Spoiler
 
Enforcer Cape
Spoiler
 
Thieves' Guide Vol. 1
Spoiler
 
Cylinder Hairband [1]
Spoiler
 
Pororoca Shoes
Spoiler
 
Emerald Earrings
Spoiler
 
Sapphire Wrist
Spoiler
 
Rose of Eden
Spoiler
 
King of Spirit Ring
Spoiler
 
Fallen Monk Rosary
Spoiler
 
Elemental Towel
Spoiler

Edited by Scuba, 18 May 2018 - 01:26 AM.

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#2 ChakriGuard

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 01:52 PM

I really appreciate your efforts to gather information and make this thread. Let’s hope something will be done ~
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#3 3025140119203620510

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:02 PM

A lot of cash items are also still broken and not working properly as well. 


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#4 Usurper

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

I think it's too late, I think they don't have enough time or people to review everything and re-balance everything out since all of these have been paid for. If  they change things they need to at least refund people as well.

 

Oh and I don't think Shadow Ring should be included here since it really benefits only Rogue class, I don't see other classes getting anything from this item.


Edited by Usurper, 17 May 2018 - 02:08 PM.

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#5 kappakeepokupo

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:05 PM

Giant's Protection is supposed to have additional effects no? Not just boosting HSCR damage. So it's not really mechanic specific.


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#6 Bohem

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:07 PM

I like the idea but I would say it won't happen lol


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#7 ChakriGuard

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:23 PM

How many Mechanics left in game to complain? Few. I bet you can count the number because he population is so small. That’s why there was actually no complaints when GP was made for everyone. If you revert it back to Mech item only, I can guarantee hell would break loose while only few to none Mech players appreciate it.

Same to Imperial Glove. They simply just removed the 2 seconds after cast delay and made it for everyone. Mind you the only effects left are RG exclusive such as a Cannon spear and Overbrand buff. Now what’s the damn point of making it for everyone to use? I really doubt they could not make it RG exclusively and kept after cast delay. Remember that when this happened, no one complained either. Where would we get the complaints when there was no one playing RG?

It comes down to the majority vs minority talkz
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#8 Nirvanna21

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM

Giant's Protection is supposed to have additional effects no? Not just boosting HSCR damage. So it's not really mechanic specific.

 

How many Mechanics left in game to complain? Few. I bet you can count the number because he population is so small. That’s why there was actually no complaints when GP was made for everyone. If you revert it back to Mech item only, I can guarantee hell would break loose while only few to none Mech players appreciate it.

Same to Imperial Glove. They simply just removed the 2 seconds after cast delay and made it for everyone. Mind you the only effects left are RG exclusive such as a Cannon spear and Overbrand buff. Now what’s the damn point of making it for everyone to use? I really doubt they could not make it RG exclusively and kept after cast delay. Remember that when this happened, no one complained either. Where would we get the complaints when there was no one playing RG?

It comes down to the majority vs minority talkz

 

'-


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#9 3025140119203620510

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:27 PM

Only 2 mechanic left in the servers. Doral and Chesterfield wkwkwkwk


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#10 ChakriGuard

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:30 PM

Only 2 mechanic left in the servers. Doral and Chesterfield wkwkwkwk


RGs left I can count: Holidays, Jellbee, and Noparking

Well ... lol
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#11 DieNasty

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:49 PM

Another example that surprised me was King of Spirit Ring. It seems pretty clear cut its designed to make Sorc more 'spammy'. But it ended up actually being used it to reduce Dragon Breath after cast delay for RK.

 

Is the King of Spirit Ring really that OP for RK? Everything about this ring shows Sorc's skills.

 

Spirit King's Ring [1]
This ring contains the power of the Spirit King.
Class: Accessory
Weight: 20
Required Level: 50
Required Jobs: All Jobs
Vit + 5
Reduces the variable casting time of Varetyr Spear by 1.5 seconds.
Reduces the variable casting time of Warmer by 50%.
Reduces the fixed casting time of Warmer by 50%.
Reduces the cast delay of skills by 5%.
Reduces the cooldown of Diamond Dust and Earth Grave by 2 seconds.
Reduces the cooldown of Varetyr Spear by 0.5 seconds.
Reduces the cooldown of Warmer by 15 seconds.
Increases the damage of Diamond Dust and Earth Grave by 1% for every 8 base levels.

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#12 carbinemortiser

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 02:53 PM


Is the King of Spirit Ring really that OP for RK? Everything about this ring shows Sorc's skills.


Not anymore. FLP + pdm is better.
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#13 YongkySH

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 08:31 PM

Blacksmith glove doesnt have class specific bonus

Cylinder, i doubt non gene would equip this headgear, unless i miss something?
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#14 Casval17

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:11 PM

Only 2 mechanic left in the servers. Doral and Chesterfield wkwkwkwk

 
Add Martin & Bridget, Lucky Ben and myself to the Mechanic player roster

RGs left I can count: Holidays, Jellbee, and Noparking
Well ... lol


Add Omamori Himari, En Garde and myself to the RG player roster
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#15 yamasakai90

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:21 PM

Only 2 mechanic left in the servers. Doral and Chesterfield wkwkwkwk

 

When you realise they are the same person. So 1 left and soon to be gone. A canadian receiving a refund out of nowhere.


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#16 ChakriGuard

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:25 PM


Add Martin & Bridget, Lucky Ben and myself to the Mechanic player roster


Add Omamori Himari, En Garde and myself to the RG player roster


There might be some more people who actually Main RGs left. I don’t really PvM so I know these two from WoE and one from forums. They are also old timers. I barely log in game for months now xD
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#17 Doral

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 12:59 AM

Only 2 mechanic left in the servers. Doral and Chesterfield wkwkwkwk

 

you failed son

 

i

 

 

am

 

 

 

i'm not even kidding


Edited by Doral, 14 July 2018 - 06:44 AM.

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#18 Scuba

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:00 AM

Blacksmith glove doesnt have class specific bonus

Cylinder, i doubt non gene would equip this headgear, unless i miss something?

 

This is true, but in the case of Cylinder is there a reason any other class *should* be able to equip it? With blacksmith glove, what class is included in the name of the item? That should clue you in to where it should belong. Blacksmith classes desperately needed an item like BSG to get them on par with other classes. Unfortunately when other classes used their item they fell just as far behind as they were to begin with.

 

Its not a matter of what is OP or not. Its a matter of does it make sense? Mostly this is an issue of inconsistency. We know that WP can't exactly foresee how an item might be abusable by other classes. So to err on the side of caution it is best to leave items to the classes of which they were intended.

 

I was reluctant to give any specific examples because I thought they might get nitpicked (which they were). But the heart of the matter is that there are items that are specifically assigned to certain classes to help with build diversity that are usable by all.

 

Is it broken that Rebelliion Scarf is usable by all? No. Does it make any sense that its available to all? No.

 

I am just saying it makes sense that items that are slanted toward a certain class are usable by that class only (and maybe shadow chaser because of Reproduce and Intimidate).


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#19 ChaoticRK

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:01 AM

There might be some more people who actually Main RGs left. I don’t really PvM so I know these two from WoE and one from forums. They are also old timers. I barely log in game for months now xD


I think Marty would be one of 'em.
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#20 gorgoroth1

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:22 AM

off topic... do jro have those shadow costume gear?


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#21 ChaoticRK

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:29 AM

off topic... do jro have those shadow costume gear?


jRO has OCP
kRO has shadow quips
iRO has both
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#22 gorgoroth1

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 01:56 AM

jRO has OCP
kRO has shadow quips
iRO has both

well said :)


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#23 Wolfen

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:25 AM

After reading this, does the storm stone/ peuz set buff stays if ypu change equip after casting aura blade. Because that might give a mini kiel with other gear (flp + Ea faw), so it does feal like a great buff for DB build
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#24 fenrir99

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:54 AM

After reading this, does the storm stone/ peuz set buff stays if ypu change equip after casting aura blade. Because that might give a mini kiel with other gear (flp + Ea faw), so it does feal like a great buff for DB build


Yes, you can set a macro to swap and cast Aura Blade from time to time
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#25 ChaoticRK

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 11:54 AM

After reading this, does the storm stone/ peuz set buff stays if ypu change equip after casting aura blade. Because that might give a mini kiel with other gear (flp + Ea faw), so it does feal like a great buff for DB build


It does. The real question is, can you keep up?
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