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#1 HastyPudding

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 07:49 AM

First off, back when I last played actively, it was long before the current merge (like over a year and a half). That being said, I'm not entirely fluent with the current updates, mechanics, and metagame. Also, I play on Hammerine, if that helps the answers.

My questions:

1. I'm leaning toward Protector for the self-sustainability with the heals and shield bonuses. PvP isn't a big whoopalah with me, as I have a Defiler for that, so this is more of a PvE-only character, with the option of PvP for fun. Even still, nobody seems to give a definitive answer on this: which class is the better tank for PvE, Protector or Commander? Do either gain more bonuses to taunt skills? Other than offensive capabilities, what's the difference?

2. As to weapon usage, I'm leaning toward swords, although maces seem interesting. Unless I miss my guess (or the mechanics have changed) swords are faster and weaker, maces are slower and stronger, and axes are the in-between? As a pure PvE tank, which one would be better?

3. What is the goal I'm shooting for for HP, defenses, and gear?

4. I've looked around the forums, and nothing seems to catch my eye as helpful information. Is there a good Protector skill/DNA build out there, focusing on tanking? Are defender builds dependent on the usual 'skill what you need to lvl, then reskill at a higher level' pattern or can that be bypassed?

Edited by HastyPudding, 31 December 2010 - 07:50 AM.

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#2 Kishandra

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 10:07 AM

Protectors are a class you'll have a real love/hate relationship with. Very durable but slow to level. Good luck if you chose to continue.

as for answers to your questions:

1) Protectors heals arent as powerful as they once were, however they should be more then enough to keep you alive if you're careful with agro. Protector has far more valuable skills for PVE then a commander. Protector has Low Blow for a skill, massive damage and adds hostility, Its a good third taunting skill. Protectors party oriented skills makes for a much easier raid/ dungeon run for everyone.

2)Weapon depends on how many points you want to put into quick attack. Kushephoons Devil Sword is great for a tank, but lacks damage. I suggest using 1 for raids and another for damage. For a pure PVE party tank I would take a 1 handed sword, save the skill points you would put in Quick attack and use them for taunts/ protector skills.

3)HP goal is 8k, higher for Biskra Doom Cheras and LW. Defense you'll want at least 2.8k (thats where it gets noticeably harder to reduce damage taken with defense) Gear- as always the best you can get.

4)Protector doesnt use many defender skills while leveling, if you want to just grab aggro and auto attack then you wont need a skill reset, but if you want to actually do something while leveling to 50 I would say one point in the attack skills make it a lot more enjoyable.
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#3 HastyPudding

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 10:25 AM

Thanks for the response. I don't mind the slow leveling. If it's any comparison, I leveled a knight->commander in KalOnline from 1-74, which means months of crappy attack and slow leveling in conjunction with very high defenses. I'm well-suited to the 'love/hate' relationship associated with most tanks.

I just hear too many bad things about protectors, probably because people are more PvP-oriented in this game, making commanders more favorable, I guess. Still, I just like having the massive defense and tanking capabilities.

What about the personal buffs that defenders get? Should I maximize all protector skills? Is it possible to have too much taunt?

Edited by HastyPudding, 31 December 2010 - 10:28 AM.

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#4 Kishandra

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 10:36 AM

spiritual intensification + DNA is godly, can almost replace the defender defense buffs. Never possible to have too much taunt, when a raid boss will keep you stunned for 5 seconds as the ranged characters pluck away at it the extra aggro is nice, only toons to ever out aggro me where rangers/ avengers with 40%+ crit rate and high damage to begin with.
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#5 HastyPudding

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 10:39 AM

spiritual intensification + DNA is godly, can almost replace the defender defense buffs. Never possible to have too much taunt, when a raid boss will keep you stunned for 5 seconds as the ranged characters pluck away at it the extra aggro is nice, only toons to ever out aggro me where rangers/ avengers with 40%+ crit rate and high damage to begin with.


Thanks, again. ^^

Are there any skills that I should not get, at all? Are there skills that MUST be maxed?
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#6 Kishandra

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 11:58 AM

i dont bother with the defender attack skills or shield strike, no real need to stun anything in PVE. fighting will and physical blessing should only be 1 filler point as well, maximize taunts, but no need to lose points in heals and defense to squeeze the last point or two for taunts.

Some will disagree and say taunts should all be level 10, I think 8 or higher works fine
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#7 HastyPudding

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 01:31 PM

i dont bother with the defender attack skills or shield strike, no real need to stun anything in PVE. fighting will and physical blessing should only be 1 filler point as well, maximize taunts, but no need to lose points in heals and defense to squeeze the last point or two for taunts.

Some will disagree and say taunts should all be level 10, I think 8 or higher works fine


Seeing as I'm shirking on the offensive skills and maximizing defense, shouldn't my taunts by maxed? I guess the single-target taunt could be taken down to 8, because I'll probably be tanking more often for AOE parties and such.

skill-calculator: Protector

Look good enough? No idea what to do with my DNA, except Spiritual Intensification. What about Restraint Rescission?
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#8 Syre

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 03:44 PM

I'm no protector but I know how to play the game. Restrint recission removes slow from your character in the battlefield.
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#9 HastyPudding

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 04:38 PM

I'm no protector but I know how to play the game. Restrint recission removes slow from your character in the battlefield.


That doesn't sound very useful in PvE.
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#10 Syre

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 01:41 AM

yea and i think i broke my link but keep 5 in low blow. max sacred hand, lower/drop skin of stone. I say try to max all heals but ofc max restoratioon isnt totally necessary

Edited by Syre, 01 January 2011 - 01:45 AM.

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#11 tally

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 04:27 AM

My Protector build at L66. People say you don't need that much defence - the cap around 2800 certainly exists for reducing autoattack damage. However, for boss damage sometimes more defence does help - RH's Earthshocks hit 1-2k less on my 5k def prot than my friend's at 3k. Anyways, it's not like pure tank prots have got any other skills to put points in TBH!

Got L1 restraint recission and L5 shield strike cos I got pissed at fail PKers and people spamming duel requests, but will remove these if I ever level the toon more.

Also, I read somewhere that while the skill description for low blow says the aggro goes down after L5, it does in fact go up. Regardless, I have it at 6 now cos I accidentally clicked it, and nothing noticable.

For pure tanking around L65 mark, you should hunt down Seamless Polar armour (CON enchants prob better than Def IMO), and DS bludgeon and shield - bludgeons' MND helps with MP and heals, but some swords can have nice HP - and M-C jewel set full of the best HP xeons you can find. As CON goes up with +'s on the armour and jewels, go for the highest + you can get. A tanking Prot needs HP HP HP HP, and more HP.

For fastest solo levelling, you'll probably want a 2-Handed sword and max Quick Attack, with reinforced physical jewels.

If you really want a PvE tank, go prot - the buffs and shield skills make it worth it! I say max the heals too, every HP you can recover counts, and used with reinforced magic jewels (or SL ID if you're rich), you can quite happily duo AoE grind WS etc without a healer.

I have L1 DNA for Restoration, but I guess dropping points out of the Block Defence DNAs (Shield Mastery, Aegis) and putting them in Restoration might be worth it depending on your play style. The Block Defence on prot is plenty high enough for grinding, there's not a single normal mob that should hit though a block. It's only ever needed for bosses IMO, so yea... if you want to tank bosses, go happy with block defence.

End of the day, everyone has their own builds. I like mine and it works for me.

Still, if you're talking best tank in HP terms, a druid with CON armour has more potential with ~1400 HP from Giantising! Stupid Gravity <.<
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#12 HastyPudding

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 10:18 AM

My Protector build at L66. People say you don't need that much defence - the cap around 2800 certainly exists for reducing autoattack damage. However, for boss damage sometimes more defence does help - RH's Earthshocks hit 1-2k less on my 5k def prot than my friend's at 3k. Anyways, it's not like pure tank prots have got any other skills to put points in TBH!

Got L1 restraint recission and L5 shield strike cos I got pissed at fail PKers and people spamming duel requests, but will remove these if I ever level the toon more.

Also, I read somewhere that while the skill description for low blow says the aggro goes down after L5, it does in fact go up. Regardless, I have it at 6 now cos I accidentally clicked it, and nothing noticable.

For pure tanking around L65 mark, you should hunt down Seamless Polar armour (CON enchants prob better than Def IMO), and DS bludgeon and shield - bludgeons' MND helps with MP and heals, but some swords can have nice HP - and M-C jewel set full of the best HP xeons you can find. As CON goes up with +'s on the armour and jewels, go for the highest + you can get. A tanking Prot needs HP HP HP HP, and more HP.

For fastest solo levelling, you'll probably want a 2-Handed sword and max Quick Attack, with reinforced physical jewels.

If you really want a PvE tank, go prot - the buffs and shield skills make it worth it! I say max the heals too, every HP you can recover counts, and used with reinforced magic jewels (or SL ID if you're rich), you can quite happily duo AoE grind WS etc without a healer.

I have L1 DNA for Restoration, but I guess dropping points out of the Block Defence DNAs (Shield Mastery, Aegis) and putting them in Restoration might be worth it depending on your play style. The Block Defence on prot is plenty high enough for grinding, there's not a single normal mob that should hit though a block. It's only ever needed for bosses IMO, so yea... if you want to tank bosses, go happy with block defence.

End of the day, everyone has their own builds. I like mine and it works for me.

Still, if you're talking best tank in HP terms, a druid with CON armour has more potential with ~1400 HP from Giantising! Stupid Gravity <.<


Thanks for all the info. ^^

Most people say keep Low Blow around lvl 5, so I guess I'll stick to that, and put the points in healing skills, instead.

I actually find lvl 1 Chain Slash useful. The extra damage is barely noticeable, but it's always a double strike. I mean, your auto-attack doesn't always hit twice, and it can take a few hits to get it to do that, but using Chain Slash when it comes around feels like a free 'combo'.

PKers I'm not that concerned with; it seems to me that, while a Protector isn't all that good on offense, he can outlast others, or at least prolong the inevitable (maybe help will arrive). As for PvP, I guess your role is a punching bag and distraction. I'm down with that. XD

Also, I was wondering about Aegis of Protection and Sacred Hand. First, is Aegis worth getting? Can you use it on yourself, or just other players? Can Sacred Hand be used on yourself?

Side question: when you use a healing skill and you're targeting a mob, does the skill automatically select you, or do you have to un-target, then target yourself?
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#13 Syre

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 11:43 AM

Sacred hand is good and a better heal than restoration because it heals and then HoT. Restoration is only a HoT. Sacred hand can also be casted on others. Aegis can be casted on others too, I say max all block skills.
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#14 Krimmy

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 12:57 PM

Fun fact!


You want to have as much defense as possible, even if you've reached its cap, because you can have buffs soccer kicked off/ defense down debuff attacks you.



http://forums.warppo...tyle_emoticons/default/happy.gif


The more you know.
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#15 tally

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 04:59 PM

Most people say keep Low Blow around lvl 5

Because the skill description at L6 says it does less aggro than L5. I have heard this is just an error in the description, and it does actually increase still. Maybe this is true, IDK. A prot can probably make do with L5 or less on all taunts as long as you pay attention. I know commies that happily tank with L5 or 6, but as a prot has few skills to spread points between, I prefer maxing them so I can doze a few minutes on easier bosses between taunts :lol:

I actually find lvl 1 Chain Slash useful. The extra damage is barely noticeable, but it's always a double strike. I mean, your auto-attack doesn't always hit twice, and it can take a few hits to get it to do that, but using Chain Slash when it comes around feels like a free 'combo'.

Each to their own! I never have to MP to play with now, but I did take all the defender damage skills to help me level to L60, then reset without them. It might even be worth putting 1 point in each of them just to have skills to play with to stop the AA boredom =/ Your build :unsure:

while a Protector isn't all that good on offense, he can outlast others, or at least prolong the inevitable (maybe help will arrive). As for PvP, I guess your role is a punching bag and distraction. I'm down with that. XD

I duelled a particular SR a couple times; each fight took near 10 minutes - constant game of soccer kicks, joint strikes, and resting while in stealth, while I healed and rebuffed, getting the od low blow in, and restraint recission to escape the slow. Eventually I got bored and spend remaining skill points in Shield Strike and suprised him :wub:
If you don't PvP, save the points I guess.

Also, I was wondering about Aegis of Protection and Sacred Hand. First, is Aegis worth getting? Can you use it on yourself, or just other players? Can Sacred Hand be used on yourself?

Yes it's worth it. Block defence is nice. The skill might say +66 block RATE, but it just means if you successfully block an attack it's reduced by a further 66 damage, ie block DEF. Rate would be the % chance to block you get from say shield fortress. Most mobs don't hit hard enough to make use of Aegis' full block, but bosses can do.

I'd say max all healing skills; they are one of the things that make a prot different to a comm. DNA is a different matter since there's far fewer points. It was a while different story with prots' old heals =/ But are still worth getting...
Example - A prot with decent kit can duo WS (or open map elites etc) with a class with no shared heals, defiler say, doing pulls of 10 mobs at a time, without any rest stops, using just their own heals and reinforced magic jewels (helps lots with MP). A commie can't do that without potting or resting.

Aegis and Sacred Hand can be cast on yourself or others, all the more reason for maxing IMO.

Side question: when you use a healing skill and you're targeting a mob, does the skill automatically select you, or do you have to un-target, then target yourself?

If you're targetting an enemy (mob, player etc), it will heal you. Still, there is a hotkey to select yourself, never use it though.

Disclaimer : I just have a L66 prot. It's not my main toon, and this is how I play it. Seems to work, but there's likely better ways of doing things.

Edited by tally, 01 January 2011 - 05:09 PM.

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#16 HastyPudding

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Posted 01 January 2011 - 05:40 PM

Thanks a bunch for all the information, guys. ^^

My nub is lvl 12, at the moment. It's kinda low, but I split time between him and my lvl 58 (hopefully 59, tonight) defiler.

skill-calculator: Protector

How's it look?
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#17 Kishandra

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 04:02 PM

looks fine and dandy for tanking. must play in a party cause soloing with that could take a long while
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#18 Lanni

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 11:41 PM

My current tank build looks like this. But I'm lvl 71 atm.
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#19 Atanathar

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 12:31 AM

PROTS IN HAMERINNE?YES PLS!!!!!!
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#20 HastyPudding

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 07:28 AM

My current tank build looks like this. But I'm lvl 71 atm.


That's not very good for tanking. There's no low blow, no blocking skills, and more into offense than defense.


PROTS IN HAMERINNE?YES PLS!!!!!!


Not sure if that's sarcasm or the fact that Commanders don't want to act like tanks, but okay. ^^
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#21 Famous

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 05:40 PM

i know of 2 more lvl 79 prots that changed to rad on valdes this week.
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#22 Lanni

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:20 AM

That's not very good for tanking. There's no low blow, no blocking skills, and more into offense than defense.

This build is good both for tanking and for pvp.

Low blow. It's mostly damage skill, it do not so much valuable aggro, compared to taunts. At Kruxena.com you can see in description of Low Blow skill "Aggro damage" and "Aggro+" parameters, for lvl 10 of Low Blow it's only 100+550 of aggro while taunt lvl 1 gives you 1000 "Aggro+" and 10k "Aggro+" at lvl 10. Another disadvantage that "Low blow" have a big cooldown and it can miss. I have Low blow at lvl 1 and I don't have any problems with losing aggro from raid bosses.

Blocking skills. Simply calculation: I've invested max DNA points to Shield mastery intensification, at lvl 10 of the DNA and with lvl 1 of this skill I get 318+35 = 353 to shield blocking. I max "Shield fortress" to boost shield block chance. "Aegis of protection" I left at lvl 1 only to unlock "Shield Fortress" skill. Another calculations: "Aegis of Protection" at lvl 7 (max of available, lvl 78) give only +100 to block and +300 with maxxed DNA. In my case I have +410 Shield blocking with "Aegis of Protection" lvl 1, "Shield mastery" lvl 1 and "Shield Mastery Intensification" DNA lvl 10. 410 is the way better than 335 anyways :unsure:
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#23 Nerthu

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 02:26 AM

a little question to shield fortress. i am not shure about it. it incrase the blockrate. this mean i have more blocks or is it just when i block the blocked dmg is higher?
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#24 Lanni

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 03:35 AM

"Shield Fortress" increase success chance to block with shield.
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#25 HastyPudding

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Posted 04 January 2011 - 09:33 AM

This build is good both for tanking and for pvp.

Low blow. It's mostly damage skill, it do not so much valuable aggro, compared to taunts. At Kruxena.com you can see in description of Low Blow skill "Aggro damage" and "Aggro+" parameters, for lvl 10 of Low Blow it's only 100+550 of aggro while taunt lvl 1 gives you 1000 "Aggro+" and 10k "Aggro+" at lvl 10. Another disadvantage that "Low blow" have a big cooldown and it can miss. I have Low blow at lvl 1 and I don't have any problems with losing aggro from raid bosses.

Blocking skills. Simply calculation: I've invested max DNA points to Shield mastery intensification, at lvl 10 of the DNA and with lvl 1 of this skill I get 318+35 = 353 to shield blocking. I max "Shield fortress" to boost shield block chance. "Aegis of protection" I left at lvl 1 only to unlock "Shield Fortress" skill. Another calculations: "Aegis of Protection" at lvl 7 (max of available, lvl 78) give only +100 to block and +300 with maxxed DNA. In my case I have +410 Shield blocking with "Aegis of Protection" lvl 1, "Shield mastery" lvl 1 and "Shield Mastery Intensification" DNA lvl 10. 410 is the way better than 335 anyways :)


So, in other words, shield mastery left at lvl 1 with max DNA is more than shield mastery at lvl 10 with no DNA? That would free up 9 skill points to use for offensive skills and healing, I guess, making soloing much easier. Still, that would make some other skills weaker, due to lack of DNA used in them, right? And, not taking Aegis of Protection to lvl 7 would decrease the block rate. Let me write this out.

Shield Mastery lvl 10, Shield Mastery DNA lvl 10, Aegis of Protection lvl 7:
+509 block rate
17 skill points used

Shield Mastery lvl 1, Shield Mastery DNA lvl 10, Aegis of Protection lvl 1:
+410 block rate
2 skill points used

Now that I see the numbers, 15 precious skill points for only +99 block rate does seem like a waste of points that could be better spent in other areas, and even if the level cap was raised to max, that's only another +25 from Aegis for another 3 skill points. It seems the points would be better spent in offense or other support skills.

So my two build plans are:

skill-calculator: Protector
Maximum tankage, minimal solo capability, low damage output
+598 block rate

skill-calculator: Protector
Excellent tankage, decent solo capability, decent damage output
+499 block rate

Build 2 seems like the better deal, honestly. The only difference in defense is 99 block rate in exchange for better offense (and in turn better aggro control).
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