168 replies to this topic

[blackCROSSCY]

The delay doesnt look that bad when you get RTB once in a while, but it gets bloody obvious when RTB activates multiple times within a few attacks.

 

EDIT

If we count that on average your infrequent delays result in a lost of 1 whole attack that could have happened everytime, you actually get a -25% DPS when RTB procs (0.75+ (-1)). 

 

Adjusting the formula to DPS, in such scenario you will get 

0.2*(-.25)+0.4*2+0.4 =

 

1.15x your DPS

 

Overall still a DPS boost, but way lower than the original 1.35X

Of course, the actual delay isn't always going to happen, or if it happens, resulting in only 1 lost attack, but on the whole i think the -1 average seems reasonable. We might say the real DPS gain is somewhere from 1.1-1.35X depends on how frequent the delay occurs due to RTB procing too many times in a row.

 

Is it worth it to you? I might get one if it's not too expensive just for the nice looks of the multiple procs, but honestly the DPS gain is dubious.

 

 

 

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 14 July 2018 - 02:18 AM.

[Ashuckel]

that delay is with a lot of agi and minimal dex, the smaller is the difference, the worse it will get.

[blackCROSSCY]

 

also not worknig with crush strike RK, RTB take priority, then DA crush strike proc

 

This is actually good by the way. It means that no matter what, your CS will not be lowered in dmg due to RTB. 

 

Good surprise for the garment

[3505170703074552307]

that delay is with a lot of agi and minimal dex, the smaller is the difference, the worse it will get.

 

and.. low dex = low hit, RTB miss

[blackCROSSCY]

@mlmf, can you do a YT video with your ranger using the garment on eggs? I’m assuming your ranger has 120dex right. That will be a much better control test than with GX 120agi 1 dex.

[Hogbae]

dude, im pointing out the delay when rtb proc.

 

Oh rip me, my bad. Lolol Yeah, agi and dex to lower the delay, thats it.

 

Still, I feel that whenever RTB procs, dps is lowered. :/

[yamasakai90]

so RTB doesn't proc with Crush Strike, RK Rejoice! 

[mlmf]

 

 

Edited by mlmf, 14 July 2018 - 09:17 PM.

[blackCROSSCY]

ya, it does seem that there’s only a noticeable delay if you unluckily get several RTB procs in a few attacks, otherwise not too bad

[fuyukikun]

Too bad or not too bad cant be decided just by seeing that vid. One must perform a test to see the DPS with ‘default’ garment, and DPS with surskit.
From the test we can actually see whether wearing surskit is actually increasing, same, or decreasing DPS.

Sense an egg. Note its HP.
Damage it, say 20 seconds.
Sense an egg again. Note its HP.
Substract the HP from first sense and second sense, that is your damage over 20 seconds.
Divide that damage by 20. You get your DPS.

Edited by fuyukikun, 14 July 2018 - 10:38 PM.

[mlmf]

My test results with a RK just using a bellum Claymore:

 

Timed with duration of Recognize spell (60s) and my WL used sense before and after

 

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat (177 aspd)  = 3,540.22 dps

 

Without +9 Battle Surcoat (176 aspd) = 2,005.25 dps

 

 

2nd test:

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat and 2HQ  = 7,420.90 dps

 

Without +9 Battle Surcoat and 2HQ = 4,534.63 dps

 

 

 

 

Seems like RTB is just an extra that doesnt effect dps much, but the aspd boost somewhat helps. Based on my tests, the suit boosts your dps by 50%, seems pretty good

 

Edited by mlmf, 15 July 2018 - 02:56 AM.

[Ashuckel]

that was not what he meant :v

[Hogbae]

that was not what he meant :v

HAHAHA well... too bad I don’t have any auto atk gears to make the test and post, nor am getting a +9 Battle Surcoat.

Regards to proc several times, thats luckily unlucky. Was pretty much MB event chances (20%). Lol

Edited by Hogbae, 15 July 2018 - 04:42 AM.

[fuyukikun]

My test results with a RK just using a bellum Claymore:

 

Timed with duration of Recognize spell (60s) and my WL used sense before and after

 

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat (177 aspd)  = 3,540.22 dps

 

Without +9 Battle Surcoat (176 aspd) = 2,005.25 dps

 

 

2nd test:

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat and 2HQ  = 7,420.90 dps

 

Without +9 Battle Surcoat and 2HQ = 4,534.63 dps

 

 

 

 

Seems like RTB is just an extra that doesnt effect dps much, but the aspd boost somewhat helps. Based on my tests, the suit boosts your dps by 50%, seems pretty good

1. Use your full setup. Geared from head to toe. Dont compare surcoat with empty garment, compare surcoat with optimum garment u usually use. Use either your full ASPD crit setup or usual max ASPD setup. The message is, u need to compare the DPS loss when you switch your usual garment (example: fatal ASPD FAW) with Fatal surcoat, or something like that.

2. Use optimum ASPD, 190 and above. Since many people said RTB lose effectiveness on higher ASPD, perhaps you can try several ASPD samples such as 186, 188, 190, 191, 192, 193. From here, we can evaluate the best ASPD that surcoat might be the best to use.

3. Reason why people are pursuing over double attack gears is to amplify their autocrits. if their autocrits already surpassing 300% attack, no need to use RTB since each attack is already stronger than RTB. RTB will slow the DPS due to: autocrits already surpassing RTB, RTB can miss, RTB delay which is loss in amount of hit per second.

Edited by fuyukikun, 15 July 2018 - 05:04 AM.

[mlmf]

Test with Ranger no Warg with ff. gears:

 

Sniper Goggles

Jinn Marin Balloon

+11 WW Suit of Agility Switching ea1 crit+5

WW Manteau or +9 Battle Surcoat

WW Boots mdef+6 hp+200

WW Brooch

PDM

+11 Double Bloody BxB int+2 ea1

 

Test 1:

193 aspd (Agi Up and VIP buffer)

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat - 18,634.83 dps

With WW Manteau       - 17,621.70 dps

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat - 19,627.50 dps

With WW Manteau       - 17,004.80 dps

 

 

Test  2:

192-193 aspd (VIP Buffer)

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat (192 aspd) - 17,469.97 dps

With WW Manteau (193 aspd)       - 16,788.67 dps

Edited by mlmf, 15 July 2018 - 05:44 AM.

[CadburyChocolate]

RTB results to DPS loss, by a lot. On that 1 sec delay, you could have done 7 normal attacks on it already.

 

Just wait for DA costume guys, just a week away

[NihonHikikomoriK]

RTB results to DPS loss, by a lot. On that 1 sec delay, you could have done 7 normal attacks on it already.

 

Just wait for DA costume guys, just a week away

 

We getting DA costume enchant??? We also getting -0.5 FCT enchant?

[fuyukikun]

RTB results to DPS loss, by a lot. On that 1 sec delay, you could have done 7 normal attacks on it already.

 

Just wait for DA costume guys, just a week away

im sure the delay is not 1 sec. it is far shorter. 

[NihonHikikomoriK]

 

gx test

 

 

 

 

im sure the delay is not 1 sec. it is far shorter. 

 

looking at these 2 vids ranger with high dex and agi feels like .5 sec a brief delay and gx with high agi delay is more noticeable probably 1 sec or more

Edited by NihonHikikomoriK, 15 July 2018 - 06:35 AM.

[fuyukikun]

The GX one is not even 1 sec

[Nirvanna21]

The GX one is not even 1 sec

 

The natural delay is 1.3 seconds, this then reduces by [(AGI * 0.004) - (DEX * 0.002)]

[mildcontempt]

The natural delay is 1.3 seconds, this then reduces by [(AGI * 0.004) - (DEX * 0.002)]

 
So apparently this is incorrect and both AGI and also DEX decrease the delay. 
 
https://forums.warpp...e/#entry1843167
 
quoted below for convenience:
 
 

the idea is totally correct, but the formula is wrong (yeah sometimes the wiki isn't too accurate); the formula above means having twice more DEX than AGI completely nullifies the delay reduction (therefore pointless)
 
the correct formula is:  1.3 - (AGI x 0.004) - (DEX x 0.002) seconds; the brackets are not needed (or just change the sign inside the bracket);
with this, having both high AGI and high DEX is advantageous
 
i think players just started referring to increasing ASPD with regards to reducing combo delay since it's a direct effect of increasing AGI (and of DEX too, very slightly);
but with ASPD potions/gears and AR scrolls into play, relating ASPD to combo delay becomes misleading;
of course, we still aim for high ASPD anyways (less animation delay) for fast snapping =)

 
You can also test it out with hawkeye proc to see how regardless of the ratio of agi-to-dex, more dex = shorter delay.

[Nirvanna21]

 
So apparently this is incorrect and both AGI and also DEX decrease the delay. 
 
https://forums.warpp...e/#entry1843167
 
quoted below for convenience:
 
 

 
You can also test it out with hawkeye proc to see how regardless of the ratio of agi-to-dex, more dex = shorter delay.

 

Neato :U, makes it suck slightly less, now a turd is a turd with a piece of corn in it :U

[mildcontempt]

u nasty

[Hogbae]

Test with Ranger no Warg with ff. gears:

 

Sniper Goggles

Jinn Marin Balloon

+11 WW Suit of Agility Switching ea1 crit+5

WW Manteau or +9 Battle Surcoat

WW Boots mdef+6 hp+200

WW Brooch

PDM

+11 Double Bloody BxB int+2 ea1

 

Test 1:

193 aspd (Agi Up and VIP buffer)

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat - 18,634.83 dps

With WW Manteau       - 17,621.70 dps

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat - 19,627.50 dps

With WW Manteau       - 17,004.80 dps

 

 

Test  2:

192-193 aspd (VIP Buffer)

 

With +9 Battle Surcoat (192 aspd) - 17,469.97 dps

With WW Manteau (193 aspd)       - 16,788.67 dps

 

You aren't using the best gears to auto attack with Ranger though.

 

Any set up could win of these gears. I think people are more interested to know if its worth it to break the set ups including FAW Fatal 10 Petal, Temporal Luk Boots and others stuffs to use a Battle Surcoat.