28 replies to this topic

[4103161207215504667]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm fairly new to Geneticist, and I recently picked up a +15 Crimson Mace Neutral because I've been looking around and I've read that it's a good end-game item. However, I also plugged all the info into Azzy's Geneticist Calculator and it looks like a triple carded +9 RTE EA5 is stronger than a double carded +15 Crimson Mace by about 10% more damage. 

 

Is that basically the truth of it? +9-+15 RTE EA5 > +15 Crimson Mace?

 

Perhaps someone can confirm or deny this? I suspect that they both have different uses. I imagine the RTE is better for leveling, while the Crimson Mace makes a better MVP weapon -- however, I saw a video on YouTube recently where someone compared a +11 Triple Liberation RTE EA6  vs. +15 Double Liberation Crimson Mace and the RTE was doing significantly better so I'm guessing RTE > Crimson Mace every time?

 

I'll give a run-down of my gear in-case it can shed some light

 

+8 Cylinder

Sera. Coronet

Toy Syringe

+9 EDA

+9 RTE Triple Kingbird / +15 Double Kingbird Crimson

+9 Mad Bunny Special

+9 FAW Shooter EA10

+9 Temp Dex RM EA4

Temp Ring

PDM

 

 

[blackCROSSCY]

Crimson weapons were great in the past when we did not have so many +atk gears like today.

 

With Spell shield adding 150 and seraphim adding 250, crimson weap's +300 becomes less significant than before, compared to the high base weapon attack you have from RTE as a lv4 weapon, additional AK slot and the 10% extra range dmg for gene.

 

So yes, in today's context RTE > crimson neutral everytime. Crimson Holy is still great for the convenient holy element tho, especially when the double element (bug) count still works.

[4103161207215504667]

Amazing, thanks for the confirmation and the explanation!

[YongkySH]

Crimson weapons were great in the past when we did not have so many +atk gears like today.

 

With Spell shield adding 150 and seraphim adding 250, crimson weap's +300 becomes less significant than before, compared to the high base weapon attack you have from RTE as a lv4 weapon, additional AK slot and the 10% extra range dmg for gene.

 

So yes, in today's context RTE > crimson neutral everytime. Crimson Holy is still great for the convenient holy element tho, especially when the double element (bug) count still works.

 

isn't CC using holy ball already bugged (4x dmg) when to shadow/undead 4, no matter what the weapon element is?
 

[VanishingPoint]

Crimson is still better since One-Hand sword has a -25% to large. Most MVPs are large.

[LordYggdrasill]

Crimson weapons were great in the past when we did not have so many +atk gears like today.

 

With Spell shield adding 150 and seraphim adding 250, crimson weap's +300 becomes less significant than before, compared to the high base weapon attack you have from RTE as a lv4 weapon, additional AK slot and the 10% extra range dmg for gene.

 

So yes, in today's context RTE > crimson neutral everytime. Crimson Holy is still great for the convenient holy element tho, especially when the double element (bug) count still works.

 

The Seraphim's 250 atk bonus makes low atk weapons like RTE a lot more attractive, tests have shown that it does outperform crimson weapons on various occasions.

 

I aint sure about the shield spell part. Its extremely difficult and tedious to make it work with Gene since they usually have high INT/DEX(especially if you go with Seraphim Set), I've given up on that already. Also on kRO the shield spell is cancelled if you switch shield while casting, once this update arrives on iRO all the cheats with Shield Spell will become unavailable.
 

[Ashuckel]

weapon element doesnt matter for CC when using the elemental balls, only when neutral.

RTE was always nice, the biggest downside on RTE vs crimson is that swords deal 75% damage on large monsters, wich is 80% of RO bosses, and many mobs too. RTE will pull ahead on medium monsters for sure, since it is used to it's full potential there, but it isnt as impressive when against big ones.

[Hogbae]

weapon element doesnt matter for CC when using the elemental balls, only when neutral.

 

^ This.

 

They end up doing pretty much the same damage in the end. So don't worry so much about this...

Edited by Hogbae, 19 July 2018 - 10:34 AM.

[VanishingPoint]

^ This.

 

They end up doing pretty much the same damage in the end. So don't worry so much about this...

 

It DOES matter big time when fighting against a water element monster. You'll do 60% dmg to Water using an RTE. Ghost element does only 25% dmg to Water while Holy and Dark does 75%. The only element that will do 100% dmg to Water is Neutral and Earth. According there Divine-pride, there are approximately 249 water based monsters in RO.

 

Additionally, there are approximately 495 large monsters and 53 of them are Water based.

Edited by VanishingPoint, 19 July 2018 - 10:58 AM.

[Ashuckel]

 

 

It DOES matter big time when fighting against a water element monster. You'll do 60% dmg to Water using an RTE. Ghost element does only 25% dmg to Water while Holy and Dark does 75%. The only element that will do 100% dmg to Water is Neutral and Earth. According there Divine-pride, there are approximately 249 water based monsters in RO.

 

Additionally, there are approximately 495 large monsters and 53 of them are Water based.

Cool

Did you know about Elemental Converters pal?
lol

[VanishingPoint]

Cool

Did you know about Elemental Converters pal?
lol

I know about it buddy, but do you know how annoying it is to switch converters for every monsters? for you it's probably easy. I already have enough gears to switch so no converter switching for me buddy.

Edited by VanishingPoint, 19 July 2018 - 07:15 PM.

[vividort]

so, the question was, which one is better for general purpose? Because if you want to deal optimal damage against something you'll definitely give up optimal damage against something else.

Edit: Stop spreading this element bug nonsense, ¬¬' it was already explained how that works, its just a misconception about how the formula is applied.

If you have little ATK go for crimson high ATK RTE, case closed.

Edited by vividort, 19 July 2018 - 02:49 PM.

[Ashuckel]

it is bugged and double dipping tho :V

[Ryviux]

I don't know about general purpose but if for leveling in Nightmare clock tower, I use the a RTE since (surprise) the big bell are actually medium size

[vividort]

the bug has any relation to the weapon element Ash?

[Ashuckel]

no, it just applies the element twice throughout the formula when using holy/ghost/shadow balls

[Zayaan]

the bug has any relation to the weapon element Ash?

 

Only if you're a Mechanic using Arm Cannon.

[4103161207215504667]

weapon element doesnt matter for CC when using the elemental balls, only when neutral.

RTE was always nice, the biggest downside on RTE vs crimson is that swords deal 75% damage on large monsters, wich is 80% of RO bosses, and many mobs too. RTE will pull ahead on medium monsters for sure, since it is used to it's full potential there, but it isnt as impressive when against big ones.

 

I've heard that the extra card slot in an RTE makes up for that 25% Difference if you're using Triple Liberation vs Double Liberation. Is that correct? In which case, the RTE pulls ahead because of the Expert Archer mod?

 

But from what I'm seeing here, it's generally accepted that:

 

High ATK (i.e. using Sera Coronet) = RTE

Low ATK = Crimson

 

Thanks for the input everyone!

[Ashuckel]

not really because of diminishing returns on atk% stacking, but it isnt a whole world of difference anyways. Get what's more versatile for you.

[Hogbae]

not really because of diminishing returns on atk% stacking, but it isnt a whole world of difference anyways. Get what's more versatile for you.

 

Difference in damage won't be that much anyway. You'll still be way too op thanks to OCP.

[yamasakai90]

I still keep my crimson mace. I basically use Crimson mace when my Genes have less than 80 str, and swap to RTE when I reach 80 str.

[Hogbae]

I still keep my crimson mace. I basically use Crimson mace when my Genes have less than 80 str, and swap to RTE when I reach 80 str.

 

Pro tip.

[4103161207215504667]

So, is the Holy element bug on the Holy Crimson Mace going to be fixed at some point?

[4103161207215504667]

Also, I don't know if there's any info I'm missing about this video -- but it seems pretty black and white that an RTE is significantly better than a +15 Crimson Mace [Holy] even against a Large monster and the Holy element bug.

 

If you can't see the video, a Geneticist is testing a +11 RTE Triple Liberation EA6 and a +15 Crimson Mace [Holy] against Bijou while both using Holy balls. The video shows the RTE out-performing the the +15 Crimson Mace by hitting above 999999 while the Crimson Mace is hitting ~950000 damage. 

[Ashuckel]

There is nothing wrong with Crimson Mace. Cart Cannon is the one that's double dipping(when using elemental balls)