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Pumping the Breaks on Zeny Generation


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#76 MrCrimson

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:06 AM

Honestly if the hackers are doing dupes and its easy for them to do, they can still easily dupe items worth 10k or so, in multiple stashes. It still results in an approx 370M zenny per stack of 30K items sold to NPC using overcharge. Now imagine they had a few number of items that they can dupe each time, there will still be a huge amount of zeny flowing in. 

 

Basically you just made their job more tedious but the root problem isn't solved. If they can dupe- and it depends on how easily they do it, this won't solve the zenny flowing in, but only slows it down depending on how much effort the hacker's willing to put in. At the same time, legit players get affected quite badly by this move though.

 

If it is a short term measure while your team attempts to get the root of the problem and break the duping process, i completely support your move. However, please don't take too long, because its also a fight against player satisfaction while this is going on. In the end only the hacker wins if zenny becomes expensive, because he is more incentivized to dupe the cheap 10k items as i mentioned above, given that zenny becomes more valuable to players who lost a means to acquire them legitly while hackers basically still have their unlimited source (albeit at a lower tap rate).

I agree with BlackCROSS. It really is not the smartest move you guys have done. if youre really going with this, don't take too long to find the root of the problem. Camp, you and the team have left a lot of bad taste in our mouths and i know you're trying but this will actually make every new player unmotivated to play. I still don't think this is a good idea.


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#77 Valtios

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:14 AM

As players may have noticed were attempting to fight the large amount of inflation that the game economy has experienced. What we found was that a small amount of very ill mannered users were generating for more high value items than a normal user can otherwise obtain.

So in order to pump the breaks on this issue. This is what were looking at doing.

8/9 -The following items can no longer be directly sold to npcs

  • Ora Ora
    Four-Leaf Clover
    2-Carat Diamond
    3-Carat Diamond
    Wedding Bouquet
    Crystal Mirror
    Witherless Rose
    Frozen Rose
    Baphomet Doll
    Osiris Doll
    Gold
    Anvil
    Oridecon Anvil
    Golden Anvil
    Emperium Anvil
    Darkred Scale Piece
    GM Max Bond
    Colorful Key
    Gold Coin Basket
    Colorful Brooch
    Old Crown
    Dark Lord's Soul Piece
    Tooth of Jitterbug
    Shard of Gigantes
    Blade of Darkness
    Lucifer's Lament
    Seed of Life
    Morning Dew of Yggdrasil
    Tuxedo
    Gold Bullion
    Silver Bullion
    Platinum Bullion
    Embryo Creation Guide
    Elemental Potion Creation Guide
    Treasure Box
    Valhalla Flower
    Pirate Treasure
8/16 - The following changes are put into place for the above 37 items.
1. Allow every character to sell 10 a day if they are past a level 70 (Taking into account OC skill levels when determining zeny to give out)
2. Stuff that drops from castles treasures gets a larger amount per day for guild leaders only.
3. All items on the list can be traded for investment tickets
4. All items on the list can be traded for potion making like treasure boxes.

What are your thoughts on our plans to keep these items useful while fighting the inflation problem?
With this implementation, you can put a NPC that trades you the real zeny amount of this items but, the amount that you can trade per item is limited and you can do it once a day per character and item, like the VIP token of Siegfried NPC.

This will not solve the problem of duping but, dupers will take an eternity to achieve their goal.

Edited by Valtios, 09 August 2018 - 06:41 AM.

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#78 alizanovic

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:17 AM

As many players state. This will affect the major part of the population. I dont know if you notice but a hint for you: Fix the bot problem and you will have taking a root off the problem. Maybe is no the final solution, but it will solve something.

 

I once do a very extensed thread about it and now you are figure out how to tackle down the inflation:

https://forums.warpp...nd-resolutions/

 

Now my suggestion is:

- Do the bot crusader like Oda used to do. Go bot hunting every day, many times a day. Implement a anti-bot (and anti-cheat) system. It is needed.

- Track the IPs of botters and so something against related accounts/IPs. There is no way to complain if "I play in a cyber" b*llsht, if they see a co-worker/sister or brother botting, and they do not report, they can face the consecuences.

- Do not disable to sell the items related to WoE investment System. Talking for the 4Leaf Clover. Also, do the same with the Bullions, these are good income for new players doing instances and invest.

 

There is no easy way to tackle inflation down. Its a problem wich has been increase for a long time, and now you want a fast solution.

 

The ultimate solution is: Reduce all the zeny in all accounts in one decimal, 500m converted to 50m, 1 billion converted to 100m, and so on. Everyone will get 1/10 of their current zeny.

 

yes yes agree to this yes


Edited by VModCinnamon, 09 August 2018 - 06:43 AM.
Mod Edit: Removed red/Bold. Red bold is for staff/mod warnings and notices only.

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#79 Campitor

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:21 AM

Working on something that will be less drastic. Going to experiment with it on sakray before the maintenance. If it goes well I will have an update to the thread that I think will make you all happier.

Tldr camp worked on something all night will try a dash of mad science.
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#80 FUEGOECK

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:32 AM

this sounds more fit to the regular gamer then boters   :no1:


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#81 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:33 AM

Working on something that will be less drastic. Going to experiment with it on sakray before the maintenance. If it goes well I will have an update to the thread that I think will make you all happier.

Tldr camp worked on something all night will try a dash of mad science.


Whatever you do will make dupdra more happier and will hurt real players more
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#82 Hogbae

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:38 AM

Still demotivating to farm dailies for zeny now. Lol Might as well get these players and ban/block them.  :p_err:


Edited by Hogbae, 09 August 2018 - 06:39 AM.

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#83 MoyuZ777

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:41 AM

How can the dupes be prevented? Maybe create a way to track large amount of items being generated in your database daily? Then researching the character and ban them. Do it as a daily task for your team.

This proposal will just hurt legit players more than duper in my opinion. Dupers are in to make real money, so they don't care, they will just jump on the next exploit.
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#84 mashaa

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:50 AM

Veteran players quit
and wp killing slowly new players and real players who play hard work hard to survive in this game
.
Now thinking how many players will stay in 10 years later if the server still alive too
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#85 fuyukikun

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 06:58 AM

Working on something that will be less drastic. Going to experiment with it on sakray before the maintenance. If it goes well I will have an update to the thread that I think will make you all happier.

Tldr camp worked on something all night will try a dash of mad science.

Camp.

 

I suggest you to revamp the investment item pool. some of them should be deleted, especially four leaf clover since it slows down the profit making process.

 

My suggestion:

Poison Herb Makulata - take off (can buy them at NPC)
Poison Herb Nerium - take off (can buy them at NPC)
Poison Herb Rantana - take off (can buy them at NPC)
Poison Herb Scopolia - take off (can buy them at NPC)
Poison Herb Seratum -  take off (can buy them at NPC)
Izidor - stay
Bitter Herb - take off (no one wants to tame excessive amount of poporing)
Singing Plant -  take off (no one wants to tame excessive amount of rocker or to craft headgear using excessive amount of these)
Illusion Flower - stay
Cold Ice - stay
Ice Crystal - stay
Blood of Wolf - stay
Beef Head - stay
Savage Meat - stay
Petite's Tail - stay
Ice Piece - stay
Drosera Tentacle - stay
Mandragora Flowerpot - stay
Prickly Fruit - stay
Fabric - stay
Immortal Heart - stay
Stem - stay
Anodyne - stay
Aloevera - stay
Aloe Leaflet - stay
Amulet - stay
Four Leaf Clover -  take off (provide slow cashback rate of the investment due to penalty of selling 10 per day)
Condensed Potion Box (200) - stay
WoE White Potion Box (30) - stay
WoE Blue Potion Box (10) - stay
WoE Violet Potion Box (50) - stay
White Potion Box (100) - stay
WoE White Potion -  take off (boxed one is better, no one buys the singular ones)
WoE Blue Potion -  take off (boxed one is better, no one buys the singular ones)
Old Blue Box - stay
Old Purple Box - stay
Gift Box - stay
Royal Jelly Box (100) - stay
Blue Herb Box (100) - stay
Deadly Poison Box (30) - stay
Yggdrasil Leaf - stay
Yggdrasil Seed - stay
Yggdrasilberry - stay
Dried Yggdrasilberry - stay
Unripe Yggdrasilberry - stay
Blue Potion - stay
Speed Potion - stay
Coldproof Potion - stay
Earthproof Potion - stay
Fireproof Potion - stay
Thunderproof Potion - stay
Cursed Water - stay
Elemental Converter (Fire) - stay
Elemental Converter (Water) - stay
Elemental Converter (Wind) - stay
Elemental Converter (Earth) - stay
Box of Drowsiness - stay
Box of Resentment - stay
Box of Sunlight - stay

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#86 vividort

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:21 AM

I actually would like to see some of the useless items (an absurd amount of the in-game drops, especially MVP ones wtf gravity) be put to use for actually useful stuffs, i did find awesome that you could get some value out of some amount of mvp drops for investment and hoped something similar would be implemented for other stuff, wish you luck in this difficult task of dealing with inflation. 

#thereishope ;)


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#87 Campitor

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:26 AM

Whatever you do will make dupdra more happier and will hurt real players more


So the details of the test I am preparing is as follows.
 

  • All the items are blocked from sale to normal npc shops
  • The items will be able to be sold to a unique npc in the eden group.
  • That npc will have better tracking to monitor for the abusive sales were trying to prevent.

I should have this test completed by 10:30am on Sakray to see if we can use it for this maintenance. If it works players will be able to continue as normal while the GMs get the ability to catch the abuse far more often.

 


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#88 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:28 AM

Do it for all Consumable and ETC items, coz they will just move to those other items


Edited by CadburyChocolate, 09 August 2018 - 07:29 AM.

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#89 Campitor

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:30 AM

Do it for all ETC items, coz they will just move to other items

We will see what they move on to the list were targeting is all etc items over a certain value.


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#90 Ashuckel

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:31 AM

So the details of the test I am preparing is as follows.
 

  • All the items are blocked from sale to normal npc shops
  • The items will be able to be sold to a unique npc in the eden group.
  • That npc will have better tracking to monitor for the abusive sales were trying to prevent.

I should have this test completed by 10:30am on Sakray to see if we can use it for this maintenance. If it works players will be able to continue as normal while the GMs get the ability to catch the abuse far more often.


You know that any restriction like this is useless in the long run since ppl doing this can simply move to the next most profitable not restricted item right?

Even if they keep on doing it for these items, as long as you don't sell a ridiculous amount in a short period of time you'll never catch anyone.

There is also the risk of false positives occurring because ppl store there stuff on their storage and then mass sell them at once. Will you track if their entire account and alts have done the instance/investment that many times to verify the item legitimacy? lol


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#91 Campitor

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:35 AM

You know that any restriction like this is useless in the long run since ppl doing this can simply move to the next most profitable not restricted item right?

Even if they keep on doing it for these items, as long as you don't sell a ridiculous amount in a short period of time you'll never catch anyone.

There is also the risk of false positives occurring because ppl store there stuff on their storage and then mass sell them at once. Will you track if their entire account and alts have done the instance/investment that many times to verify the item legitimacy? lol

We will monitor for new items appearing. The problem is the GMs can't monitor every single transaction on every single on the server. Its just not feasible to review every log. By providing a filter they will be able to better catch bad activities.


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#92 Ashuckel

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:38 AM

It's a huge waste of resources and manpower, but ok, do whatever.


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#93 CadburyChocolate

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:39 AM

btw, still have no idea how these players are duping? this doesnt look like a solution to me tbh


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#94 lorenz1375

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:53 AM

Just put a mvp card in raffler on a extremely low rate with not so good consolation :heh: it's like mvp'ing while sitting
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#95 Ashuckel

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 07:57 AM

@Camp, check your PM
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#96 YongkySH

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:01 AM


 

if you want some zenny sink, copy what philippine ragnarok online [the OG version].  put a loli npc, and let her do the job like "ok, some good items but 99.9% of the time you will get potatoes, and also, it is around 100k per try" . i got 3 kafras of it during that time.

 

what kind of good items? can you share here?
 


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#97 AceBanner

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:28 AM

So the details of the test I am preparing is as follows.
 

  • All the items are blocked from sale to normal npc shops
  • The items will be able to be sold to a unique npc in the eden group.
  • That npc will have better tracking to monitor for the abusive sales were trying to prevent.

I should have this test completed by 10:30am on Sakray to see if we can use it for this maintenance. If it works players will be able to continue as normal while the GMs get the ability to catch the abuse far more often.

 

I have the tendency to stock pilled my items in storage & sells them in bulk. I'm afraid this could be misleading. It does not solve the main issue Camp. Your solution are adding another problem on top of another. End up you're wasting more time, effort & money. :yawn: 

You need to come up with anti-duping solution/system to this issue. Same goes for bots. As for inflation, it has been Cash Shop items caused. :ho: 

Solving duping issue = Solving zeny overflowing issue (inflation)
Solving zeny overflowing issue = Better control on inflation's high & low
Better control on inflation = Game friendly for new/existing players
Game friendly server = Healthier/competitive gaming environment
Healthier/competitive gaming environment = Better sales (profit) from Cash Shop

When more sales (profit) comes to WP, indirectly the cycle will come back to other issues/problems. This is where different solution strategy required again. Regardless, it needs to be workable & makes sense to the game & the community. :p_sleep: 

Thus, the 1st issue that needs to be solved is - DUPING  :ic:


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#98 lorenz1375

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:30 AM

what kind of good items? can you share here?


Costume:musical decoration

WWSet Parts (wwset is only won in cash raffle in pro)

Costume: twilight

Some sealed mvp cards

Some +7/8/9/11 weapon/armor deeds (straight up refine)

Some blessed oridecon and blessed elunium (like bsb but up to +13)

Some bundles of food buff (called bundle pack (insert whatever # here)

Some megaphones cause what is pRO without megaphones :heh:
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#99 Hogbae

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:31 AM

So the details of the test I am preparing is as follows.
 

  • All the items are blocked from sale to normal npc shops
  • The items will be able to be sold to a unique npc in the eden group.
  • That npc will have better tracking to monitor for the abusive sales were trying to prevent.

I should have this test completed by 10:30am on Sakray to see if we can use it for this maintenance. If it works players will be able to continue as normal while the GMs get the ability to catch the abuse far more often.

 

No restriction of quantity sold? Amount of zeny we get, will it be the same with Overcharge skill?


Edited by Hogbae, 09 August 2018 - 08:33 AM.

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#100 YongkySH

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 08:33 AM

Costume:musical decoration

WWSet Parts (wwset is only won in cash raffle in pro)

Costume: twilight

Some sealed mvp cards

Some +7/8/9/11 weapon/armor deeds (straight up refine)

Some blessed oridecon and blessed elunium (like bsb but up to +13)

Some bundles of food buff (called bundle pack (insert whatever # here)

Some megaphones cause what is pRO without megaphones :heh:

 

seems too OP for iRO, might need some tweak here :heh:


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