186 replies to this topic

[lorenz1375]

Oh [Snip] double post how to remove this


Yes need tweaks, but point is, pRO a largely known p2w server actually put really good items in exchange for zeny just for the economy and they actually priced stuff per server economy

1 server was like 5m per try while the other was 50m per try

Hd brads and carniums from the raffler was a good start, then again when it was changed and replaced by not so delicious items well... meh...

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And it wasnt as kind as any raffler in the history of iRO since it flat lut gives you hundreds of Anael Potatoes (basically potato loot but changed to thw name of a gm, still an effin potato)

Edited by VModCinnamon, 09 August 2018 - 08:44 AM.
Mod Edit: Don't try to bypass the filter, please.

[Campitor]

OP is updated with the latest plan.

[Damara]

This hurts. I'm a slow gearer, and a slow leveler - I save money until I can buy what I need, and I don't have a lot of time to play so my playtime is usually solo. I invest one day a week and then vend out the results over the rest of the week. This is not fast. I sometimes recruit my kid to click for me.

 

The common loots listed are a big chunk of my (sometimes slim) profit margin. Four-leaf clovers can equal twenty percent of my total investment, and many of the loots come from gift boxes, which already do not usually pay for themselves. 

 

What you'd be doing is ensuring that the average player can compete only indirectly with the income generated by MVPers. Thanks for that. I might never be able to afford the kind of gear that would make endgame activities feasible, so I'm more likely to stop paying my account and take a break.

[KriticalAssassin]

OP is updated with the latest plan.

OP was updated with "TBA" basically, lol, you trickster you.

So just an NPC to sell to with some sorta special method?

Ohh, nvm, I see what's going on, hopefully it works =\

[Valtios]

OP is updated with the latest plan.

You should consider(and maybe could be possible) to restrict the item amount sold  in a daily basis per character. This will regulate the mass sales of this items.

Edited by Valtios, 09 August 2018 - 09:26 AM.

[blackCROSSCY]

The new plan looks better.

A. May i suggest to also just replace the four leaf clover in investments into something else people might want like ygg seed as well? It would also help remove false positives from heavy investments players who may get thousands of them over a few sitting and also stop duper’s pretending to be normal players by selling in at most thousands of it each time.

B. Also if possible, perhaps add an alert that informs you of any high value transaction across all NPCs. Do not inform any players of the exact value for the alert, AND change the amount for alert regularly. Depending on how well you set the filter amount, your work may not be too tedious but still allow you to double check on the legitimacy of accounts that hit that certain transaction amount.

IE. This week any single transaction NPC sales that hits 100M triggers your alert. If hacker didn’t know about it, high chances you will catch him. If the alert amount keeps changing on a regular basis (weekly or even daily), the only way to stop getting caught is to do it in low volumes each time, which can be very tedious and unrewarding.

As i said earlier in maintenance thread, a 10K price item sold in 30K quantity is still almost 370M after overcharge. If he had just 10 of such items to sell it would easily be 3.7B in a couple of minutes, not to mention 50 or even 100. While you may not be able to stop duping you can at least dissuade them by making it difficult to make their activities hidden and hence focus their efforts on other games with more lax security instead.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 09 August 2018 - 09:47 AM.

[ShenYuel]

You should consider(and maybe could be possible) to restrict the item amount sold  in a daily basis per character. This will regulate the mass sales of this items.

You should keep in mind, there's few lazy people they don't sell the loots everyday on the NPC and they prefer to stack them to do only 1 transaction with the NPC.

From my part, I always sell the loots from OGH after done the instance to earn the zeny from the treasure, that's always between 1m~1.5m per round in my case, which I always share the half with my friend or anyone who join me to the instance. 

Edited by ShenYuel, 09 August 2018 - 09:53 AM.

[VimaDias]

Great moves, keep it up, Camp!

 

And remember to ban the bots, heheh

[Damara]

Replacing the trash loot with consumables would be fine; just the fact the item is used up helps fight inflation. Price of woe pots, for example, has held fairly steady for the few years I've been investing. I would still invest with no profit because now I have a rampant slim addiction, but it's just nice as a casual to have a sideline and not be pressured to endgame for some income. 

[Valtios]

You should keep in mind, there's few lazy people they don't sell the loots everyday on the NPC and they prefer to stack them to do only 1 transaction with the NPC.

From my part, I always sell the loots from OGH after done the instance to earn the zeny from the treasure, that's always between 1m~1.5m per round in my case, which I always share the half with my friend or anyone who join me to the instance.

If my propose is applied, it should be announced before the change so the people that have stocks have a chance to sell them at once. The restriction should have a considerate threshold, to not asfixiate the players experience and to handicap the abusive dupers.

[Savio619]

Hope the moves doesn't backfire on people who like to hoard those things just to watch the NPC pay insane amount of Z.

[thesifer]

I like the effort to curb the crazy inflation.

 

My suggestion is creating a new NPC to exchange these items for consumables that players use for instances/leveling (preferably bot-farmed consumables). This method is killing bots and dupers at the same time!

[VimaDias]

I like the effort to curb the crazy inflation.

 

My suggestion is creating a new NPC to exchange these items for consumables that players use for instances/leveling (preferably bot-farmed consumables). This method is killing bots and dupers at the same time!

 

Seems pretty legit to me

 

I support the idea of the consumables

[VileCharmander]

Hope the moves doesn't backfire on people who like to hoard those things just to watch the NPC pay insane amount of Z.

 

But that's not the point of limiting the sales to one NPC. Think of the NPC as almost like a debugging tool - before, when players could sell the items to any NPC, how would you easily go through the logs to find out information on the transactions? If you can't easily pull the logs, you can't easily go through them to figure out who your abusers are. Now, with only one NPC being able to handle the transactions, the logs are easy to collect with a simple query which allows for easy review so that the abusers can be identified.

 

For the time being, it doesn't matter how much or how little zeny the NPC pays out. Without a good way to review the logs, it is much harder to collect data to show if there is a real problem, and who may be causing the problem if there is.

[Damara]

But eliminating the zeny and replacing it with nothing just ends with investors throwing stuff on the ground (cough poison herbs cough). Which I guess is a zeny sink of a sort, but it also penalizes people who are following the rules and doesn't touch dupers at all.

 

Edit: good point on the traceability of a single NPC. Investing 400mil a week (this is 40,000 tickets) nets me 800 four-leaf clovers on average. It takes me almost two days to redeem all the tickets, and then the rest of the week to vend the rest out. There's no reason any single account should be selling more than 1000 clovers in a week. The things do not drop that often from monsters. 

Edited by Damara, 09 August 2018 - 10:39 AM.

[VimaDias]

But that's not the point of limiting the sales to one NPC. Think of the NPC as almost like a debugging tool - before, when players could sell the items to any NPC, how would you easily go through the logs to find out information on the transactions? If you can't easily pull the logs, you can't easily go through them to figure out who your abusers are. Now, with only one NPC being able to handle the transactions, the logs are easy to collect with a simple query which allows for easy review so that the abusers can be identified.

 

For the time being, it doesn't matter how much or how little zeny the NPC pays out. Without a good way to review the logs, it is much harder to collect data to show if there is a real problem, and who may be causing the problem if there is.

 

Hmm, understood. So Camp's measure is not the solution, but the means to the solution (which is to ban the bots and delete their zeny). This is probably beter than the consumables idea

Edited by VimaDias, 09 August 2018 - 10:42 AM.

[kitanoir]

The following items will no longer be sell-able to most npcs for zeny. This is to turn off several zeny flows that have been generating too much zeny at this time and contributing to recent inflation. Update: There will be a single npc located in the eden group that will accept these item. We will post a guide on how to sell to this npc during maintenance.

 

npc sales are not responsible for inflation,  the ocp are. if u really wanna stop inflation  THEN STOP ALL THE CRAZY NEW GEAR THAT PEOPLE ARE OVERPRICING LIKE CRAZY! 5 billion for a piece of armor is the cause of inflation, not npc sales.

[VileCharmander]

Hmm, understood. So Camp's measure is not the solution, but the means to the solution (which is to ban the bots and delete their zeny). This is probably beter than the consumables idea

 

Being a means to a solution... that's hard to say. Maybe yes, maybe no. As others have already mentioned, if the accounts that are abusing the system just move on to collecting and selling other items that are not on the list, the logs collected aren't going to show that there are any problems. It's hard to say what the end result would be.

 

There's a lot of ideas that people are throwing out, but you have to take a look at things from a database perspective. Oh, you want to just go in and remove a zero from the zeny total of all characters? That would be easy, or hard, depending on where the column in the database that stores the zeny value is located. It could be as easy as

FOR EACH Character

FLOOR((SELECT <zeny> FROM <inventory>) / 10)

 

*I don't know the real database diagram, so this is just pulled out of my butt in some very basic SQL

 

But if you have to join the Account table with the Character table and a different Inventory table, things start to get more complicated. Complicated = more time to figure out and test, and if you have a limited amount of staff who are competent enough to write complex database queries, it may just not be feasible.

 

Inflation of a virtual economy is a complex problem, and there is no magic trick to fix the issue. Especially not if you want to make everyone happy. Someone is always going to be upset with whatever solution is proposed...

Edited by VileCharmander, 09 August 2018 - 11:01 AM.

[3505170703074552307]

The following items will no longer be sell-able to most npcs for zeny. This is to turn off several zeny flows that have been generating too much zeny at this time and contributing to recent inflation. Update: There will be a single npc located in the eden group that will accept these item. We will post a guide on how to sell to this npc during maintenance.

 

npc sales are not responsible for inflation,  the ocp are. if u really wanna stop inflation  THEN STOP ALL THE CRAZY NEW GEAR THAT PEOPLE ARE OVERPRICING LIKE CRAZY! 5 billion for a piece of armor is the cause of inflation, not npc sales.

 

All of those seller is cancer anyways even the buyers are willing to pay for such amount why?, theres too much zeny in circulation & those that being generated.

[Ashuckel]

The following items will no longer be sell-able to most npcs for zeny. This is to turn off several zeny flows that have been generating too much zeny at this time and contributing to recent inflation. Update: There will be a single npc located in the eden group that will accept these item. We will post a guide on how to sell to this npc during maintenance.

npc sales are not responsible for inflation, the ocp are. if u really wanna stop inflation THEN STOP ALL THE CRAZY NEW GEAR THAT PEOPLE ARE OVERPRICING LIKE CRAZY! 5 billion for a piece of armor is the cause of inflation, not npc sales.

thats incorrect and thats not how inflation works

Edited by Ashuckel, 09 August 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[VileCharmander]

The following items will no longer be sell-able to most npcs for zeny. This is to turn off several zeny flows that have been generating too much zeny at this time and contributing to recent inflation. Update: There will be a single npc located in the eden group that will accept these item. We will post a guide on how to sell to this npc during maintenance.

 

npc sales are not responsible for inflation,  the ocp are. if u really wanna stop inflation  THEN STOP ALL THE CRAZY NEW GEAR THAT PEOPLE ARE OVERPRICING LIKE CRAZY! 5 billion for a piece of armor is the cause of inflation, not npc sales.

 

But can you say that the item is overpriced if someone is willing to pay that amount for said item? In an unregulated market, the value of an item is only determined by what the customers are willing to pay. If you can price an item for five billion and you can sell it, then that is exactly what the item is worth in that transaction. If no one is willing to pay five billion, than the price is too high, and (assuming the seller actually wants to get rid of the item) the price will go down.

 

Gradual inflation is usually a normal thing to see in an economy if more people have money to spend. If the rate of inflation is high, the usual cause is an excessive amount of currency in the market. If there is excessive currency, then getting people to lower the value of items they sell is not going to correct the issue, which is why you would look at ways to remove currency from the market.

 

So, the big question is... did the game experience gradual inflation, or a high rate of inflation? The answer to that question would help you figure out the best course to take to correct the issue.

[Damara]

It's part of how inflation works. Part of it is too much money in circulation, which is what happens when you make zeny out of thin air by selling loots to npc; I think a big part of it also is that when demand outstrips supply, prices increase, and the OCP gear (also generated from thin air) is a huge part of that. When your mats become more expensive, you raise your prices to cover your operating costs. 

 

Edit: Recent inflation has been sudden, over about the last year. Just be glad there's no stock market to crash.

Edited by Damara, 09 August 2018 - 11:34 AM.

[NormalPeople]

New update : remove overcharge skill

[MoyuZ777]

Leave another npc exploitable, to easily catch the exploiters.

[renouille]

What kind of monster would NPC treasure boxes?