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Round table discussion regarding WoE & general PvP combat


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#126 VModCinnamon

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:16 PM

I am not sure if I can make this any clearer:
 

Hello,
 
Please let's stick to the formatting as posted here to avoid further topic derailment.


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#127 miliardo

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:31 PM

I love this if we actually see something implemented to try and better woe.

1) Make it easier to acquire important items needed for woe. It’s difficult to keep a guild running, and makes harder when more people join. This makes it to where no one wants to run a guild.

2) Disable stasis

3) Focus on fixing broken/abuses skills. I would say let’s start and thread for each class in woe, and do same like we are here. This would allow more detailed arguments, so we don’t break anything. This is really important for me due to seeing how introduction of new gears/levels created even more imbalancing. Let’s get back to team work and not as much soloing.

4) Do something about cheating. I don’t know how fix this, but I know other may. I can only hope we find some solution in this area of the game.

5) Update woe god items. This is pretty straight forward there being outshined. For the time effort of obtaining just lowers value even more. Doing something here would also incentivize reasons to woe.

6) Update Ranked slims in woe. With the effort put in to make them there just not worth what you get. Making woe maps increase effectiveness of these items would also allow no abuse. This I feel woul help balance of woe supply demands.

This is going to be the biggest improvement to game. Doing so many necessary changes make me nervious with how long changes come. If we mess up this could kill game for us, if we don’t we know it will. I would love to have GM to be able to make more changes if needed. We will run into things may not work. Having an open line of communication or new threads might work.
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#128 Nirvanna21

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:45 PM

Must not be very fun because these people never play PVP which is the same mode, but it has a 0% chance of rewards...

 

You just don't seem to understand that while both of these things involve killing other players, they are entirely different things.


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#129 DarkOrinus

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 07:52 PM

yes, because making it easy to supply guilds and properly incentiving the input for a proper updated output is filth, thanks for reminding me how much of an ass people here can be! haha
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#130 ChainsOfHeaven

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:06 PM

Loyal members will supply themselves if they are having fun. I didn't see where you even proposed anything concrete and I didn't call anyone out, but you chose to victimize yourself.
If the current meta was dissolved less supplies would be used. Damage has been snowballing for a few years and hardly anything to protect it has been introduced. iRO uses more supplies than any other server out there, we over indulge on things that are supposed to be scarce. Making supplies not gated behind a monotonous botter's paradise would be ideal because people who do not like WoE could still farm supplies to sell and people who want to hunt them for personal use could also. 


Edited by ChainsOfHeaven, 14 October 2018 - 08:09 PM.

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#131 DrArthur

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:34 PM

Loyal members will supply themselves if they are having fun. I didn't see where you even proposed anything concrete and I didn't call anyone out, but you chose to victimize yourself.
If the current meta was dissolved less supplies would be used. Damage has been snowballing for a few years and hardly anything to protect it has been introduced. iRO uses more supplies than any other server out there, we over indulge on things that are supposed to be scarce. Making supplies not gated behind a monotonous botter's paradise would be ideal because people who do not like WoE could still farm supplies to sell and people who want to hunt them for personal use could also. 

 

There's literally no reward to WoE OTHER than for the guildmaster, hence why THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO BRIBE MEMBERS AND SUPPLY THEM.

 

People who play WoE are literally doing it to help their guildmaster get rewards. They get -_-. THAT is why it is the LEAST a guildmaster can do to supply them. Especially since they have to be active for two hours. TWO HOURS. Doing the SAME thing... OVER AND OVER...

 

iRO doesn't use more supplies than any other server, stop smoking Green Herb before posting.


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#132 ChainsOfHeaven

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:42 PM

iRO does use more supplies than other servers, especially the ones that require SSNs to play or ones that crack down on bots.

Almost every post you have here is negative and there is an overwhelming amount of people disagreeing with you because they actually know what they are talking about.


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#133 Nirvanna21

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:53 PM

There's literally no reward to WoE OTHER than for the guildmaster, hence why THEY ALWAYS HAVE TO BRIBE MEMBERS AND SUPPLY THEM.

 

People who play WoE are literally doing it to help their guildmaster get rewards. They get -_-. THAT is why it is the LEAST a guildmaster can do to supply them. Especially since they have to be active for two hours. TWO HOURS. Doing the SAME thing... OVER AND OVER...

 

iRO doesn't use more supplies than any other server, stop smoking Green Herb before posting.

 

I help out so members have access to the guild dungeon. It has nothing to do with my guild master getting rich from all them god items she is making.


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#134 DarkOrinus

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 08:56 PM

explain this then, im a loyal member but i ask for supplies. im not a loyal member but i dont ask for supplies

i have days i can supply myself and i have days i cant bc my speeds seller aint doing investments yet due to busy work

the thing is, people woe for fun but some rather would have it the experience is still the same and with competency to fight the opposing, thus we have said supplies that we need in consistency for every woe. the challenge there is finding a source of these supplies that wont make you bankrupt

id like to rip out your audacity to say 99% of people who've posted in effort for you to call filth. what have you contributed to say something coming out of that vulgar hole you call a mouth to us? poor shame
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#135 markoh1988

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:09 PM

Just my 2 cents. 

 

If anyone thinks that woe can earn guildmaster big fortune is pretty dumb. How much can a leader really earn from guild castle loots, tbh it really like 1% -2% of the running cost. I personally lead a TE guild. Do you think a TE god weapon worth any compare to woe 1/2 god.  No. So where my fund for TE come from? it come from farming of instances etc and also last but not least, the help from my guild member.  Beside that, you still have to cater time for buying material, brewing slims and consumables etc etc. Zeny , Time, Effort ... 

 

with the current inflation of everything, cost increase by easily 300% for me at least. not sure about other leaders. Perhaps, GM can look into para-marketer or some npc that sell WOE version of straws and etc at a cheaper price which only have effect in woe. 

And also probably the cheating in woe~ Although GM visited a few time after some reports was made, however the same character using the same cheat always there after that. GM have to really work out on that part cos it pretty annoying ~ 

 


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#136 lorenz1375

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:18 PM

If you are doing the same thing in woe over and over again ylu are doing it wrong

Unless you are a designated warper then there is nothing anyone can do lol

How many times do people have to say that people who woe do it for fun? I can assure you that if it isnt, people will just forget it hence the numbrrs of rage quitters who loses all the time denying them effectively of their own view of "fun" and there wont be any who knows where the hell they came from random people with no guild affiliation just smacking people at the entrance because for them THAT is fun.


I do it for fun as well hence why i prefer ones that have the underwhelming numbers rather than the other. Always losing? Yeah but the action and thrill is my view of fun no butt hurts.

But you simply can not deny the ease of burden a much more rewarding woe does to a gm and their players.

Additional supplies will afterall make players more flexible at what they do. Why? Do you even woe to ask me why?

Edited by lorenz1375, 14 October 2018 - 09:18 PM.

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#137 DrArthur

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:23 PM

If you are doing the same thing in woe over and over again ylu are doing it wrong

Unless you are a designated warper then there is nothing anyone can do lol

How many times do people have to say that people who woe do it for fun? I can assure you that if it isnt, people will just forget it hence the numbrrs of rage quitters who loses all the time denying them effectively of their own view of "fun" and there wont be any who knows where the hell they came from random people with no guild affiliation just smacking people at the entrance because for them THAT is fun.


I do it for fun as well hence why i prefer ones that have the underwhelming numbers rather than the other. Always losing? Yeah but the action and thrill is my view of fun no butt hurts.

But you simply can not deny the ease of burden a much more rewarding woe does to a gm and their players.

Additional supplies will afterall make players more flexible at what they do. Why? Do you even woe to ask me why?

 

The thing is, no one is doing it for fun, because no one is going in PVP to "recreate the fun". They only do it in WoE. You know, to get... wait for it... rewards. For the guildmaster.

 

There's no "action" or "thrill". You either OHKO them, or they pot off all of the damage. Bam, exciting. /s

 

And no, WoE really is repetitive. There is zero variation in anything you're going to do unless you intentionally play inefficiently and horribly for no reason.


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#138 Scuba

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 09:51 PM

I love this if we actually see something implemented to try and better woe.

1) Make it easier to acquire important items needed for woe. It’s difficult to keep a guild running, and makes harder when more people join. This makes it to where no one wants to run a guild.

2) Disable stasis

3) Focus on fixing broken/abuses skills. I would say let’s start and thread for each class in woe, and do same like we are here. This would allow more detailed arguments, so we don’t break anything. This is really important for me due to seeing how introduction of new gears/levels created even more imbalancing. Let’s get back to team work and not as much soloing.

4) Do something about cheating. I don’t know how fix this, but I know other may. I can only hope we find some solution in this area of the game.

5) Update woe god items. This is pretty straight forward there being outshined. For the time effort of obtaining just lowers value even more. Doing something here would also incentivize reasons to woe.

6) Update Ranked slims in woe. With the effort put in to make them there just not worth what you get. Making woe maps increase effectiveness of these items would also allow no abuse. This I feel woul help balance of woe supply demands.

This is going to be the biggest improvement to game. Doing so many necessary changes make me nervious with how long changes come. If we mess up this could kill game for us, if we don’t we know it will. I would love to have GM to be able to make more changes if needed. We will run into things may not work. Having an open line of communication or new threads might work.

 

1 & 6) I definitely agree. More leaders would be willing to put in the effort to organize people if it were easier to supply them. As mentioned before if the leaders were in it for the money, they would be better off just merching OCP items. Classic had a good system for Guild Supply Boxes. But its still the guild leader's burden to farm them it seems. I rarely saw guild members help with supplying.

 

2 & 3) I agree Stasis is very broken, there is no counterplay for it. Rather than call for disabling (though I support it in the case of stasis) I would prefer that counterplay be added. For example, we have unfrozen shadow armor in the weapon, shield, and accessory slots. But it would be nice to have an armor / footgear combo that granted 100% immunity to stasis, or howl, or CC (for example).

 

4) I don't think they will be able to fix cheating unfortunately. Enforcement is the best most cost effective option. And even that, I don't see happening.

 

5) I am not against increasing the rewards of WoE. Obviously there is validity to the point that the guild members are not as "incentivized" to participate. Though I come from the mindset that the event itself is the reward, others are a bit more for lack of a better word; greedy. To discount the effort that guild leaders have to put in, and still point at them like they are con artists feels so ungrateful and disingenuous. The problem with improving god items is that power creep will eventually make them all obsolete, as we have already seen. In the past I would never imagine accessories would outclass meg, but they have now. I see no reason for that trend to stop.

I think granting players access to something special for being in a guild owning a castle would be nice. Like guild dungeons but better.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Also VMods, please take a hard line on off-topic, and non constructive posts (including any I may have.) This topic is important and I get the feeling the GMs will probably get lost in all the trolling.


Edited by Scuba, 14 October 2018 - 09:54 PM.

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#139 VModCinnamon

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 10:41 PM

Going to sit and clean this up.

Once that's done I will open the thread, ETA 1~ 2 hour. Thank you for understanding.

 

Edit:

Thread is now open.

I removed as much as possible of off-topic postings. Couple of users have been suspended without a notice (2 days) due to frequent overall abusive behavior/derailment.

Problematic posts should be reported, so do not take matters in your hands. Issues with moderation actions should be also reported to the staff.

 

Past this point, any derail, attempted aggression and spam will result in account suspension. Please let's work together to keep this thread on topic and easy for the staff to read. On top of all, if you disagree with someone's point of view be polite about it :) if they are strictly firm on what they believe in then so be it.


Edited by VModCinnamon, 14 October 2018 - 11:11 PM.

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#140 s3nd0

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 11:26 PM

@gm team

before asking for players' suggestions, why dont you tell us what gm team can do/cannot do in technical aspect first?


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#141 ChainsOfHeaven

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 11:32 PM

@gm team

before asking for players' suggestions, why dont you tell us what gm team can do/cannot do in technical aspect first?

 

They can't actually do a whole lot as far as changing things drastically mechanics wise. It is pretty apparent that this thread is more of a carrot on a stick approach where the community influences what is dangled in front of them to incentivize doing WoE. The only thing that most people here agree upon is changing Dorams and making un-reducible damage reducible and I am not sure that iRO can make such changes.


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#142 lorenz1375

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Posted 14 October 2018 - 11:46 PM

There's no "action" or "thrill". You either OHKO them, or they pot off all of the damage. Bam, exciting. /s


But this applies to pvm as well albeit they dont pot (unless they heal stupendously like one of the hardest thing in pvm-pfft bio5 bosses which max heals, wouldnt tht mean pvm is more boring? Why are you still playing then? Let me guess... rewards boom then there goes another one of your reasoning: the everyone who woe only do it for rewards bs. That also apply to pvm.

Also

Me being an example who woe for fun already debunks your statement that no one does it for fun.

We know what is lacking in woe in comparison to pvm and we can fix it (supply, power balance etc etc)

We know what is lacking in pvm and we can only qq bout it (AI, new instance, repetitive monster sprites used for more than 10 years already etc etc)

Hence this thread, if you just want to hijack this thread and trolling around then there is nothing i can do but if you purely hate pvp and woe then DONT EVEN BOTHER LOOKING AT THIS THREAD FFS
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#143 DarkOrinus

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:03 AM

yeah actually, have been pondering on the thought of working around what the limits are in terms of customizations. like is making a count quest for GD monsters that will reward supplies for turn ins viable? or etc

or adding food mats to cash shop viable?

or making certain customizations to npcs like the wps token supply exchanger okay?

or making an instance that will reward guild members supplies okay?

or whichever is good idk
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#144 markoh1988

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:12 AM

add food material to cash shop is good but poor ppl like me :( 


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#145 DarkOrinus

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:22 AM

the purpose of it in cash shop is to make things less complicated for people who would avail for the benefit

like i find foods in woe a luxury, unless of course you are super competitive xD, necessities like cobwebs you can always hunt for, again for cash shop just the benefit of ease

then they could finally get woe boxes out of cash shop and make them more available

edit: im not talking about witched starsands or speeds haha

Edited by DarkOrinus, 15 October 2018 - 12:25 AM.

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#146 hexiezi

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 12:46 AM

Well, if we change the WOE 1 time to Friday night, there should be more players. At current WOE time on Wednesday, players in west coast America are still working, and players in Asia have not got up yet, players in Australia are working in the morning.

 

If the WOE time is changed to Friday night 7:00pm to 9:00pm PST, we can have players in America all available to join, and in Asia and Australia, it's Saturday and players are free of work, also available to join. Upon this, we have moved all the WOE time to weekend (Friday WOE1, Saturnday WOE 2, Sunday TE for PST), it should be interesting and relaxing.

 

Thanks you for collecting feedback and hearing from players.

We should change the WoE time since WP has banned EU players, so we don't need to care about if WoE time fits EU time zone anymore. Change WoE1 time to Friday PST night.

Most players that live in GMT+08:00 won't be able to WOE1 during winter time that starts from November. It is because WOE time is one hour later and people live in GMT+08:00 needs to go to work at that time on Thursday.Please consider making WOE1 on weekends. Friday PST night sounds good for me.


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#147 Nirvanna21

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:07 AM

the purpose of it in cash shop is to make things less complicated for people who would avail for the benefit

like i find foods in woe a luxury, unless of course you are super competitive xD, necessities like cobwebs you can always hunt for, again for cash shop just the benefit of ease

then they could finally get woe boxes out of cash shop and make them more available

edit: im not talking about witched starsands or speeds haha

 

No foods in cash shop thank you.


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#148 ChakriGuard

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:25 AM

the purpose of it in cash shop is to make things less complicated for people who would avail for the benefit

like i find foods in woe a luxury, unless of course you are super competitive xD, necessities like cobwebs you can always hunt for, again for cash shop just the benefit of ease

then they could finally get woe boxes out of cash shop and make them more available

edit: im not talking about witched starsands or speeds haha

 

Since people complain a lot about supplies, sure, foods are considered supplies. Foods in cash shop seems reasonable. No one even buys +10 foods in cash shop anymore because we already got Oda's.


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#149 Diskence

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:31 AM

You have the previous WoE supply pots in cash shop already. Don't see anything bad about putting food/WoE pot boxes/whatever else in cash shop.

Maybe just put in another way of getting supplies in game as well to offset that so people still have options to farm them somehow i.e. put them in Eden Badge.


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#150 Diskence

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Posted 15 October 2018 - 02:34 AM

 

2 & 3) I agree Stasis is very broken, there is no counterplay for it. Rather than call for disabling (though I support it in the case of stasis) I would prefer that counterplay be added. For example, we have unfrozen shadow armor in the weapon, shield, and accessory slots. But it would be nice to have an armor / footgear combo that granted 100% immunity to stasis, or howl, or CC (for example).

 

 

People were trying to ask for Stasis to be fixed so that you cannot use it pass walls or obstacles i.e. Nid5 infront of Emp room people can stasis from the flag in to stasis people defending. Obviously never happened. 


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