375 replies to this topic

[Scuba]

Last couple things I want to say before I wait for GM comments (hopefully soon) and full disclosure, this is my biased opinion.

 

Some people have suggested disabling skills that they find annoying in WoE. It is important to be cautious about this kind of suggestion because they can strip away what is good about a class. Yes, masquerade is annoying, but that is what a Shadow Chaser does. That's the entire point of them. I will always lean harder into counterplay and balance than I will call for disabling. Though I understand disabling is much easier for GMs to do.

 

Biased part

Spoiler

That said, I want to defend Genetic a bit (again full disclosure I play one). Calling for Ash, howling, and Item Sling to be disabled or nerfed isn't a fair idea. Genetic is a support / crowd controller in WoE, and nerfing these abilities takes away what a Genetic does. It would be like taking pneuma and party buffs away from an AB. A shadow chaser can take Crazy vines and then what do you need a Genetic for?

 

There is already counterplay to all of the skills that some people have listed in their complaints. You can clear Howling with Lauda, you can clear ash with CV or any other ground clearing skill. And while Banana bombs can be annoying, they don't always work, they are single target, and they don't actually kill you. Genetic already had thorn wall disabled because of the knockback effect it was given in WoE (no counterplay). I wish they never changed the skill in the balance patch, but it is what it is.

 

tl;dr don't nerf skills that actually have counterplay and add counterplay to skills that have no counterplay.

[EmoMidget]

WOE Related: (All of the following are only for WoE maps)

 

1)About Stasis,Howl,Volcanic Ash and Suicidal Destruction(partially):

 

I disagree with disabling of these skills. Honestly these are the few skills which can actually be considered strategic in WoE to an extent. Although I always end up at the annoying and receiving end I like how it's unexpected and the timing matters a lot. Although some new gears like Eyes of Illusion broke the scene instantly recently. Instead of disabling it regulating it should be a better option.

 

Making them unable to pass through obstacles (dead cells?)

Stats reduce the time of debuff (No debuff should not be completely unremovable or reducable, that's just retarded )

and a guild cooldown seems nice but I doubt it's feasability

 

2) Cooldown for potting and skills such as masquerades,etc(need input for more)

 

Honestly at this point it is better to add cooldowns to the potting and certain skills which are commonly abused in WoE and make the cheats/edits ineffective than go through all the drama of getting GMs to ban people and people claiming they were wrongfully banned,etc. This also reduces the number of people wanting to cheat in the future, keeps the population stable but removes the unfair advantage cheaters have. Ofcourse if GMs are willing to put the effort and carefully and effeciently weed out the cheaters that will always be the ideal option as there are multitude of other cheats that need weeding. (P.S: This doesn't make the skills ineffective in anyway. As it's still possible to make the best out of masquerades using higher success rate with dex)

 

3) Make dorams players

 

Based on my understanding players and demihumans are 2 different races(correct me if im wrong). Making dorams players is what should have actually been done long ago as they are players afterall. They will still have their own benefits of small size and demihuman effective gear failing on them. Thara frog card should also be looked into if this change is implemented? (according to divine pride it says reduces from demihuman and players)

 

4) Revamp the rewards:

 

Many suggestions were posted earlier about how to deal with the complete trash rewards and thats one point that will have a unilateral approval. God items are becoming useless by the update. As of now we have a "better" OCP alternative for every gear maybe except for Megs and Mjolnir (only for Exceed breakers). And some gods are so redundant that they cant even be sold below 1b(asprika). And not to mention the drop rates and randomization of pieces makes it 1000x harder and frustrating.

 

5) Make obtaining supplies easier:

 

Supplies are the most important for a WoE guild. Right now it costs a fortune to supply a guild. Also why no one wants to take the responisibility of being a guild leader. Make supplies available in game easier. Cash shop supplies maybe optional for those who are willing to spend but having them easier to obtain is definetly a must as no one will want to spend irl money for supplying others 2-3 times a week.

 

 

PvP Related:(PvP maps only)

 

As not as many people have come forward for inputs regarding pvp here are my inputs

 

1) Put a PvP warper in eden,near main city kafras:

 

Getting to pvp is THE MOST BIGGEST hassle. You go all the way in only to find it's empty and have to repeat it often. Would be nice if the warper in eden/city will show the number of people in the various pvp rooms directly. Also there should be one warp to the PvP waiting room seperately for those who plan to get some links,buffs,team prep,etc.

 

2) Put a WoE Map Kafra NPC and rent a mount NPC in the pvp waiting room:

 

A WoE Map Kafra NPC with its usual functions of Fill HP/SP,Repair options and the rent a mount for the mount and mado gear in the PvP waiting room will help a lot and reduce peoples frsutration by a tonne.

 

3)PvP spectator mode as someone suggested:

 

Someone earlier suggested a spectator mode earlier as a poring. This seems like a wonderful idea. It would make the PvP more fun and new players can watch the fun as spectators. This might get them interested in PvP in the future. All though make the transformation as something else maybe a Marin or Lunatic (as poring scrolls are a thing)  and they should not be included in the counter of the people present in pvp

 

4) A +10 all stat (basically Odas) buffer in the pvp waiting room, and +30 all stat (Basically Oda+ +20 stat foods) if VIP. Loses upon chaning map server (I believe the Waiting rooms and pvp rooms come under a seperate Map group?)

 

This way people dont have to spend millions just for PvP. And the +30 for VIP won't be unfair as non vip can still use the+2 stat foods from vendors. The map restriction will prevent people from using the buffs for other purposes.

 

5)Regarding Slims/potions:

 

I believe this will be fine as it is if WoE changes are made so that WoE potions are much more easier to access. There has to be atleast a little difference to those who are willing to spend and those who aren't bothering to put an extra little zeny or effort.

 

The GM team must come out and let us know which points among the various suggestions seem feasible and useful for the community to elaborate and give a detailed solution incase of WoE. PvP is a much smaller environment so it's possible for us to give a direct solution but that does not apply for WoE.

Edited by EmoMidget, 15 October 2018 - 09:58 PM.

[Diskence]

And I never once assumed you meant purely via cash shop.

 

Like Ash, I have strong feelings about how this games cash shop already holds so much weight on the game. I don't like seeing more power given to it.

 

I don't see any reason to not have a second option. I understand what you mean and I agree with you. With that said there are currently no way to get OCP/Enriched Ore/HD Ore, which are all the things that make cash shop so important and I assume what everyone buys the most. With foods if you do have an option to make it super easy to get them in game then that's good, then what is wrong with putting it in the cash shop? If you are so confidant that this new way will absolutely destroy the ridiculous price that food/supplies are then there should be no reason for you guys to be even arguing. Because if foods are so freaking cheap with zeny, I'd just buy it from venders as well even if they were on the cash shop.

 

It is very hard to get GMs to put anything in, I think we all know that. But it is pretty easy to get them to take something out. This is one of those moments where, supposedly, they are asking us for inputs for things that they will consider putting in. I really don't see why we can't have a second option to obtain things.

 

People dont have to buy from brewers if they can farm +20 food for themselves. Make every monster in game has a chance to drop +20 foods. Thing is, I dont like how it has to be Gen who can brew. I dislike how Cash shop doesnt have +20 Foods. Lastly I hate that some brews bot brew while some people dont because they're lazy.

 

I agree. 

 

 

 

 

If anything he reduced the price for the foods, sure it might be a lot more than if you brewed yourself. But he was by far the cheapest seller for foods then. 

 

Are we living in different worlds? Even Nirvanna agreed with me he was overpricing his foods to no tomorrow. 

Edited by Diskence, 15 October 2018 - 10:12 PM.

[Diskence]

 

Some people have suggested disabling skills that they find annoying in WoE. 

 

No skills should be disabled, not even stasis. 

[tihom]

That said, I want to defend Genetic a bit (again full disclosure I play one). Calling for Ash, howling, and Item Sling to be disabled or nerfed isn't a fair idea. Genetic is a support / crowd controller in WoE, and nerfing these abilities takes away what a Genetic does. .

 

I am not suggesting disabling them or taking away their effects. I only think that the duration of effect should not be a ridiculous 1 whole minute. 

 

Let me take Volcanic Ash for example, its a 7x7 aoe which can be cast within 2 sec in 3 different places. If afflicted your fail skills at a 50% chance for a whole min (not sure the exact duration). It is basically half a masquerade ignorance, which is an aoe and can be cast from half the map away. 

 

It also cannot be dispelled once you are afflicted by it. It is really very powerful skill. But it should not last as long as it does. It doesn't make Gene any less useful or take away their ability. 

 

 

Or howl, for example, an almost screen wide chance to screw your int, sp and add cast time. Which can be spammed with only a cooldown of 15 seconds while affecting you for over 1 minute. And don't talk about howl resistance we all know that is practically a myth. 

 

 

 

Think about it think about it this way, how much fun would you have if masquerade Ignorance lasted 40 seconds instead of the current 20 seconds. Sure is a bigger disable than say ash. But 1 its not an aoe, 2 it can be dispelled, 3 you can only cast it at close range and you might get my point.

 

 

 

I am not trying to say that masquerade in its current state is not overpowered (an I agree with the "if you fail it should go on cooldown", But why can't a similar gene skill be reduced to similar duration? 

Edited by tihom, 15 October 2018 - 11:13 PM.

[ChakriGuard]

They cant masq you if you kill them first ie. one shot them. Putting more reductions will put us back to one-man-tank-whole-guild time. Remember the time when SC just could tank almost everything and just relaxed masq'ing people while -_- talking? Hahaha Nope nope ... not going back to that stupid potting WoE again. Sorry, a little personal here     

[DarkOrinus]

howl you can have laudas, so it's not as bad. depending on the frequency, but that requires effort and actual survivability coming from a genetic. and actually, i will talk about howl resist lol, i dont expect RG's for example to be howled as much due to people probably rolling high luk and vit for it. so yes, do not touch howls.

 

for stasis and masqs ill leave that to you guys

[Scuba]

I am not suggesting disabling them or taking away their effects. I only think that the duration of effect should not be a ridiculous 1 whole minute. 
 
Let me take Volcanic Ash for example, its a 7x7 aoe which can be cast within 2 sec in 3 different places. If afflicted your fail skills at a 50% chance for a whole min (not sure the exact duration). It is basically half a masquerade ignorance, which is an aoe and can be cast from half the map away. 
 
It also cannot be dispelled once you are afflicted by it. It is really very powerful skill. But it should not last as long as it does. It doesn't make Gene any less useful or take away their ability. 
  
Or howl, for example, an almost screen wide chance to screw your int, sp and add cast time. Which can be spammed with only a cooldown of 15 seconds while affecting you for over 1 minute .  

Duration: [5 × (Skill Level + 1)] seconds

And don't talk about howl resistance we all know that is practically a myth. 
 

You are intentionally omitting the counter play options though. Howling can be recovered from with a very very low cooldown Lauda Ramus. And there are resistances against it already, howl resistance is not a myth you are just trying to alter reality to suit your position. You can't just tell someone not to talk about something that completely debunks your premise. "Spamming" on a "15 second cooldown" is an oxymoron. Its also not screenwide. Its roughly half the screen centered on the genetic. Which means to get more than the frontline you need to be basically on top of the enemy.
 
https://irowiki.org/wiki/Volcanic_Ash

 

https://irowiki.org/...dragora_Howling
 
Several other inaccuracies in your account of Ash, unfortunately. The only case I would think it is unfair is casting it on a portal in a WoE 1 emp defense which is just asking for a portal-stasis. Otherwise just don't walk on it. If you can see the ground targetted ability and still walk on it anyway how do you not deserve the debuff? Calling to nerf Ash would be like calling to disable quagmire in pre-renewal. Spammable, Screws your cast time, kills your aspd, and you can't walk out of it easily. If you only list the negative parts without context you can make anything sound bad.

 

But to be fair I think it shouldn't affect people that are no longer standing in it, if it even works that way.

Edited by Scuba, 16 October 2018 - 12:22 AM.

[LinskyLT]

They cant masq you if you kill them first ie. one shot them. Putting more reductions will put us back to one-man-tank-whole-guild time. Remember the time when SC just could tank almost everything and just relaxed masq'ing people while talking? Hahaha Nope nope ... not going back to that stupid potting WoE again. Sorry, a little personal here

That’s point is what I totally agree with, reduction gears are seriously fine, but to restrict class please!!

[LinskyLT]

No skills should be disabled, not even stasis.

These skills are designed for pvp purpose, someone is even saying to disable them, why not just disable these class?

[Cordite]

Greetings,

Thank you to everyone who has put in their two cents and provided us with not only suggestions, but points of views to consider. There was actually quite a lot of helpful activity provided by our participants in this thread. We will be continuing to monitor activity here, but for now we will begin digesting the view points and suggestions provided so that we can formulate an approach towards improving the overall PvP experience.

Thanks again for participating, to those who provided constructive viewpoints and suggestions.

[lorenz1375]

Greetings,

Thank you to everyone who has put in their two cents and provided us with not only suggestions, but points of views to consider. There was actually quite a lot of helpful activity provided by our participants in this thread. We will be continuing to monitor activity here, but for now we will begin digesting the view points and suggestions provided so that we can formulate an approach towards improving the overall PvP experience.

Thanks again for participating, to those who provided constructive viewpoints and suggestions.

Couldve been better if you guys joinedin the discussion and not just act as overseers or something wth

[miliardo]

Couldve been better if you guys joinedin the discussion and not just act as overseers or something wth

If they joined in they would be asked to answer a lot of questions they need to discuss first. They are acting as overseers for that I hope. There have been many discussions, and so many people (including myself) not very happy how gms handle these discussions threads. I would love a more transparency in what sounds reasonable, so we could focus more on those ideas.

Looking over this thread I may have been wrong myself on the white slim pots being more effective. Decreasing dmg with doing that might bring back the immortal tanks. Focusing on skills being balanced will fix pots being less effective.

I would love to see unfrozen shadow set disabled in woe. This would also help bring some balance back to those strong suras and wl. This allowed the power creep to really get out of control. At least before you sacrifice reducing damage/ freeze to increase damage and require strategies. This allowed I feel more strong classes showing up in woe and others not too.

Thanks scuba for being so on top of trying fix woe. Your doing good job explaining your position.

[LinskyLT]

Greetings,

Thank you to everyone who has put in their two cents and provided us with not only suggestions, but points of views to consider. There was actually quite a lot of helpful activity provided by our participants in this thread. We will be continuing to monitor activity here, but for now we will begin digesting the view points and suggestions provided so that we can formulate an approach towards improving the overall PvP experience.

Thanks again for participating, to those who provided constructive viewpoints and suggestions.

First and foremost, can gm team just do some easy work such as to disable some unbalance stuffs to keep woe at the same page with other servers, like to simply disable unfrozen sets and fiberlock being used in WOE which afaik other servers even do not allow these unbalance element.

 

And for skills like Back Slide, no idea why it was banned at the beginning but still exists now.

[Braska]

If they were to use your suggestion of blocking fiber lock, they'd also have to consider extreme vacuum, manhole, thorn trap, song of despair, etc. These are even more powerful than fiber lock. Don't need to start blocking skills due to personal annoyances.

Edited by Braska, 17 October 2018 - 07:30 AM.

[ChakriGuard]

No skills should be disabled. Just need some fixes. Make a poll and ask experienced WoE vets which skills should be fixed and I’m sure Stasis, S. Destruction, and Howl will be on top of the list. Also the main problem is there are some noobs and butt-wholes who use alts to abuse skills. We can’t stop alt client practice anyway.

Items that enable class skills should also be disabled however such Evil spirit gloves, RG shield, Eye of Illusion, etc. You get my idea.

Edited by ChakriGuard, 17 October 2018 - 10:26 AM.

[Diskence]

Fiberlock is fine but not everyone should be able to spam them like their mother depended on them. Like Chakri said, things that enable class skills should stay with the class.

 

Tbh I wish iRO never customized all their WoE-allowed-skills. Don't know who's idea that was and why the GMs gave in but things like backslide which was never suppose to be enabled only made the SC problem worse. 

Edited by Diskence, 17 October 2018 - 01:44 PM.

[Diskence]

Also, Ash should be clearable by lauda or something lmao. Single most broken skill ever, no one likes this skill. 

[icchigosan]

Just put the God Items in OCP and watch how those "Guild Masters" will supply everyone for FUN!

It's simple why commoners don't wanna woe,only guild masters reap the benifits [doesn't how rare it is]

Either put the GOD items in OCP or make every member get the opportunity of entering the Treasure Room in their own separate instance,though it can be easily ABUSED in its own way!

Just include the GODDIES in OCP,and these HYPOCRITE Guild Masters will ABANDON their guilds!
 

[LinskyLT]

If they were to use your suggestion of blocking fiber lock, they'd also have to consider extreme vacuum, manhole, thorn trap, song of despair, etc. These are even more powerful than fiber lock. Don't need to start blocking skills due to personal annoyances.

 

Come on, it's not personal annoyances, i just made an example to keep the same as what other servers do. Can just treat everything objectively? I used fiberlock too, where are my annoyances from??? If personally, I would like to use icewall as well, will it sound better to match what are you talking about?

[Ashuckel]

except fiber isnt disabled anywhere '-'


also, tbh, backslide is the least issue on chasers, than is the mask cooldown. If their mobility is such a big issue, why is no one aknowledging that Snap is the most powerfull skill in woe

Edited by Ashuckel, 18 October 2018 - 03:01 AM.

[ChakriGuard]

Just put the God Items in OCP and watch how those "Guild Masters" will supply everyone for FUN!
It's simple why commoners don't wanna woe,only guild masters reap the benifits [doesn't how rare it is]
Either put the GOD items in OCP or make every member get the opportunity of entering the Treasure Room in their own separate instance,though it can be easily ABUSED in its own way!
Just include the GODDIES in OCP,and these HYPOCRITE Guild Masters will ABANDON their guilds!

The reason people don’t WoE is because loots are garbage. Your reasoning that commoners don’t WoE because only guild masters will reap the benefits is pitiful. If commoners truly believed the loots are worthy, they would step up to become guild leaders themselves rolf

Dude, I remember you. You were the one who claimed that GX was weak and RG was OP or some -_-. It all makes sense now hahaha

Edited by ChakriGuard, 18 October 2018 - 03:28 AM.

[Diskence]

except fiber isnt disabled anywhere '-'


also, tbh, backslide is the least issue on chasers, than is the mask cooldown. If their mobility is such a big issue, why is no one aknowledging that Snap is the most powerfull skill in woe

 

Didn't say to disable it. 

 

Don't know how you think backslide isn't an issue, extremely high mobility skill that can move out of a bunch of stuff and get away easily on a class that can just stack reducs.

I think snap is OP too but snap isn't disabled on other servers so I won't argue about it. But backslide is not enabled on any other server, why is iRO always the customized one. If we are going to enable backslide why isn't pinpoint attack or charge attack enabled? *shrug*

[Ashuckel]

Then again, the issue isnt backslide, is the rest of their kit (because backslide is just 1 of the 3 or possible 4 movement skills they have access to)

(please leave GX backslide alone )

Edited by Ashuckel, 18 October 2018 - 03:43 AM.

[LinskyLT]

Then again, the issue isnt backslide, is the rest of their kit (because backslide is just 1 of the 3 or possible 4 movement skills they have access to)

(please leave GX backslide alone )

 

Well, you are right. Snap, blackslide, Flying kick, feintbomb, SC has 3 of 4. Tbh, it is really not the problem of the skill itself, i just wonder why blackslide was disabled before and other servers still do not activate it in woe, but it exists in iRO woe, that's the problem. Blackslide is just an EXAMPLE.