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Cheating, Exploiting, Duping and the like


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#1 Nirvanna21

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:17 PM

Hi All

 

This thread may seem like a knee jerk reaction or even a honey pot for a bad discussion.

 

But this is a serious question, and I am hoping for as many honest answers as possible from each and every individual member of this community. No name calling, no -_- stirring, just simple answers on these.

 

What are your thoughts on these topics in relation to RO?

 

Cheers,

-Mike


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#2 DarkOrinus

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:39 PM

They're there, they have been. I want them out, but every program ro developers make to deal with them, they seem to go around it somehow. It's starting to sound like a waste of resources. Resources by which they could have just expended to other matters.

 

Warpportal, not only for its lack of resources, but also for its instability cannot assure how many would have to be purged or annoyed for reasons like being unjustly affected even though innocent (Imagine if they hook something up to the client that's buggy? Though this depends on their budget allocation, for example, the less allocated the more useless the anti cheat program will be or worse, will bug out innocents with lag or unnecessary user experience problems). It seems like a bad idea to act upon it at the moment if you ask me, unless there is a better way to treat the situation, in which I have been agreeing to whatever skill edits you bunch would deem just right enough to avoid possible cheat and going with band aid fixes for exploits.

 

I don't support them, I don't loathe them either. I can't say I haven't played with cheaters though. I can't justify how I'm not one either, but I often feel like justice isn't to point fingers at each other like babies too. To which almost half of the community are doing.


Edited by DarkOrinus, 19 October 2018 - 02:42 PM.

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#3 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:46 PM

Duping seems to have become more and more common lately, quite frankly seems very pathetic it hasn't been fixed yet, don't even know if GM's know how it's being done, really feels like they should considering they can track dupes down, would think that'd give them a lead to how it's done.

 

Cheating might as well be 'legal' in RO for the fact they do nothing about it. People upload public videos of them using illegal GRF edits or the like and nothing is done. Can't really expect them to fix a lot of the cheats/abuses but seeing people punished for them would be nice for a change. And seeing them uphold perma-bans for severe cases would be nice, but they don't do that either.


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#4 ChakriGuard

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:52 PM

It is real and I believe Warpportal is not doing anything to stop it.

Every time I see this kind of topic, I can’t help but wonder what Warpportal is doing with my money lol
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#5 DarkOrinus

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 02:58 PM

I'll be as civil as I can, banning isn't much of an option. 

 

First, they can't ban everyone that is accused of cheating, exploiting or duping

Second, that can be anybody

 

There are cheaters calling other people cheaters, there are exploiters who call other people exploiters, there are cheaters who call other people exploiters and the dilemma goes on and on untiul nobody is innocent enough to be heard. You think 2018 is the year of innocence? No. It was the year everybody let cheating, exploiting, duping or hatever be normalized because they fell into each others' fraudulence.

 

lol


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#6 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:00 PM

It is real and I believe Warpportal is not doing anything to stop it.

Every time I see this kind of topic, I can’t help but wonder what Warpportal is doing with my money lol

They buy more rugs to sweep things under :)


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#7 carlczel

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:13 PM

what if they are using far away iP on their main iP to avoid detection..then dupe and dupe all the way. with seperate account registered on far away iP.. to avoid synchronized.. they know how to cloak..
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#8 mildcontempt

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:21 PM

Cheating and Duping should be outright banned, the kind of ban that has no return (so, account annihilated).

 

Exploiting is more gray to me, and depending on what it is I would argue it's clever players being clever to malicious and also deserving of disciplinary action that may go up to a ban.

 

I think players should also take it on their shoulders to report and influence cheating and duping wherever possible and not just turn their eyes away from the problem. 


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#9 KingPoring86

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:25 PM

soon the issue they having will pile up , resulting the end of the world ...

just saying , not just cheater we need to concern with ...

 

the poring spawn rate still havent fix .... ugh 


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#10 Campitor

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:26 PM

Thank you for voicing your concerns,

 

I know that cheating/duplication has been a long time concern within the community in particular centered around activities where players compete against each other head to head.

 

The GM team is going to start engaging in a lot more proactive activities in order to mitigate the bad behavior and you may see them during your play activities. They will checking for suspicious vends and trades and be reviewing them on the spot. Cordite will be heading up my teams efforts on this front and provide the GM team with much better abilities to track these trades down.

 

If you find a suspicious vend that you wish to report I ask that you PM Cordite on the forums. He will then tag in both the Head GM and the GM RO1 representative on the forums. They will deeply investigate each and every report to be absolutely sure that they have done everything they can to remove duplicated items from the economy.


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#11 LordYggdrasill

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:27 PM

I'll be as civil as I can, banning isn't much of an option.

First, they can't ban everyone that is accused of cheating, exploiting or duping
Second, that can be anybody

There are cheaters calling other people cheaters, there are exploiters who call other people exploiters, there are cheaters who call other people exploiters and the dilemma goes on and on untiul nobody is innocent enough to be heard. You think 2018 is the year of innocence? No. It was the year everybody let cheating, exploiting, duping or hatever be normalized because they fell into each others' fraudulence.

lol

Sure they can’t ban everyone, but there are always actions with more severe consequences than the others. Just like irl you can’t kill all criminals, but the ones who commit worst homicides may as well be executed.

At least, with all the problems they face right now, it’s necesarry to start from somewhere. It won’t be possible to tackle all ill mannered activities, but there’s something can be done to the worst of the worst.

Among all the issues iRO has right now, duping causes by far the most damage to the game’s Survival. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed is an utter disgrace, it needs to be taken care of as soon as possible.

Edited by LordYggdrasill, 19 October 2018 - 03:28 PM.

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#12 Scuba

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:28 PM

I believe that if we received no other content updates for 6 months, I would be okay with it if 100% of the studio's efforts went into packet security and stopping dupe methods.

 

 

Not only do these illegal activities make actually playing the game irrelevant, it also swamps support with verification tickets. It absolutely sucks that we have to be wary of every single MvP trade we do. Not just MvPs but OCP items too. This issue should be priority #1, and there should be no priority #2 until this is fixed. This constitutes as an emergency situation. And the studio should be reacting accordingly. In the "what to expect in Ragnarok 2018" thread, Camp said that the studio is unavailable except for emergencies. This qualifies 100%. Losing sales to dupers, undermining the "ultimate achievements" of the game, and exposing your players to CC fraud and worse. I can't stress enough that this is a nightmare scenario.

 

If possible these items need to be purged completely. Its not enough to remove duped items at this point though. Scooping cups of water from a bathtub that's full with faucet running isn't going to drain the tub. DB vulnerabilities and bad gamecode need to be fixed.


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#13 ChainsOfHeaven

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:34 PM

This is going to create a witch hunt and the GM team does not have a good track record on being accurate.


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#14 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:36 PM

So... do you guys know how the duping is getting done? Or still don't know that?


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#15 Campitor

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:40 PM

So... do you guys know how the duping is getting done? Or still don't know that?

If you know the method that doesn't involve the zones being crashed I would be very interested. I can say it is NOT the zone crash method as I would be bringing zones up alot more often.


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#16 Boyeteers

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 03:49 PM

With the number of players we have currently online why can’t GMs just monitor ppls one by one?
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#17 Ilindith

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 04:00 PM

If you know the method that doesn't involve the zones being crashed I would be very interested. I can say it is NOT the zone crash method as I would be bringing zones up alot more often.

Dungeons & Dragons ONline went through a few duping issues during my time over there.

 

Dunno if any of those I was aware of could work here or not but I could give you pointers on how they were done so you could attempt to replicate them here.


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#18 KriticalAssassin

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 04:13 PM

If you know the method that doesn't involve the zones being crashed I would be very interested. I can say it is NOT the zone crash method as I would be bringing zones up alot more often.

I have no clue, I have theories but doubt any of them would turn out. Kinda was hoping the GM team would know something from when they verify mvp cards or whatever and find it's a dupe they would see when/where it appeared from and have at least some sort of hint of how someone manages to dupe it. Idk what this "zone crash" method even is, lol.


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#19 kappakeepokupo

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 04:33 PM

I can't say much for cheating because I rarely WoE/PvP, but as for exploits/duping I believe WP should have been proactive much much earlier. These two are what new players notice first when coming into the server, and can be a huge turnoff for them. :v


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#20 VanishingPoint

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 05:29 PM

I'm pretty disappointed in the GM team and Gravity alike for constantly sweeping the big list of issues under the rug. I've left the game for several years due to said issues and recently came back only to find out that the issues have spiraled out of control--to a point of no return. Upon my return, I realized they managed to killed WoE and PvP despite the many warnings, the plea threads, the suggestion threads and the stiff stance from the guild leaders. The hardcore fan gave them many warnings way in advance and yet they still managed to killed the most important aspect of the game. Dupers are running rampant and no one gives a damn. There used to be an attempt to fight spam bots, but they have already gave up on that. What else will they give up on? Their 30 remaining loyal fans?

 

I understand that running a game company is no easy task. I understand the technical limit of the staff members, but locking threads and sweeping the dust under the rug can only go so far.  Most successful game companies managed to keep their fan-base by communicating with the community and act upon the community's suggestions instead of locking threads and deleting posts that does not fit their agendas.

 

I don't expect above and beyond from this team, but the least they can do is "try" to reduce the amount of cheating and duping in the game. The one word that comes to my mind regarding the said issues is extremely disappointed.


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#21 deforte

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 05:29 PM

its part of the game?

 

no i dint mean that but we need serious attention from players to players to support RO than accusing someone for cheating. maybe make reporting easy for those cases... who knows


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#22 AceBanner

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 05:31 PM

I believe most players here can agree with me on this, we just want to play a game where it's safe to trade/deal without worrying your items/zenies suddenly disappear. Worst is when GM ban you thinking you are the duplicator/exploiter/cheater. The most annoying is when you got ban because you made a deal/trade with these people & you need to send ticket to WP for prove of innocent.

With this topic, you'll suddenly see a lot of us could think like lawyers/judges.. :heh:


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#23 ChainsOfHeaven

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 05:40 PM

Campitor is one of the hardest people to get the attention of even when you have proof that something is going very awry. I am in no way trying to bring him down on what he does for the community. We have to face the facts here though... People have accused one another of duping for some time now. Remember that guy back in the day with 10k BMx3s? He was reported all the time and it turned out he just loved supporting the game. All this is going to to do is slow down tickets for legitimate players and have other players that hate one another have their whole guild report one person. This will also send a message to the people duping to sell in moderation. The Asian websites with these exploits do not care about getting banned. They move the product and sell the zeny, they can't lose in a situation like this.

Seriously though, pretty sure that a lot of these items are being injected into the game via a method that was on pservers a good ways back. Crashing zones has been known forever, it's how people were duping through the mail and why it was disabled.


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#24 yamasakai90

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 07:12 PM

My personal 2 zeny

 

Cheating = punishable when caught with sufficient proof?

Exploit = At this rate there are so many bugs I'm not even sure whats acceptable or not. As long as its not game breaking I guess. Hpwever whats game breaking? Instacast use to be for the so call elite so if someone exploits it its consider game breaking back then, but now its just something of the norm.

 

I guess stats +1,000 and 10m damage.

 

Honestly even 1-2s to kill MVP, i dont know if I want to include that as game breaking, you can do that with legit gears.

 

^ As long as it doesn't affect my game play much, I tend to stay neutral.

 

Duping = Now this... I'm getting tired of asking verification for anything thats cheap or 1b and above. Reason why i dont buy stuffs anymore. It feels weird that age long stuffs like a devi HBP and FAW has to be submitted for verifiction when it exchange hands.

 

Not to mention consummables like BBs, Gums and BMX.

 

All i care is my costumes an looking cute. Being warm and snuggly.


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#25 ChakriGuard

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 08:07 PM

I call a server wipe! Let's reset back to 0! 


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