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Physical RK vs RG


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#1 Johnny411

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 08:54 PM

Is it safe to say RG is the much stronger knight class as far as dps? RK seems to have been left behind with no rune improvement or even the new illusion spear coming anytime soon while RG has imperial set, hero set, and detachment ring coming soon for huge AOE damage of cannon spear. Is there any reason to even play Skills RK over RG? I've already reset both my RKs to DB build and looking to fully commit to gearing my RG.


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#2 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 12:28 AM

situational


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#3 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:08 AM

To your question on DPS:
RG definitely has much higher DPS-at least 2-3x higher overall DPS, but it is only because RK doesn't have any skill to spam. While that's the case, the DPS from IB/HS is still enough to clear most instance MVPs at a good speed, just not as fast.

However, not all game content and instances are about DPS. Some require DPS, some focus more on clearing groups of mobs faster and some need a combination of both.

In the AOE and mob clearing department, RK definitely has the edge since Ignition break has a much better AOE mobbing capabilities. Cannon spear has a narrow AOE while overbrand has a weird 1-cell targeting. However, DB build still has the greater AOE mobbing, so if that's what matters you will also not want the skill build RK.

Also, both RG and skill RK also have the same weaknesses. They can't deal with agi-ups and high difficulty MVPs like bio3/4 and Valk easily (unless you deck yourself out with MVPs like GTB and phreeoni), so either way both of them aren't likely to be good enough as the be-all PVM class like Gene and GX.


Overall, they are both just "good enough" to play through daily instances like Faceworm Nest or Horror Toy Factory with good speeds. RG has the much higher edge in DPS while RK has easier mob clearing with ignition break's big circle aoe. Depending on the instance you're playing, one of them will win out in clearing speed and easier use. Some examples: RG definitely wins in GMT clear speed, but skill RK will likely finish faceworm nest or Old Glast Heim faster.

3 star out of 5 for skill rk and 3.5 star out of 5 for RG- neither are exactly top tier.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 06 February 2019 - 06:41 AM.

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#4 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:32 AM

RG physical AoE can become vastly superior to phys RKs AoE, with investment/support with delay reduction and proper positioning/enemy matchup(aka not pushing monsters).

RKs single target can be very much superior come the person using the character lives in the other side of the planet with a derpy internet, wich will give her a pretty awful ping and ability to spam skills(dont have to deal with it on autoattacks)

etc.

Both classes can edge out each other in almost all scenarios, if the situation so does happens to happen.
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#5 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 06:40 AM

RG physical AoE can become vastly superior to phys RKs AoE, with investment/support with delay reduction and proper positioning/enemy matchup(aka not pushing monsters).

RKs single target can be very much superior come the person using the character lives in the other side of the planet with a derpy internet, wich will give her a pretty awful ping and ability to spam skills(dont have to deal with it on autoattacks)

etc.

Both classes can edge out each other in almost all scenarios, if the situation so does happens to happen.


Not exactly true.

In your first scenario you’re talking about spamming overbrand, but as said it has very sucky 1 cell ground targeting only in front of you, so in terms of aoe mob clearing it will still likely lose to just having to use ignition break to have a nice big circle aoe every 2 seconds. Plus, RG do not have unlimited endure like RK has with spear dynamo so he cannot gather mobs as frequently and freely as RK. Im not talking about the dps of the aoe skill but it’s capabilities to perform mob clearing. Like how even a low 50K DB will be king in running through ET lower levels due to its easy aoe spam. If you are referring to the dps of the AOE skill, then it’s pretty irrelevant as RG dps is higher regardless you pick overbrans spam or go for VP/CS.

Second case is also talking about extremities in terms of ping, but even then an RG optimizing to only cannon spear and overbrand will do higher overall DPS than RK in same gears since both skills have 2 seconds or lesser cooldown compared to 3 seconds on hundred spears.

On a solely class comparison basis, RG is the clear DPS winner while it has worse AOE mobbing capabilities.
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#6 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:00 AM

"worse mobbing capabolities" can be solved with getting skilled at the game :T
Overbrand requires a bit of targeting but isnt anything impossible(same goes for CS, wich is kind of a nuke comparable to IB when properly geared).
And so on.

Numbers side by side are fine, but those "situational" aspects will always apply to 90% of the population.(for example i dont have exactly the best ping, but nothing that stops me from playing really)

Also, nowhere did i compared anything to DB, it was strictly a phys RK :V Coz everybody knows and agrees DB is the most laid back playstyle in the game pretty much.

Edited by Ashuckel, 06 February 2019 - 07:04 AM.

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#7 Johnny411

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:07 AM

I'm more interested in completing ET solo without gods/mvp. So which knight class? i remember chakri couldn't even clear Valkyrie without gods/mvp but that was a while back though.


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#8 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:15 AM

I'm more interested in completing ET solo without gods/mvp. So which knight class? i remember chakri couldn't even clear Valkyrie without gods/mvp but that was a while back though.

 

They are about the same. Both of them can't exactly do complete ET solo without gods/mvp without dying and spamming several tokens to get through valk/ifrit. However, i think you still have a better chance with RG since you can possibly dodge earthquake by using prestige buff after dispel. Timing millenium shield for earthquake is a way more difficult task. Also, cannon spear being a ranged aoe skill means not having to suffer against reflect mob levels without playstyle change midway.

 

If you want to just abuse ET to floor 75-80 then just go with DB RK, there isn't anything faster. To actually complete ET cheaply it's better to go with gene or ranger. They are slower than DB RK in climbing speeds but at least they can finish it without needing insane investments.


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 06 February 2019 - 07:17 AM.

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#9 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:19 AM

ET wise, with limited funding, RG will have some struggles with ifrit, valk and beelz. (EQ,EQ,Agi Up) The class has ways to deal with them, but it aint braindead easy as the other encounters.

RK(assuming DB with a few spare atk gears) will find most of it's issues against Valk, where you will pretty much gamble on Crush Strikes to kill her, and token if necessary. And Entwein, bad element matchup and Defending Aura.
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#10 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:26 AM

Anyway, just to be clear here, i'm referring to skill RK as IB/HS str rk.

 

A pure crit RK or a hybrid DB RK can probably finish ET much easier than both skill RK and RG; but both are much more expensive. 


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#11 awesomegeek

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 07:49 AM

Is it safe to say RG is the much stronger knight class as far as dps? RK seems to have been left behind with no rune improvement or even the new illusion spear coming anytime soon while RG has imperial set, hero set, and detachment ring coming soon for huge AOE damage of cannon spear. Is there any reason to even play Skills RK over RG? I've already reset both my RKs to DB build and looking to fully commit to gearing my RG.

 

right now, RG does better single target DPS due to Imperial Boots & Hero Set.
when Rune "fix" comes, it will be close.
Also, when that Illusion spear comes, it will beat VP in DPS. (I've seen Munbalance use it in BIO5 and it was crazy).

About AoE, Ignition Break is really strong especially if you use Seyren carded Gelerdria.
The good thing about IB is its wide range.
The bad thing is it's still a close range attack.

Cannon Spear is narrow, but at least its ranged.
My RG is my fastest OGH farmer, even faster than my GX.
And that's because he has a ranged AOE.

However, RG's weakness remains on its sub par AOE range.
OB is suuuper annoying. If you get surrounded by mobs, neither Cannon or OB will hit all of them. Unlike Ignition Break.

Basically when you use, RG, you have to pay attention to your position vs the mob ALL the time.
Unlike when i'm using GX, i couldn't care less where I am exactly.

AGI-up used to be RG's main weakness. Thankfully, that has been addressed by Verus Core & Imperial Boots (freeing up the 2nd accessory slot).


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#12 Johnny411

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:08 AM

blackcross what crush strike gear do you use for your DB hyrbrid RK? I notice stat and skills in your guide but not equipment. There's also the new restless dead card that makes armor and weapon unbreakable looks good to just swap armor while using Crush strike.


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#13 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 08:33 AM

I use my crit RK gears last time, exactly the same in my guide. Except that armor i switch to +9 mighty armor in order to get 100% defense pierce and use surcoat for the double attack chance.

 

So in total it is:

ORC acute 5

mob set DLE Force3

+9 Mighty armor

+14 Lindy Hop (2AK)

+9 Surcoat (petal)

+9 Temp Luk FS7

Dogtag (GS)

PDM (GS)

 

A crush strike with double attack did 4.5m damage to valk. You have around 66% chance to instakill valk (as long as either double attack or turisus activate). If it fails you just need to revive when she walks away and go for another strike. 

 

It is still possible to one-shot valk without the Acute5 btw, since my damage already exceed her health by 1.3m dmg. The minimum you need is at least +12 lindy with a +9 evil marching hat.

 

You can also use other equipment like +10 devil hand for full defense pierce, so that you go temp ring instead of PDM and STR5/6 robe for even higher damage, but those are all based on your availability.

 

Otherwise, if you resort to violet fear and restless dead, you can still kill but only 15% chance to one-shot, otherwise you minimum need 3 good hits (meaning at least 2 token death).

 

As mentioned, it is not cheap to get a crush strike hybrid on db rk. I play it since i have the gears to begin with. The stats are:

 

STR 80

AGI 28

VIT 108

INT 90

DEX 120

LUK 80

 

 

*Edit*

By the way, i also do not feel that it is worth to spend so much extra zenny just to secure a good crush strike for your DB hybrid unless you also want to play a CRIT RK to begin with (being patient til 2019 end of year rune patch LOL). The zeny is better spent gearing a gene or ranger to finish. That's unless you really want your DB RK to finish ET no matter the cost.

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 06 February 2019 - 08:51 AM.

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#14 Johnny411

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:00 AM

I use my crit RK gears last time, exactly the same in my guide. Except that armor i switch to +9 mighty armor in order to get 100% defense pierce and use surcoat for the double attack chance.

 

So in total it is:

ORC acute 5

mob set DLE Force3

+9 Mighty armor

+14 Lindy Hop (2AK)

+9 Surcoat (petal)

+9 Temp Luk FS7

Dogtag (GS)

PDM (GS)

 

A crush strike with double attack did 4.5m damage to valk. You have around 66% chance to instakill valk (as long as either double attack or turisus activate). If it fails you just need to revive when she walks away and go for another strike. 

 

It is still possible to one-shot valk without the Acute5 btw, since my damage already exceed her health by 1.3m dmg. The minimum you need is at least +12 lindy with a +9 evil marching hat.

 

You can also use other equipment like +10 devil hand for full defense pierce, so that you go temp ring instead of PDM and STR5/6 robe for even higher damage, but those are all based on your availability.

 

Otherwise, if you resort to violet fear and restless dead, you can still kill but only 15% chance to one-shot, otherwise you minimum need 3 good hits (meaning at least 2 token death).

 

As mentioned, it is not cheap to get a crush strike hybrid on db rk. I play it since i have the gears to begin with. The stats are:

 

STR 80

AGI 28

VIT 108

INT 90

DEX 120

LUK 80

 

very nice, ill know what to do if i decide to main RK. I'm just hoping lindy will continue to drop in price.


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#15 Ashuckel

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:29 AM

since you get free Tokens when you are VIP daily, all you need is a decent crush strike, not even the best. Token once or twice, even 3 times if needed, and be done with it
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