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Proposal about non-kRO AHB


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#1 zeywei

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:06 AM

Proposal :   Fix non-kRO AHB  

- reduce 100% Arrow Strom cast time relative to the Level of user
- sp restoration should be reduce relative to the Level of user

At level 175 , none cast time reduction and 0.4% chance for sp restore
 

 

Autumn Headband
Spoiler

 

Reason :

Ranger used to divided in to 2 - 3 categories ,  
Arrow Strom Ranger , Speed Ranger , and Bomb Ranger .

With prior ocp  gears , rangers can manage to reach instant cast easily ,  as the trade-off for  attack speed .

Ranger with attack speed may use Arrow Strom  with phen equipments , spell flow , etc. with  trade-off for casting time , and SP.

Bomb ranger has been obsoleted since the first version of non-kRO head band.  I dont know what to talk about.

This situation create a barrier which make a game safe from broken state


What is broken :

Today  90m zeny headgear worth more than 4 mvp cards  .  Ranger has infinite SP with 1 int built ,  193 aspd and Instant cast in the same built .

From the last Lutie event  , I have seen  well famous Genetic  party with sura  , as MVP recognize people on the screen , it cast various skills like reflective , stonecurse , increase agi . MVP always cast reflective skill once they got hit by arrow strom.  Only when it recognize , attacking SOMEONE  on their screen.

I’m very surprised , my  ranger could  finish  bio5 Flamel with out getting a single attack nor awareness from MVP , with off-screen Arrow Strom and non speed delay runaway .
As mvp cant recognize any players on the screen , it didnt cast any skill nor protecting itself.  ( With original , outdated equipments it give a chance for MVP to recognize and take actions ) .  

non-kRO AHB made ranger  into the most broken class , require almost non investment to take  MVP which require  party with mvp cards  to finish.  

Any ranger can reach instant cast easlily without making the game broken.

With  old gears , my ranger can reach instant cast with   9% from Kath card , 7% from shadow gear , 50% from sound amp , 12% from BXB enchant . New ocp gave us 6% from Mob Scarf , and 4% from Mask .


Instead of breaking the game , i would like to make a proposal , non-kRO headgear should be exist to takecare , and support  new players untill their graduation . And give more challenge for them afterward.

Thank you


Edited by zeywei, 11 March 2019 - 01:24 AM.

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#2 Nirvanna21

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:59 AM

Rangers can instant cast with stats, what [kitten] uses reduction gears prior to the new ahb?


Edited by VModCinnamon, 11 March 2019 - 08:51 PM.
Mod Edit: Let's be nice!

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#3 Scuba

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 03:31 AM

I don't see how changing cast time affects someone's ability to offscreen MvPs.

 

Also pretty much every class in the OCP era has low cooldown / instant cast abilities. For example, Shrine Maiden gives instant cast Magnus Exorcismus + Damage for AB.

 

Most people don't like it when their gear becomes more functionally obsolete over time, so I think that is a bad idea. When it comes to upgrading gear at higher level, people want to switch up to something better, not because their existing gear becomes functionally worse over time.

 

Also there is a 0% chance they are going to change the features of a community headgear that everyone owns and took over a year of back and forth with community feedback / polls to determine its final effect.


Edited by Scuba, 11 March 2019 - 03:48 AM.

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#4 DarkOrinus

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 04:01 AM

i think the ahb we have now is fine, considering the highest barrier of a newbie ranger would be to shed some of that cast time for their suitability to kill before getting killed, all the while being subject to a lot of replacements moving forward as per gear and build progression


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#5 zeywei

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 04:34 AM

I don't see how changing cast time affects someone's ability to offscreen MvPs.

 

Also pretty much every class in the OCP era has low cooldown / instant cast abilities. For example, Shrine Maiden gives instant cast Magnus Exorcismus + Damage for AB.

 

Most people don't like it when their gear becomes more functionally obsolete over time, so I think that is a bad idea. When it comes to upgrading gear at higher level, people want to switch up to something better, not because their existing gear becomes functionally worse over time.

 

Also there is a 0% chance they are going to change the features of a community headgear that everyone owns and took over a year of back and forth with community feedback / polls to determine its final effect.

 

I understand some new player use camera cheat  to perform off-screen ( i have never know how  to )  .

Another reason perfect casting time should be removed , with both cheat and perfect cast  MVP has no chance to response. 

 

Changing would drop the price from current 350m , new players who still leveling and get  casting time reduction will be appreciate .

 


Edited by zeywei, 11 March 2019 - 04:42 AM.

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#6 DarkOrinus

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 04:55 AM

clean ones are cheaper, you only need a clean one to instant cast

 

the camera cheat might be that zoom out grf edit, ive heard about it but i stopped meddling with my grf right after i prettified my client and i got errors which led me to go back to a clean grf, never applying anything right after

 

even with access to that there are still chances certain mvp's would be fast enough to catch you. some heal, depends on the mvp really. some mvps were innate easy to trick like slow walkers that even my sorc outran during early boss hunts

 

so it also depends on the circumstance, as well as other gears that may contribute as other factors

 

 


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#7 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 05:14 AM

At endgame it is quite easy to get instant cast with raw stats and sp stops becoming an issue, so this change accomplishes nothing but screw one specific build? ok

AHB wont even be the best AS headgear in the future( it isnt now in some cases already)

Edited by Ashuckel, 11 March 2019 - 05:15 AM.

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#8 zeywei

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 05:43 AM

At endgame it is quite easy to get instant cast with raw stats and sp stops becoming an issue, so this change accomplishes nothing but screw one specific build? ok

AHB wont even be the best AS headgear in the future( it isnt now in some cases already)

 

 Thanks for sharing the same direction . I agreed at max level everyone can have instant cast , graduation from AHB will open more opportunity for rangers to explore unrecognized ocp headgears.


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#9 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 06:00 AM

read again
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#10 Diskence

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 04:37 PM

If anything change CEB and RPM back to how it is supposed to be. 


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#11 andxres

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 09:00 PM

Proposal : Fix non-kRO AHB

- reduce 100% Arrow Strom cast time relative to the Level of user
- sp restoration should be reduce relative to the Level of user

At level 175 , none cast time reduction and 0.4% chance for sp restore


Autumn Headband

Spoiler


Reason :

Ranger used to divided in to 2 - 3 categories ,
Arrow Strom Ranger , Speed Ranger , and Bomb Ranger .

With prior ocp gears , rangers can manage to reach instant cast easily , as the trade-off for attack speed .

Ranger with attack speed may use Arrow Strom with phen equipments , spell flow , etc. with trade-off for casting time , and SP.

Bomb ranger has been obsoleted since the first version of non-kRO head band. I dont know what to talk about.

This situation create a barrier which make a game safe from broken state


What is broken :

Today 90m zeny headgear worth more than 4 mvp cards . Ranger has infinite SP with 1 int built , 193 aspd and Instant cast in the same built .

From the last Lutie event , I have seen well famous Genetic party with sura , as MVP recognize people on the screen , it cast various skills like reflective , stonecurse , increase agi . MVP always cast reflective skill once they got hit by arrow strom. Only when it recognize , attacking SOMEONE on their screen.

I’m very surprised , my ranger could finish bio5 Flamel with out getting a single attack nor awareness from MVP , with off-screen Arrow Strom and non speed delay runaway .
As mvp cant recognize any players on the screen , it didnt cast any skill nor protecting itself. ( With original , outdated equipments it give a chance for MVP to recognize and take actions ) .

non-kRO AHB made ranger into the most broken class , require almost non investment to take MVP which require party with mvp cards to finish.

Any ranger can reach instant cast easlily without making the game broken.

With old gears , my ranger can reach instant cast with 9% from Kath card , 7% from shadow gear , 50% from sound amp , 12% from BXB enchant . New ocp gave us 6% from Mob Scarf , and 4% from Mask .


Instead of breaking the game , i would like to make a proposal , non-kRO headgear should be exist to takecare , and support new players untill their graduation . And give more challenge for them afterward.

Thank you


Just leave this gear as usual, you drunk!

I don't see any problem with this gear. Hybrid ranger and Warg crit has more broken gear.
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#12 VModCinnamon

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 01:53 AM

Due to the amount of incoming reports, please allow me to hijack this thread for an important notice,

 

It was brought to our attention very recently an unacceptable behavior from this section in specific.

Due to the nature of the proposals and the arguments they may stir, we expect of the users to respect others opinions and engage their arguments in a constructive manner. For example, if you are not happy with a given proposal you are welcome to post a counter argument, however, choosing the route of impoliteness, trolling, out-right disruptive behavior in this section in specific will not be tolerated any further. This includes limiting your responses to "no", "bad", "k" will be removed without a notice, resuming this behavior will lead to hourly ~ daily account suspensions, respectively.

 

Many posts and a topic were already purged off this section within the last 24~48 hours. I'd appreciate that we all work together to keep a healthy discussion environment, not necessarily limited to this section, so ;) Thank you!


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#13 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 02:10 AM

So ppl disagrement will be censored if they don't want to write an essay explaining their reasoning, interesting. Thats just as fair as some person wanting to bomb all negative feedback by reporting everybody's posts, cool.
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#14 VModCinnamon

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 03:08 AM

So ppl disagrement will be censored if they don't want to write an essay explaining their reasoning, interesting. Thats just as fair as some person wanting to bomb all negative feedback by reporting everybody's posts, cool.

 

Ashuckel, that's not the point of the moderation notice.

I'd wish to go into the details, but I cannot disclose the depths of the reports.

 

All what I am asking is, if a user disagrees with someone, go ahead, argue it all out and we will not at any means remove a disagreeing post with another user. The issue is, when a post in the manner of disagreement comes as rude/troll, here then we will act accordingly. I have given a few selective examples, in which the staff agreed to purge.

 

Allow me to say that, the back and forth reporting is overdone.

 

Now I said all of that, I'd honestly want to see the users be encouraged to polish valid and notable ideas to the community in which may help and improve, or perhaps counter an argument which in fact is not viable to the user and the game alike. It is that, when the users start hammering an idea's discussion with rude remarks, it is something we wouldn't like to see here.


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#15 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 03:40 AM

A simple "no" is nothing more than " i don't agree" but written shortly. But the latter wouldnt get deleted whereas the first would. There's nothing wrong or bad or rude in just stating you aren't agreeing with someone, without giving a fully detailed explanation of why you do so.
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#16 gaurus

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 04:16 AM

I don't agree with the proposal to nerf autumn headband. In the past yeah we go for int + dex build to get fast arrow storm cast and more sp.

The sp leech actually is a fine addition because arrow storm main weapon which is bxb have high sp consumptions rate hence why community ask for it in the first place.

With this headgear all it change is the meta. No more needing to drink sp pot every second just for sustain and stat can be allocate to other thing like more vit or even str. It ease new player by a lot.

About christmas event bio5, clab is huge. Of course you can kite mvp. Next time make christmas event in small space to give more challenge. Like 1/3 ET floor and lets see what happened.
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#17 VModCinnamon

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 05:08 AM

A simple "no" is nothing more than " i don't agree" but written shortly. But the latter wouldnt get deleted whereas the first would. There's nothing wrong or bad or rude in just stating you aren't agreeing with someone, without giving a fully detailed explanation of why you do so.

 

I agree with you to a certain degree, the context of the response that is is well understood, simple and short, however, the staff has strictly asked us to take action against such responses. We are here to carry their instructions. If the user is not well equipped to go beyond such response, then perhaps they may like to choose to not engage a proposal's discussion.


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#18 DarkOrinus

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 05:10 AM

A simple "no" is nothing more than " i don't agree" but written shortly. But the latter wouldnt get deleted whereas the first would. There's nothing wrong or bad or rude in just stating you aren't agreeing with someone, without giving a fully detailed explanation of why you do so.


actually, if the goal is to disagree i do think it's rude not to provide feedback on why it's not something of interest. as if a simple "no" makes sense to whoever you're conversing with

as credible as you may seem, you are still expected of the same with everyone regardless and that is to discuss and give context on your inputs that a simple "no" cannot provide

not that it happened in this thread, in a previous one rather
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#19 DarkOrinus

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 05:12 AM

dont get me wrong, i still disagree with the proposal too. based on the reasons everyone has laid out and was left afloat without solid reasoning for further defense of the stance
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#20 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 07:07 AM

I agree with you to a certain degree, the context of the response that is is well understood, simple and short, however, the staff has strictly asked us to take action against such responses. We are here to carry their instructions. If the user is not well equipped to go beyond such response, then perhaps they may like to choose to not engage a proposal's discussion.

and that is a pretty silly and lazy stance to regulate the forums on, severe censorship and strict posting formats instead of dealing with the bad when the bad actually happens. Forums arent this innactive just because of a lesser populated server,its because you can't post anymore

Edited by Ashuckel, 12 March 2019 - 07:12 AM.

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#21 zeywei

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 07:42 AM

I don't agree with the proposal to nerf autumn headband. In the past yeah we go for int + dex build to get fast arrow storm cast and more sp.

The sp leech actually is a fine addition because arrow storm main weapon which is bxb have high sp consumptions rate hence why community ask for it in the first place.

With this headgear all it change is the meta. No more needing to drink sp pot every second just for sustain and stat can be allocate to other thing like more vit or even str. It ease new player by a lot.

About christmas event bio5, clab is huge. Of course you can kite mvp. Next time make christmas event in small space to give more challenge. Like 1/3 ET floor and lets see what happened

 

If i remember correctly before sp restore gears arrival  anyone can maintain infinite sp with  2 Arch Angelings and  int ,

Some ranger use rideword hat / vanaguard helm / incubus pet .

 

I think today has more options with new ocp gears and some shadow gear .

 

For perfect cast , rangers get back to perfect casting by beezebub cards , darklord , kath ,

and fill 10% with ocps.

 

new Autumn is too nice , replacing all above cards with single headgear.

Autumn should offer convenience relative to the level of user .

 

I think the idea is very great , i wish each instances should be smaller . thank you for great idea !


Edited by zeywei, 12 March 2019 - 07:48 AM.

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#22 Toxn

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 08:01 AM

For perfect cast , rangers get back to perfect casting by beezebub cards , darklord , kath ,
and fill 10% with ocps.

Do you even understand the class behind the headgear you are complaining about here? It doesn't look like you do.
 

I agree with you to a certain degree, the context of the response that is is well understood, simple and short, however, the staff has strictly asked us to take action against such responses. We are here to carry their instructions. If the user is not well equipped to go beyond such response, then perhaps they may like to choose to not engage a proposal's discussion.

Then the staff needs to get their act together and stop the over moderation or re-enable the downvoting system. Because the way they have it right now discourages even making a post on WarpPortal forums, let alone even having a proposal section on the forum. Whats the point in having a proposal section if the mods are literally being told that disagreement isn't allowed?

Edited by Toxn, 12 March 2019 - 08:02 AM.

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#23 VModCoconut

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 08:42 AM

This thread is going down hill quickly. If you have issues with moderation or vmod actions, please contact CMAstra about these issues. Due to extreme off topic and hostility, I am going to lock it. If you have any other concerns or questions that we can help with that you feel don't need to be escalated to Astra, please PM myself or Cinnamon.

 

Thank you.


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#24 Campitor

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 09:22 AM

Reopening the thread.

 

As a note: Two things were an issue in this thread.

 

1. Its all about adding to the discussion. We have no desire to require that users post whole essays when responding to or reviewing proposals made by other users but we do request that they add to the discussion. All we ask is that users at least say a simple like such as "I don't think this is a good idea." At least give the poster a full sentence. The majority of the unhidden posts in this thread meet this criteria and are fine.

 

2. Keep postings clear of expletives and pejoratives. I know on the internet it is common to use words such as [Kittens], [Puppies], [Quokkas] and other bad words (even if made in very broad strokes such as referring to a larger group as [Koalas]) to mark a serious point, and I am guilty of this as well in my private off forum postings but we should be really avoid posting these words at all.

 

Please just keep it Civil.


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#25 junioran

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 09:50 AM

Rangers are really not as strong as you're making them out to be, with or without ahb. If you have played the class you should know how limited it is when compared to the likes of genetic or warlock, and that goes double for party play.


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