128 replies to this topic

[CaptainSunbear]

Honest question:

Do you guys think that the power creep and OCP keeps new players and/or “players who play on the other side of RO servers” (should be self explanatory) from trying iRO?

Mainly ask because I stream and I get that kinda feedback that they either think the OCP is overpowered or that there’s too much OCP and cash grabs than updates (but the updates are catching up tho, so far so good keep em coming)

Edited by CaptainSunbear, 20 March 2019 - 10:13 AM.

[digo666]

atts? BRO is up front almost, thing that never happened   there have "OCP" further there most is nerfed, they dont have same power from here.

[Nirvanna21]

Honest question:

Do you guys think that the power creep and OCP keeps new players and/or “players who play on the other side of RO servers” (should be self explanatory) from trying iRO?

Mainly ask because I stream and I get that kinda feedback that they either think the OCP is overpowered or that there’s too much OCP and cash grabs than updates (but the updates are catching up tho, so far so good keep em coming)

 

OCP in my opinion falls into certain categories.

 

Category A: This item serves no purpose other than to fill in the box contents i.e. Long Tongue

Category B: This item should have never hit our servers i.e. Abyss Dress, Nature's Dress, all upper headgears offering 100% bypass to any form of defense

Category C: This item fulfills a need that should have been addressed a long time ago i.e. Magician's Glove, Nameless Swordman Shoes

 

I don't hate OCP per say, I hate how it was introduced, why on earth they introduced slotted versions of OCPs, how they couldn't balance them without it being too much work etc.

 

Thing is, I never cared for Illusion updates, I think they are lazy and honestly, the game HAS content, it just has no polish. It's restricted because the developers saw fit to suck at designing a game that expanded beyond 150. OCP has been a substitute to the lack of action from the developers. It gave us something new each month that "did" their job for them. I really hate the cash shop system now, it's really in your face, led to super inflation and the rates of the boxes are -_- disastrous. I haven't been able to recommend this game for the longest time now because it really has so many issues and things are not being addressed at all by nearly anyone, at least not at a rate that can genuinely help. And the things promised kept on getting pushed further and further, excuse after excuse.

[nyyaan]

Honest question:

Do you guys think that the power creep and OCP keeps new players and/or “players who play on the other side of RO servers” (should be self explanatory) from trying iRO?

Mainly ask because I stream and I get that kinda feedback that they either think the OCP is overpowered or that there’s too much OCP and cash grabs than updates (but the updates are catching up tho, so far so good keep em coming)

 

OCPs are not culprits of iRO low population. These same people who complain about OCPs are probably the same people who are playing RoM now or any other games that are newer and more P2W/broken than iRO.

 

The problem with iRO is that it is a very old server. Old players have alts to abuse instances. For example, X' Mas event that we just had. New players know this well that no matter what, they will never catch up with old players.

 

We can expect to see this in RoM as well. Next year, you can predict that there will be no new players in RoM as new players realize that they're too far behind. In fact, if you play RoM, try visiting IN. Maps are empty and full of bots farming Minis/MvPs. That's when people start quiting the game (RoM) to play Tencent, a fresh start where they think they have a shot to be strong players.

 

iRO doesnt need to bring in new players. It is a 17 years old serer. What it needs to do is to maintain the remaining loyal players, which iRO is so bad at doing it.

 

For the record, 

RoM is more broken than iRO. In 2 years, players can hit up to 150m burst damage. Compared to iRO? I've never seen anyone can do 150m damage and server is 17 years already.

RoM is more P2W
RoM is not MMROPG

RoM doesnt have their official forums, they only have official facebook page.

 

Yet, seems like at least Global RoM population is quite low but it is still higher than iRO.

Edited by nyyaan, 20 March 2019 - 11:03 AM.

[blackCROSSCY]

old server really isn’t a problem. If it was there won’t be 2.5K players last year. I think it really is a series of bad decision making that led to this low population.

2years ago, the release of OCP was great and bio5 also came. Many classes became playable and all was good at this point. But that’s where it ends. We had 2 major player strikes from EU/TW ban since then and unfulfilled promises of content updates which really hurt a lot of player expectations. All we had was 1 illusion update a year which is really bad. Honestly, the really good illusion dungeons are all at the back so for it to be fun for players, you need to release them faster. I bet a lot used to look forward to abyss illusion, but the next one is frozen and it’s already taking forever-very easy to lose patience and give up to go other servers, even private.

Sure, there was also card rate improvements for brief periods and even the xmas event but those are just short term bandaid fixes to get players to carry on playing. It won’t work forever.

For a game that is still able to generate good cash flow from new monthly boxes, there really should be accompanying content updates frequently. Not asking for monthly, but at least 2-3months. When kRO doesn’t give anything, iRO can still come up with their own custom events. Events that aren’t just do one quest and forget it, but rather rewarding for playing daily. Xmas was a good type but there can be many versions like just clearing instances for lucky draw in addition to just “spotlighting” it.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 20 March 2019 - 05:25 PM.

[BoyAtlas]

Yeesh....I thought i was hardcore spending 45 dollars one time.....200? no thnx lol

[BoyAtlas]

old server really isn’t a problem. If it was there won’t be 2.5K players last year. I think it really is a series of bad decision making that led to this low population.

2years ago, the release of OCP was great and bio5 also came. Many classes became playable and all was good at this point. But that’s where it ends. We had 2 major player strikes from EU/TW ban since then and unfulfilled promises of content updates which really hurt a lot of player expectations. All we had was 1 illusion update a year which is really bad. Honestly, the really good illusion dungeons are all at the back so for it to be fun for players, you need to release them faster. I bet a lot used to look forward to abyss illusion, but the next one is frozen and it’s already taking forever-very easy to lose patience and give up to go other servers, even private.

Sure, there was also card rate improvements for brief periods and even the xmas event but those are just short term bandaid fixes to get players to carry on playing. It won’t work forever.

For a game that is still able to generate good cash flow from new monthly boxes, there really should be accompanying content updates frequently. Not asking for monthly, but at least 2-3months. When kRO doesn’t give anything, iRO can still come up with their own custom events. Events that aren’t just do one quest and forget it, but rather rewarding for playing daily. Xmas was a good type but there can be many versions like just clearing instances for lucky draw in addition to just “spotlighting” it.

at this point imo I feel like this game isn't new player friendly at all. Everything is extremely expensive

 

and almost to the point where you have to spend rtm to enjoy the game no one in their right mind is

 

going to feel motivated  to grind a billion for every piece of gear. the risk vs reward isn't appealing in

 

this game. the gamble rarely ever feels in your favor.

[Exvee]

OCPs are not culprits of iRO low population. These same people who complain about OCPs are probably the same people who are playing RoM now or any other games that are newer and more P2W/broken than iRO.

 

The problem with iRO is that it is a very old server. Old players have alts to abuse instances. For example, X' Mas event that we just had. New players know this well that no matter what, they will never catch up with old players.

 

We can expect to see this in RoM as well. Next year, you can predict that there will be no new players in RoM as new players realize that they're too far behind. In fact, if you play RoM, try visiting IN. Maps are empty and full of bots farming Minis/MvPs. That's when people start quiting the game (RoM) to play Tencent, a fresh start where they think they have a shot to be strong players.

 

iRO doesnt need to bring in new players. It is a 17 years old serer. What it needs to do is to maintain the remaining loyal players, which iRO is so bad at doing it.

 

For the record, 

RoM is more broken than iRO. In 2 years, players can hit up to 150m burst damage. Compared to iRO? I've never seen anyone can do 150m damage and server is 17 years already.

RoM is more P2W
RoM is not MMROPG

RoM doesnt have their official forums, they only have official facebook page.

 

Yet, seems like at least Global RoM population is quite low but it is still higher than iRO.

 

There are words called Marketing, Fun, and Addiction. You can tell 1000 negative facts about ROM but iRO just need few negative facts to negate 3 words above...

 

OCP existing is not even the problem. The problem is how OCP become turning point and changing everything that were once fun in my school era playing iRO to boring one...

 

[LeeKelly]

Some OCPs actually helped some classes to be more competitive. The server just needs new content to test out those new OCPs.

[YongkySH]

Apparently illusion dungeon are the new content to test those new OCPs

[Nirvanna21]

Some OCPs actually helped some classes to be more competitive. The server just needs new content to test out those new OCPs.

 

The only classes that were truly gimped were magic classes.

[LeeKelly]

Not only mage classes but other classes as well.

Edited by LeeKelly, 21 March 2019 - 08:30 PM.

[Shinoru]

Spoiler

 

[digo666]

I like and use, the big problem and that there is no content at all, Until today I hope YSF01.

 

And why the hell? set YSF01/excelion is on site, if dont have

 

it looks like misleading advertisement

 

no use you have a car boosted [OCP] and there is no avenue to running [atts update]    

 

little updates dont keep players active!

 

sorry my english broken!

Edited by digo666, 21 March 2019 - 09:10 PM.

[zx56vb]

I have played JRO for 2 months already, I have some good examples about OCP gears:

 

In JRO: a +9 abyss =3.2B, and in JRO, 1B = about 300-350usd

Does it kill gloom card(8B in JRO)?

No, JRO has many powerful armors, something like an armor with Hawkeye enhancement(yea it is expensive, about 3.5B), JRO's formula is close to 1.0 so bonus ATK from every 10 dex is astonishing;

you could always find an powerful armor with gloom card, and together they are much much better than just an abyss dress.

So you see that in JRO ocp items won't totally replace in-game items; it is just an optional way for players to approach the endgame. If you are a long time JRO player who has gloom card, do you really feel bad about abyss dress? Not really.

How about in IRO? Maybe the best is +14 abusive with double S3/D3? How much is +14 abusive+double S3/D3+gloom card? I don't think those gloom card owners would be happy to see abyss dress in ocp box.

 

Another problem is that may OCPs have special OP effect when they are +10, in JRO, a 100m headgear can be sold at the price of 6B when it is +10.

I think cost of +10 in JRO is close to +15(lv4 weapon) in our server. 

 

OCP is a good idea, but they all need to be adjusted according to IRO's environment 

[Ashuckel]

refinement on jRO is a big deal, it's hard and expensive as f there

[YongkySH]

3.2b for +9 abyss? Same price in zeny but vastly different in USD lol

[blackCROSSCY]

Its not easy to refine stufff in jRO. That’s why the effects get so powerful at high upgrades (which stops at +10).

By direct importing their items with their upgrade over, we are getting it easier to achieve the strong effects. Honestly, almost every server is a different game altogether, so the impact of each new item is vastly different on each server as well.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 22 March 2019 - 03:12 AM.

[Sigma1]

JRO Ragcan started on June 2012. That means there is a lot of stuff pending to implement.
Unless IRO change the cash shop policy (like implementing KRO shadow gears or cash items instead).
OCP will still be implemented to IRO for 5+ years.

Edited by Sigma1, 22 March 2019 - 06:46 PM.

[CaptainSunbear]

So what kind of plan of action can we take moving forward?

Many of the items a character can use are replaced by OCP gears, accessories, boots, garments, armors, headgears, mid lower, even weapons and shields. 
If not they go in conjunction with some of the items in game.

what about reducing the potency of such "broken" gears that make things just too easy? 

Can we instead obtain the so called "kRO" equipment one way or another? 

 

we know the ragcan items will sell, what if we start throwing in the actual kRO items and keep the current consumables like odas, BMX3, BB, HE BBG, add more job manuals and other types of "premium" consumables. 

People really seem to like anything that is kRO based. Perhaps this would be a good idea to deviate from all the broken items?

items such as faceworm eggshell, the headgear for Heart Hunter Base, Happy Flapping Angel Wings, that reduce the damage taken and increase damage given to the enemies in a certain map as "OK" by my book since realistically we can manage without them,. but they are nice to have since they just make things "faster" doesn't really make you better.

 

Everyone is waking up to the silliness of OCP gears (well, we are speaking up more on it) and we are now being more vocal about the damage it is doing to us.

Campitor, we must have a discussion about this, we can't be reaching the tipping point and then try to fix it. Please talk to the studio, reduce the amount of OCPs coming in, don't bring it too many broken gears that just make things ridiculously easy as it is, add more of the ingame equipment (actually I think we are almost as good as it is in terms of the Heroes trails instances except for GMT enchants and some other cards but)

Even with Nightmare OGH/NOGH (not to be confused for NO OGH)
GMT enchants
Some additional kRO gear from them brought to us, we can still be strong but not on ridiculous levels of "ima just one shot everything and gg bois"

inb4 green aura - > we might still have an easy time

[zx56vb]

what OCP hurt us is its price.

This sounds stupid, but the problem is that OCP OP items are too cheap to obtain.

Yea a cheap ocp is friendly to new players, but it also killed the potential of this game: farm in this game makes no sense now.

Without OCP, or OCP are very expensive, then the requirement for dungeon drop gears will increase, so does the price, the this makes players' farm valuable.

For example: if there is a dungeon gear which need player to farm 300 hours to obtain, and an OCP item which has similar function has price  of 30B, then players' farming income is at least 30B/300h=100m/h, if OCP item is only 3b, then players farming is only 10m/h.

 

RO is a game not  kindergarten，and GM is game support not housekeeper, game should be challenging.

 

[YongkySH]

iRO also missing many dungeon drop gears/enchant

[zeywei]

I think they're in need of money and OCP can't be avoid at any cost . 

 

Assume 500 players paid $15 monthly for vip , they can hire only one employee .

One ocp release  , estimate 100 players spent $50  . They can hire another one employee .

 

Monthly income sufficient for two employee with this rough estimation .

 

 

 

 

 

[Erlak]

what OCP hurt us is its price.

This sounds stupid, but the problem is that OCP OP items are too cheap to obtain.

Yea a cheap ocp is friendly to new players, but it also killed the potential of this game: farm in this game makes no sense now.

Without OCP, or OCP are very expensive, then the requirement for dungeon drop gears will increase, so does the price, the this makes players' farm valuable.

For example: if there is a dungeon gear which need player to farm 300 hours to obtain, and an OCP item which has similar function has price  of 30B, then players' farming income is at least 30B/300h=100m/h, if OCP item is only 3b, then players farming is only 10m/h.

 

RO is a game not  kindergarten，and GM is game support not housekeeper, game should be challenging.

 

10m/h where and how do you do it? I really want to know, because even when nogghoad was at its peak the lootdroop was around 3~5m/h, if you played endlessly like a machine.

and you say ocp's items are cheap and accessible to new players, I'd like to know where this information came from, because all the forum topics speak the exact opposite.

and just to finish, the generation of zeny was not made to be easy, it should be a long and painful process but the bots made it seem like something simple and fast.
and the main culprits for problems with bots are the players themselves, because they only keep selling something if they have players wanting to buy.

[blackCROSSCY]

what OCP hurt us is its price.
This sounds stupid, but the problem is that OCP OP items are too cheap to obtain.
Yea a cheap ocp is friendly to new players, but it also killed the potential of this game: farm in this game makes no sense now.
Without OCP, or OCP are very expensive, then the requirement for dungeon drop gears will increase, so does the price, the this makes players' farm valuable.
For example: if there is a dungeon gear which need player to farm 300 hours to obtain, and an OCP item which has similar function has price of 30B, then players' farming income is at least 30B/300h=100m/h, if OCP item is only 3b, then players farming is only 10m/h.

RO is a game not kindergarten，and GM is game support not housekeeper, game should be challenging.

sadly i don’t reallt agree with your point for this. Firstly the good OCP pieces are already really expensive, getting a rare OCP is only around 1-2% chance if i rmb correctly, so on average it can already go to 100USD each (by KP chances, not from you buying zeny to get from others who gambled). If OCP pieces are even more expensive, most classes will not be playable, which is really just brings us back to the past where pretty much you can only choose classes who are strong by default-utterly unbalanced crap imo.

What really needs to happen is that iRO needs real game content that works. Remember that kRO doesn’t have so many OP OCP items, but rather only the hero weapon+shoe set as new cash stuff generally, so there's only so much cash stuff for them to buy, and then have to go ahead to farm their end game MVP cards and high end equipment. jRO is pretty similar even though they have OCP items. There are a LOT of strong equipment that comes from events and quests that are equal or even better than OCP items for different classes, so there’s something for players to farm and earn while they use OCP if they choose to.

As i’ve mentioned before, iRO just does things halfway. They only released the jRO cash equipment without having in-game content to go with it. Almost all of the jRO equipment are far stronger than most kRO ones so if we only go with the kRO content updates (which are already coming at a snails pace), then most of the current game content become meaningless other than to farm for MVP cards and consumables.

If you recall again, many items that players wish for in the request thread are actually jRO in-game items. Things like the abyss ring the RK dragon spear, and a ton of those MVP-combo equipments like the amon-ra shoes and swordsman shoes. If we go with the jRO route. we would need to eventually have equivalent events and quests that offers these level of in-game items to farm for. otherwise the consequences are already as seen- you just buy cash equipment for your characters and none of the game content are good (except weapons), all you do is farm for MVP cards at their stupid low rates and play the praying game.

Remember, this is not a ragnarok online problem. Each server has their own balance for classes and cash/game content, so the OCP problem is unique to us. If we could keep up with kRO's game-updates, things won't be too bad even though certain OCP items are still stronger, but we know that's never going to happen. I would think that having jRO send their in-game items for us to earn in custom iRO events quarterly could be a good idea, but honestly it’s up to WP if they want to spend the time and effort to balance this issue- in their own ways or sth. Some of the other methods could be to revitalise current content stuff by making them relevant if updates are not possible- like expanding eden badges to more instance items.

Edited by blackCROSSCY, 23 March 2019 - 03:45 AM.