61 replies to this topic

[Benniiii]

This isnt Restart

[Suraborn]

Okay well now I know anything you say is absolutely off base because you’re using precasting as a focal point. I won’t even bother asking for your woe guild history because I’m sure it’s a precasting snow globe of casual fun.

So you’re right, I was wrong to say you were trolling. Trolling would imply you know better

[nyyaan]

But but but ... Renewal WoE is bad because it has become a one shot feast! We dont need that cancer in RoT again :/

[xSwain]

I think that removing player choices was what made RO WoEs boring.

 

Back in time each class had a function and a counter in WoE. Knights jumping on Wizards, Monks killing Knights, Sages dispelling monks and dissolving enemies' ME, dancers stunning, Priests recovering Wizards and protecting the emp, etc...

 

RO never had a true build choice or balancing for WoEs, but at least you could go for int/dex wizard and need a Priest spamming recovery on you or put vit and support the guild. Same as Monks, more dex, more Asuras per minute, but weak against Knights and Templars or a longer cast, but a one shot character. Cast 5 spheres, fury, cast 5 more spheres, and grind tons of blue potions was the game barrier, you could be countered if your spheres went absorved or you get dispelled.

 

Then transclasses came, and SinX entered the meta with EDPs, you could switch shields/katars after sonic blows, and good AoE damage with grimtooth, but still a counterable class. Then the hell came to the game with Acid Bombs, even a dispelled creator could destroy an entire guild under bragi effect on a safety range. What was suposed to need Zen > Fury > Zen > Get closer > Asura and could be countered by dispell or absorb, now can just spam 1 button on ranged distance.

 

If you had Vit, creators would destroy you, if you hadn't, stunned to death.

 

Then 3rd jobs, Rune Knights can Area Burst, Mechanics can area burst, Suras can burst without lose all mana and fury. No more counter plays or team focus, just raw damage in every direction.

 

Now the solution was put cooldown on everything considered too strong and determine your combat pacing.

 

Monks can one shot everyone since their cast won't change much with dex, and don't need much vit, because dancers cannot spam stun anymore, but after that need to get out of combat for 10 seconds.

 

Agi Crusaders can just spam Holy Cross and kill every weak class.

 

All Hunters can do is spam traps and hope for someone step into that.

 

My opinion, but after each try of balancing RO classes I feel more and more that WoEs could be exchanged for an Auto-Chess game.

Edited by xSwain, 22 December 2019 - 06:24 AM.

[Lilp]

Just tested monk. Looks like RT is getting fixed cast time gfist. Meaning dex/int won't reduce fist cast time even w/ bragi. So killing knights just got harder.

[Suraborn]

Just tested monk. Looks like RT is getting fixed cast time gfist. Meaning dex/int won't reduce fist cast time even w/ bragi. So killing knights just got harder.

 

 

Yay 

[xSwain]

Unless you use it after combo as instant cast.

 

Or have some devotion crusader with you, put 1 dex and 8x vit. You as monk won't be killed either.

Edited by xSwain, 22 December 2019 - 08:02 AM.

[AaronP2W]

Just tested monk. Looks like RT is getting fixed cast time gfist. Meaning dex/int won't reduce fist cast time even w/ bragi. So killing knights just got harder.

 

Yeah this is really bad. 1 second Asura + 10 second sp penalty is going to make for a really bad pre-trans woe. 

 

The 1 second fixed cast time is actually balanced if there was no sp cooldown penalty. 

[ellenfrfx]

I guess some people are keen for another Knightnarok WoE meta on this server.   That is awesome if we really do get the Zero/Renewal changes but what is the timeline on those? Some changes should be implemented as soon as possible unless we want another Re:Start. And saying this as a non-Monk player, I hope WP considers reducing the CD to 3 secs on launch or at least before WoE begins.

[TwilightsCall]

I imagine WoE won't be implemented for a while. I'd be pretty happy to delay WoE starting until after the skill changes came through, assuming we get them within a reasonable timeframe. If we get them within the first 1~3 months of the server going officially live, I don't think many people will complain about holding off on WoE. If it's going to take 6+ months...there's a lot more problems there, but WoE timing certainly becomes one of them.

[AaronP2W]

Is there confirmation we are getting skill changes eventually? If we are going to get the skill changes that early they might as well wait to release the server WITH the skill changes as it would be the main feature of the server... 

[VModCinnamon]

The general class skill balance changes are to come in future, however there can be early changes made in house.

This thread and others have been linked to the new feedback thread found here by the way.

[xSwain]

Is there confirmation we are getting skill changes eventually? If we are going to get the skill changes that early they might as well wait to release the server WITH the skill changes as it would be the main feature of the server... 

 

Campitor said once that since the changes was already implemented in kRO, it would come to RT "eventually". So we will probably have the RO: Zero skill changes.

 

My concern is about this "eventually" creating a MOBA patch meta, where some week they balance a set of skills, another set next week, then some skill became too strong, they nerf it on the next week, etc.

 

This is exactly what happened with "RO Spiritual Successor", they wanted so hard to balance everything after the game launched that some month X class with Y build was extremely strong, than 2 weeks later this same build became trash, creating a reset-scroll fest.

Edited by xSwain, 23 December 2019 - 07:15 AM.

[AaronP2W]

I'm not opposed to the new skill changes as it would be interesting for people to figure out and play around with but it seems a bid odd to do it after everyone has made their character. The skill changes can completely change a character's usefulness or purpose. 

 

Maybe it would make sense to add the skill changes with trans release? 

The general class skill balance changes are to come in future, however there can be early changes made in house.

This thread and others have been linked to the new feedback thread found here by the way.

 

Thank you, happy to see this new section!

[xSwain]

I would really appreciate if they release a list of changes they're planning even before they start to implement, so we could discuss about the balancing and prepare our minds/characters for that.

Edited by xSwain, 23 December 2019 - 07:23 AM.

[AaronP2W]

Related to Asura:

 

It would be better if Asura had a 15-25 second cooldown instead of the sp penalty of 10 seconds since that would allow you to actually play your character and do other things in between using Asura. 

[Panteperu]

So according to some arguments, lowering asura cooldown would actually lower the amount of people playing knights?

How come? I dont see why people would play other classes than knights or more monks if they remove cooldown.

Plus i dont see how 1 player securing a kill every 15seconds~ is not op at all.

Balancing damage on classes would work better than buffing the onehit class

[AaronP2W]

Balancing damage on classes would work better than buffing the onehit class

 

Because that's a huge task and no one trusts warpportal to do large-scale skill balancing... 

 

I'm sure some experienced players would be able to put many hours into it and be able to figure out new skill balance, but we are not delusional enough to believe it would be implemented. 

[xSwain]

Asura won't secure a kill, it's the longest and most counterable skill in the game, you need to cast 10 times a skill, go to a melee range and cast a skill that ends your SP. If someone absorb your spiritual spheres or dispell you, you have to cast 5 times again. If you can't afford blue potions, you won't be able to play the WoE either.

 

I played as monk for a long time and I can tell the possibly reason that makes monks stronger than it should be: Snap. The problem is not monks one-hitting Knights, is the ability to kill someone, cast a spiritual sphere and snap back to safety extremely fast. Want to balance monks without destroy the class ? Just make Snap depending on Fury to be used, so when monks jump inside enemy guild and kills someone, they need to cast all spheres > Fury > then snap back to safety.

 

Three things killed Knights: Gutter Line bug, Low damage and Acid Demonstration.

 

Imagine you as Lord Knight, you run inside enemy's guild and started using BB. Now you know that if the enemy is on some bugged cell, your BB damage, that isn't so high, will be cutted by half. But it's ok, you like the class and keep attacking.

You now watch some Creator using full def gear, protected inside his guild's ME, far away from Champs, with sacrifice spamming a skill that kills you before you think about using pots... and the best, if you dispell or use any debuff on him, the damage will still kill you in no time.

Edited by xSwain, 23 December 2019 - 11:25 AM.

[3505170703074552307]

no custom crap please, just follow everything kRo have.

[AaronP2W]

 

I played as monk for a long time and I can tell the possibly reason that makes monks stronger than it should be: Snap. The problem is not monks one-hitting Knights, is the ability to kill someone, cast a spiritual sphere and snap back to safety extremely fast. Want to balance monks without destroy the class ? Just make Snap depending on Fury to be used, so when monks jump inside enemy guild and kills someone, they need to cast all spheres > Fury > then snap back to safety.

 

 

Require fury or consume a sphere to use snap. 

[Boyeteers]

I wanna know why knights can’t get one shotted even they get frozen or lexed.

[xSwain]

no custom crap please, just follow everything kRo have.

 
So you really know what kRO has or are just here wanting something that you don't even know how works ? Cause I don't think anyone here would want the p2w cash shop of kRO.
 

Require fury or consume a sphere to use snap.

The problem is that, you can just Asura, cast 1 sphere and snap back, IMO fury should be needed to perform snap.

Edited by xSwain, 23 December 2019 - 12:15 PM.

[AaronP2W]

 
The problem is that, you can just Asura, cast 1 sphere and snap back, IMO fury should be needed to perform snap.

 

That's fair, or require both. 

[3505170703074552307]

 
So you really know what kRO has or are just here wanting something that you don't even know how works ? Cause I don't think anyone here would want the p2w cash shop of kRO.
 

 

https://www.divine-p...classes-skills/

credit to sigma1

 

Just bring them in ordered update without prioritizing any class. 

they know what they are doing, its their game, and their player know better to correct them if they messed up.

 

also our current "jro" cashshop gear is still waaaaay worse than kRO stuff