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Raider Dual AOE's cooldown


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#1 Paulera

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 06:38 AM

Mages have 6 aoe skills with separated cooldowns and Champs got 3. Don't know about Artisans and Bourgs, but it's unfair the cooldown share in Spiral Kick and Circle Brake skills for Raider Dual build.

There's any specific reason for not doing each skill having your own cooldown, or just forgotten when did it to champs and mages?
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#2 axel619

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 06:50 AM

i think ur right about the dual aoe's :D
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#3 Phish

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 09:13 AM

I don't see why not, these aoe' have no status effects anyway (where as all the other classes aoes have one). Champs also have 4 aoes if that helps (haha)
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#4 Paulera

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 09:24 AM

I don't see why not, these aoe' have no status effects anyway (where as all the other classes aoes have one). Champs also have 4 aoes if that helps (haha)

yes, i forgot combat cry. in addition to def down it have a nice magic damage ammount.

it's really unfair 2 aoes sharing the same cooldown when mage and champ have 3 and 2 times more aoe and with debuff/effects.

i hope dev team see this topic and give us a reply. changing it is as simple task that can be done in the next patch.
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#5 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:35 AM

its been in my mind to post it for a while

+10000000
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#6 AlisiaMT

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 06:59 AM

Knights have 2 seperate aoe's too. dealers have aoe i just don't know how many.
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#7 DoubleRose

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 04:50 PM

the spear aoes don't share a cool down...
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#8 Kirara

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 10:31 AM

id have to agree because the Raiders AOE is a lot weaker then the champs and Ect,

+1 :rolleyes:
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#9 Viceking

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 01:54 PM

great point 3+
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#10 DoubleRose

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 05:33 PM

Mages have 6 aoe skills with separated cooldowns and Champs got 3. Don't know about Artisans and Bourgs, but it's unfair the cooldown share in Spiral Kick and Circle Brake skills for Raider Dual build.

There's any specific reason for not doing each skill having your own cooldown, or just forgotten when did it to champs and mages?


champs have 4...
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#11 twitch

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 01:11 AM

dual raiders are underpowerd and i dont think 2 different aoe's will make the difference
give dual raiders cloak!
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#12 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 10:02 AM

Here is the main stat to weapon attack power ratio from a thread some where on the forum:
Katar
STR
Attack: .35

DEX
Attack: .55

Dual Swords
STR
Attack: .55

DEX
Attack: .35

In my opinion, Dual Swords should have the same ratio as Katar instead of reversing it now, one of the reason why Dual Swords Raider sucks. Would be nice if Circle break gets a faster cool down, but think about it, if Circle break cool down is faster, all you have to do during leveling would be just spam your hotkey for circle break, then leveling would become very boring...the main reason to play a dual raider is because how cool the skills are.

If you ask me, I would just make the main stat to AP ratio the same as Katar's, so Dual raider gets more AP and then I would move the m-speed status down effect from Enfeeblement to combine with the 80% a-speed down effect for Freezing Assault, so it will have [80% a-speed down] [50% m-speed down] @ 100% success rate with 1100 reliable weapon attack. And for Enfeeblement, I would change the format exactly the same as Mental Storm, Distance 15m, Area of Effect 11m, [40% dodge down], have to make it high otherwise it's pointless when you have mystic knife @ [20% dodge down]

This might make Dual Swords better than Katar in a PvP, but it's fair u have to pick either excelling at PvP (dual) or War (katar). I don't play a raider much, so I don't have the rights to speak for the whole raider class, but at least Dual Swords Raider needs a buff.
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#13 Viceking

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 03:21 PM

ya im dual raider forever since 2005,reason because the skill are awesome efect,coolest i dont care what the other people saying he not only for farm he can kill much in pvp 1v1

Edited by Viceking, 17 January 2011 - 03:22 PM.

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#14 Sathanas

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 04:01 PM

Shorter cooldown..sperate cooldown...AND SOME FREAKING ATK SPEED PLEASE! D:
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#15 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:10 PM

dual raider can surely kill in PVP
but getting accuracy is such an easy counter to them

since the last few month while stating raiders most people never considered it could be a dual...all referring to katar
they all mass complained about the burn-sleep and got the skills balanced
fine it got KATARS balanced
but since duals had only 1 burn..which is almost immposible to get with knives...
they were never the benefactors of the BURN-sleep combo
nerfing their skills brought them from some what balanced to nerfed

since not many play DUALs...and most change from duals to katar at MAX lvls....no1 complained !!!!

my first character was a dual raider and dual have always been my favourite class to play
but their inferiority to other classes it too straight forward

i dunno how many will critisize the above statement
but once any character gets a good enuf accuracy duals FAIL


i made a stat/skill comaprison and here is what i got

dual raider passives give - 150% ap passive for 54 sps
mage passive - 160% ap for 36 sps + 40% acc
bourg- 140% ap + 60% acc for 36 sps
champ - 215% AP for 54 pts + 40% selected stat
katar-130% ap +50% ASPD for 54 sps
cleric- 150% ap + magic tool block rate - 200% + accuracy -30% + magic tool defence 40% for 64 sps
scout-140% ap for 36 sps
knight- 140% ap + 24% acc for 36 sps

i guess i have summed up all of them and from the above reading even a-_- can tell that dual raiders have been discriminated over their passive skills

the above stats clealry show how how dual raider is the most inferior class when it comes to DPS
to add to the fact raider have maximum number of USELESS PREQS (other than cleric) never used by them like - focused impact,quick style assualt
and below par skills
(freezing assault their best skill has lost its effectiveness after ASPD fell out)
enfeeblement is belittled by the other MSPD down debuffs gotten mages , champs,knights,scouts which do damage as well
AOE - dont me me LOL on it...even gun dealers AOE is better (if not knights -which is too useless)
knives - also one of their best skills that got nerfed
Stun and burn- these skills have kept duals going till now.....but I HATE combo slash and double slash which put 18 sps into the drain
precision assualt-no other class has to seperately but sps to get acc
bloody assualt - again one of my liked skills but champs who have a similar and a bit better skills never get it LOL
mental storm-excellent AOE tanking skill which recently got nerfed for no imminent reason
ASPD buffs from common tree-they give pathetic ASPD gain for all those 19 sps...i luv clerics better
after all this sadness i wud like to end it on a better note
that quick reflexes,rapid twitch,mirror phantasm,evasive gaurd are absolutely wonderful
but my question is

ARE THEY GONNA BE ENUF ???????
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#16 Phish

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 08:46 PM

Some of those character comparisons are a bit off, but anyway.




I think the long cooldowns on many dual skills hinder them. It doesn't make sense for skills that have a status effect and don't do damage to have longer cooldowns than skills with status effects that do deal damage (this applies to any class with these skills). Three dual raider skills are non damage dealing debuffs, enfeeblement is probably the least useful of all. Also their signature buff evasive guard puts them in a bad position when it wears out.

Seriously I think if evasive guard was changed to 7 minute duration (with no other changes) it would help them alot.
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#17 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:32 AM


the AP stats are 100% REAL (confirmed from compendium along with changes in spear passive that they havent mentioned)

others...sure are a bit exaggerated..all classes do have some bad skills
but duals do have too many...if not clerics






Seriously I think if evasive guard was changed to 7 minute duration (with no other changes) it would help them alot.




cant disagree at all
+1
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#18 Kirara

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 02:27 AM

and it is true that Duel Wields are weaker i do agree to make cloak available to both raider classes :x


because i think raiders should be able to sneak up on people weather they are Duel Or Katar, this is just my opinion because even if they had it i think almost all classes have a skill to be able to see them (not 100% on that)

i know i prefer duel just for the AOE because it made it easier to train at a lower level, and it can really save you in mob situations.

and the beast can be helpful at times too, but has anyone noticed? it kinda looks... uh.. Drugged?
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#19 Phish

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 04:07 AM


the AP stats are 100% REAL (confirmed from compendium along with changes in spear passive that they havent mentioned)


Katar has 120%, Mage has 240%, cleric has 170%, crossbow knight has 120%.
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#20 Blitzkrieg

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 04:25 AM

THANX FOR CORRECTING........Posted Image
i must have missed something
or comependium info is not 100% true
or then again i was in too much hurry....Posted Image

thanx again...i dont think it changes much still .......other than the crossbow
but SP requirements reduce at the same time - i thot soldier tree 20% + 70 +70 passive.....must have miscalculated
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