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Request to ban dual clienting


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#26 1756492860

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 12:14 AM

honestly don't understand why a certain p server can handle the dual/multiclienting issue better than an actual company with a license to operate an official server.

 

here's kinda how it works over there:

- strictly one master account per user

- you may have any number of game accounts under your master account

- exp penalty for party with 2+ chars from the same master account on the same map

 

i understand this is impossible to do for a decades-old server like chaos; you simply can't implement something like this when people have made multiple wp accounts over the years without this rule in place. but shouldn't be an issue for a newish? server like transcendence

 

sooo based off of the above, here's my suggestion for iRO transcendence or whatever new server they come up with next

 

- discourage multi-clienting by imposing an exp penalty, or maybe wp can also do exp+drop penalty

- have a stricter implementation by imposing penalties whenever 2+ characters from the same master acc are online regardless of where they are in the game

- make it even stricter by making penalties expire x mins after the last alt char has logged off

- limit woe maps to strictly one char per master account only

- if you guys want absolutely no dual clienting even for potting, trading gears to other acc, etc. then simply implement a "one online character per master account at any given time" rule - lots of ppl would ragequit over this tho lol

 

obviously workarounds still exist. vpns/proxies, vms, having more than one pc, etc and of course it would be up to WP's highly competent staff to catch and penalize those who try to get around the system (LMFAO) ... but at the very least this should encourage playing with other people to some degree. and "multi-clienting" would be much less convenient, requiring people to do more than moving their cursor to their second display or alt-tabbing to their other RO window.

 

the biggest question is... does wp even have the capability to implement something like this?? lol... we can talk -_- about p servers all day long, i'd rather support officials as well, i'd happily dump $$$$$ on a well-managed official server. but i really can't fathom why a "no cash shop, no donations" p server is managed waaay better than official servers :(


Edited by 1756492860, 25 March 2020 - 12:26 AM.

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#27 5584171015142815377

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 04:17 AM

Multi client ... wait until we get NOGH and most vets probably wont even play with other people. They will probably solo and bring 11 or 12 alts with them ... then get bored of this online chores and request a new content  :heh:  :heh:  :heh:

 

this is just a fundamental problem with renewal design. not a multi client problem. If multi clienting to that extent is the most efficient way the game has been designed poorly. which it has in renewal. The damage numbers you can pump out on a solo class now are absurd. They even removed the need for bragi to spam spells. you are a solo spell spamming god now who can pump out unreal numbers of damage.

 

you seriously pump out so much damage in renewal that any mvp/hard mob that has the potential to be interesting just gets melted before any of its mechanics can kick in. 


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#28 Vladdin

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 05:47 AM

For me, the dual-client feature doesn't really destroy anyone's gaming.

People play how they want to and I do respect it at that case.

If your point is that there's not much team-work going on in this server, it's just because most people want to play on their own?

I would suggest tho that you invite your friends to play, and play according to your terms.

I do know guilds that offer team-play gaming by hosting party for instances.

Not everyone has the time to find a party in the first place.

If you can manage to inject a huge amount of recruiters in-game, then you might be able to turn the tables to your favor.


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#29 JillOfTrades

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 06:04 AM

Updated first post with reasonable arguments against this.


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#30 Vladdin

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 06:17 AM

Priests are always needed for anything even at the dead WOE we have they're still needed.

Please don't think it's the 'end game' for you.

My PC can't really accommodate too much clients at the same time, so I never did this dual-client feature unless I'm transferring Zeny.

(LOL to RODEX tax win-win)


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#31 Aruteeru

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:04 AM

I don't feel that there is enough players on this game anymore to have an active enough community to not have dual clienting. (RoT)

 

A big party problem right now is people won't take certain classes because they are deemed "useless" to their party for these dumb kill groups, and there are very minimal magma/geff parties to even join, and even then they usually only want pullers, because they have everything else.

I had to leech my own character because getting into a party was such a pain in the ass, there is no point in wasting my time trying to join any of them anymore.

 

Besides, leveling, and MvPing people don't really party anyways. Until Bio Labs, most likely.

 

There are lots of other things people already posted about the goods.

 

I'm sure there is more I'd like to say, but I can't think of them right now.


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#32 Vladdin

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:10 AM

A big party problem right now is people won't take certain classes because they are deemed "useless" to their party for these dumb kill groups, and there are very minimal magma/geff parties to even join, and even then they usually only want pullers, because they have everything else.

 

This fact actually got me to know how to play my character.

I've just heard some spoiler news, and the owner of this post might like it.

Nightmare Old Glast Heim instance might not be solo'able, so better hope for it's upcoming implementation.

Cheer up, we can't really solo everything.


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#33 LordKratos

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:15 AM

Stupid idea for a niche population MMO - recruit another 10k~20k  players and I would think about this as a suggestion. I only play one client anyways but I don't see how reducing players to single client/box playing will "help" the game. All I see from OP is a lot of complaining without any real thought or substance to the complaint. You make points that only cater to your point of view without considering the impact as a whole to the game. Not only would this make the economy spiral out of control but it would also push those who are on the fence about staying away from the game, which in turn just makes things even worse in many aspects. You are not going to change the meta of parties or will you change the way people think on who they recruit for parties, so people will always need other methods to level these types of characters. Do I like the current meta of parties, not one bit. Unless we magically revert back a decade in RO - this suggestion will NEVER work.


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#34 ShekelShark

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:33 AM

Beings warpportal is doing NOTHING to get more players to join the game, banning dual clienting would be a dumb move on their part because a lot of people would just quit, people quitting equals loss of potential revenue, and that is something they will not risk beings they are living on bread crumbs atm, they should however ban all the accounts keeping track of mvps / mini boss's,as it gives a unfair advantage.

 

you_know_nothing_of_the_world.jpg


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#35 Delsavior

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:36 AM

Dual clienting basically says you're anti social in a social game lol.

Personal opinion, I'd never do it, so far haven't had any issues raising up any of my characters.

Yes I am an adult, and yes I have limited time.

This is a fresh RO server with nearly no real reason to Rush anything.

Want to grind something for hours? Find a guild and make a friend.

Better yet, make some friends in general, help each other out.

It's not rocket science, just too many people playing this game with the wrong mindset.

 

 

 

Personally, my only issue is having no safe way to then transfer zeny and items between accounts/characters.

 

As for another more common reason, certain instances require you to have at least two people online to enter (for example, Endless Tower). That would also be a bit annoying.

 

The Mail system exists :) It's how I've dealt with things so far and has not had any problems yet.


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#36 bearl

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:38 AM

Stupid idea for a niche population MMO - recruit another 10k~20k  players and I would think about this as a suggestion. I only play one client anyways but I don't see how reducing players to single client/box playing will "help" the game. All I see from OP is a lot of complaining without any real thought or substance to the complaint. You make points that only cater to your point of view without considering the impact as a whole to the game. Not only would this make the economy spiral out of control but it would also push those who are on the fence about staying away from the game, which in turn just makes things even worse in many aspects. You are not going to change the meta of parties or will you change the way people think on who they recruit for parties, so people will always need other methods to level these types of characters. Do I like the current meta of parties, not one bit. Unless we magically revert back a decade in RO - this suggestion will NEVER work.

 

give you a like. :no1:

 

coronavirus is contagious

s         is even more contagious


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#37 ChakriGuard

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 08:24 AM

this is just a fundamental problem with renewal design. not a multi client problem. If multi clienting to that extent is the most efficient way the game has been designed poorly. which it has in renewal. The damage numbers you can pump out on a solo class now are absurd. They even removed the need for bragi to spam spells. you are a solo spell spamming god now who can pump out unreal numbers of damage.

you seriously pump out so much damage in renewal that any mvp/hard mob that has the potential to be interesting just gets melted before any of its mechanics can kick in.


I've seen some RoT MvP videos. All it takes is just trap kite or bash. Only few skills, just like Renewal. The only difference is, in Renewal, players use few hotkeys and MvPs die so quickly. Where as, in Classic, players also use few hotkeys but MvPs die so less quickly.

Any godly armed players from Renewal and Classic can melt MvPs pretty fast, in their own respective server. For example in Trans, the guy can just solo MvP, if not, then just bring one priest and that's it. He doesnt need a party. All he needs is his alts to play dead, so he knows where to find the MvP quick. Dossnt really matters if Renewal or Classic, strong players play alone with their alts because it's the most profitable way and it's done through exploitable multi client.

I dont play other servers than iRO but as far as I am aware, most successful private servers discourage multi client. JRO doesnt support multi client either.

Edited by ChakriGuard, 25 March 2020 - 08:32 AM.

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#38 ChakriGuard

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 08:30 AM

I don't feel that there is enough players on this game anymore to have an active enough community to not have dual clienting. (RoT)


You ain't wrong. In the end, after this debate, WP will not do anything. Multi client will still be here. iRO is like a 3rd world country. Too spoiled or rotten to enforce laws to move the server forward because if they enforce new laws, it will collapse the whole system.

The most recent example is when WP banned basic bots in Chaos and ragial got involved. Many people were so upset or even quit. Some are still upset. That's because they relied too much on bots and using bots was part of their comfort zone. So by removing ragial, which was supposed to be a good thing, it actually backfired and gave negative results.
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#39 ElenaGilbert

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 08:33 AM

lol most successful pserver has all multiclients, and the ones that dont doesnt even last more than 3months. theres only 1 server thats still running that discourage multiclient but its not disabled because you can still multi client but will have exp penalty. a strong solo players also doesnt need to dual client either to do mvps quick. the reason WHY they used it, its because its accessible. 

 

seriously the strong players will still stay strong even when they take multiclient out because they are good players for a reason


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#40 5584171015142815377

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 08:33 AM

I've seen some RoT MvP videos. All it takes is just trap kite or bash. Only few skills, just like Renewal. The only difference is, in Renewal, players use few hotkeys and MvPs die so quickly. Where as, in Classic, players also use few hotkeys but MvPs die so less quickly.

Any godly armed players from Renewal and Classic can melt MvPs pretty fast, in their own respective server. For example in Trans, the guy can just solo MvP, if not, then just bring one priest and that's it. He doesnt need a party. All he needs is his alts to play dead, so he knows where to find the MvP quick. Dossnt really matters if Renewal or Classic, strong players play alone with their alts because it's the most profitable way and it's done through exploitable multi client.

I dont play other server than iRO but as far as I am aware, most successful private servers discourage multi client. JRO doesnt support multi client either.

bruh we are like super early in the progression time line. we don't even have einbroch or any remotely difficult content. 

When Bio labs comes we won't be one shotting them with 23million damage cross impact from GX. That's for sure. you need a party at harder content like thanatos, bio labs 3, and abbey 3. 


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#41 ElenaGilbert

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 08:38 AM

bruh we are like super early in the progression time line. we don't even have einbroch or any remotely difficult content. 

When Bio labs comes we won't be one shotting them with 23million damage cross impact from GX. That's for sure. you need a party at harder content like thanatos, bio labs 3, and abbey 3. 

 

 

haha this is on point. even right now theres still 1 mvp that many people struggle to kill and thats stormy knight. i only theres prolly 5people total that knows how to kill that mvp. its funny everytime i see people attempt to kill it and just give up after 3hours of trying


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#42 DDQuidam

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 12:35 PM

Imagine being so self-righteous to tell other ppl how they should play a MMORPG


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#43 MegaEdge

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 06:53 PM

To ban dual client, what year are we? 2004?!  <_<


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#44 Nirvanna21

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 07:04 PM

The Mail system exists :) It's how I've dealt with things so far and has not had any problems yet.

 

That's lucky, transferring zeny through the mail system comes at a price, which can add up if you send a HUGE amount to other characters. But I could deal with that, however there is one MAJOR issue. RODEX has been known to sometimes goof, and the goods contained inside vanish and are from what I heard from friends who played, are unable to get back.

 

It's why when a friend lent me his LK card on the regular, we stopped RODEXing his sunnies (because god knows how we would have felt if that vanished and was unable to be returned).


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#45 folkvangr

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 09:18 PM

having ability to be both is better, removing the option is downgrade tbh
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#46 VModCinnamon

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Posted 25 March 2020 - 09:34 PM

Friendly reminder:
 

Greetings,

While the subject is highly sensitive, I'd ask users who wish to engage to respond in the most appropriate manner. If you however, chose to insult, call out and bait into drama your posting account will be suspended without notice. Couple of posts had to be edited and removed already, so let it to be the last.

 

If you don't like someone's comment, then please again engage appropriately. If you attack the person instead then I'd have no choice :(


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#47 JadedCynic

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 02:21 AM

Economy Reason:
Lately I've been seeing a lot of characters camping on certain maps (looking at you Poring Island and Dragonfly map) with a timer they only know. Because of them camping in multiple spots on each map, this makes it easy for them to find the boss and kill it, and get that rare item. If that keeps happening and they control that map, they basically control the economy of that item. (I.E. Clip, Evil Wings, Etc.). Doing away with dual clienting will make the economy better on those certain items and prevent the control of the market.

Might I suggest that you're greatly overestimating the importance of common items? Neither of the two examples you listed are worth the trouble of camping the map for, let alone dedicating a character to camp the map with. And for the bosses that are truly worth camping, there are MVP tombstones. If anyone wants to spend their time camping for a clip or evil wing, let their diligence be rewarded. The number of items in the game is finite, and competition is part of the game. If I ever need such items, I will gladly pay them the fair market price.
 

Discouraging Classes:
We all seen this with other legitimate players. Someone will be playing two characters at once: Their Crusader and their Priest. Not only this discourages people and players for creating a Full Support class (yes I'm including Sage and future Soul Linkers here), but this gives more power to the person dual clienting. Some people do not have the specs or power in order to play two characters at once on their computer, plus it makes it pointless in creating a support class.

I'm not buying the computer argument. The game is two decades old, and not enough players have the supercomputer they need to run 2 clients? The game only requires 128 MB of RAM and a 400 MHz processor to run.

If you've tried dual clienting, you probably see how annoying it is to drag around a second character with auto follow. Having a priest doing buffs every time you go into town is a lot different than running a tough instance with a full support partner. If all the hypothetical priest can do is buff every 10 minutes, why would anyone bother bringing them along to split loots with?
 

Less Bots:
I'm pretty sure majority of us will agree on this. This will help lessen the bots on the server by a good amount (at least eliminating a third of them if any). Bots use multiple clients and programs on the same computer in order to maximize their input and output in earning money. While EAC helps out for half of the part, banning dual clienting will help as well.

I don't like bots any more than you do, but banning multiclienting is about as effective as using dead branches to kill bots entering pay_fild08. Such radical measures hurt legitimate players far more than they hurt bots. You've presented zero evidence to show that IP restrictions would reduce the number of bots, let alone eliminate a third of them.

But look at the consequences of the method you proposed to block multiclienting. A botter can run 10 different proxies, each with a different character, thus getting around your method. They aren't bothered by an IP restriction. The rest of us, on the other hand, wouldn't even be allowed to transfer items between our own characters via a trade window.
 

Arguments against this:
I am aware there would be some arguments. Some people like to play solo or afraid they cannot find a FS class to help and party with.

Spoiler
While there are some downsides for you, please think of the benefits that banning this could bring.
 

What benefit exactly? Nobody's stopping you from playing a FS priest. There are plenty of downsides all right, but I'm not seeing the supposed benefit. Whether or not dual clienting is banned, you can play any class you want to. What exactly is the problem?
 

So how would we ban dual clienting?

So far the only easy way I can see this is preventing the IP address connecting more than once on the server. When you try to connect twice, it will be like "Server recongnizes you're logged in," but in IP address.

Limiting each IP address to one account would hurt legitimate players while doing very little to stop bots. Bots can just use an army of proxies to run each character with a different IP. Human players, on the other hand, would be forced to use Rodex or ask a friend for help for something as simple as transferring items. Your proposed "cure" is far worse than the supposed problem.

 

 

 


More recently, there have been reports of players leaving multiple dead novices scattered across a map to scout for boss and rare spawns with little effort.


Is this really a serious problem? If someone is willing to go to the trouble of making 20 different accounts with novices scattered at exactly the right position on the map, logging into all 20 novices, and then switching between each window just to figure out which novice has a boss in its window, should we not just leave them to their pain? All this assumes 20 novices are even enough to cover the whole map. For larger maps, 20 wouldn't be enough to cover every square.

If on the other hand the novices are run by bots, then the real problem is not multiclienting, but botting. Botting is already forbidden. Our time would be better spent figuring out how to really stop bots rather than attacking multiclienting.

 

Dual clienting basically says you're anti social in a social game lol.
Personal opinion, I'd never do it, so far haven't had any issues raising up any of my characters.
Yes I am an adult, and yes I have limited time.
This is a fresh RO server with nearly no real reason to Rush anything.
Want to grind something for hours? Find a guild and make a friend.
Better yet, make some friends in general, help each other out.
It's not rocket science, just too many people playing this game with the wrong mindset.


I disagree with stigmatizing so many players by labeling their mindset as "wrong". Multiclienting people aren't hurting anyone else by doing what they do. Opening a second window is about as wrong as choosing to play a sniper over a lord knight. There's nothing right or wrong about it.

I would argue that if someone were truly "anti social", banning multiclienting would be unlikely to cause them to change their personality overnight. Would their gameplay be hurt by forcing them to stick to one character? Sure. They might not be able to access certain game content. But how many truly social people interact with others by necessity? At least some will be social because being social makes them happy. I don't think a game can force someone to become a different person; nor should it.

 

People playing solo aren't hurting the server. They are even helping the server by contributing to the market, maybe spending on the cash shop, and helping attract more players to the game. We are always better off adding a solo player than not having that player at all. If people want to start partying and interacting, awesome. But we shouldn't punish them for not fitting some arbitrary mold for how an ideal player should act in the game.

If anything, multiclienting makes us more social by making our interactions more meaningful. Why would I drag along a friend to be a buff slave when I can spend the time teaming up with them to take down a tough boss instead? Multiclienting can save the limited time that friend has, letting them engage in more meaningful and "social" activities.

Tbh, I think the whole argument about being anti social is moot anyways. Inviting someone in a game to a party is a lot different from going outside and physically meeting people. Just because I don't mind exchanging some text messages with strangers doesn't necessarily make me superior to or more social than someone who doesn't feel like doing the same.

 


Edited by JadedCynic, 26 March 2020 - 03:50 AM.

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#48 MegaEdge

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 04:20 AM

Oh and I don't think you know anything about botting, client mods and such because from what I remember back then...

 

1.) Bots used to by pass the number of client allowed (1).

2.) There was some modified clients that let you multi-clients (and see the damage you do in WoE).

3.) If you ban the use of multi-client people will find another way to exploit and go around it.

 

It will be quicker and wiser to ban any form of botting, period. 


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#49 Chorvaqueen

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 10:09 AM

weren't these the main reasons multiclienting was allowed a long time ago?

 

1.) to discourage using hacked/modded clients to enable dual/multiclient or using bots to log in an alt

2.) to reduce cases of transfer scams


Edited by Chorvaqueen, 26 March 2020 - 10:10 AM.

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#50 TattooedChef

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Posted 26 March 2020 - 11:40 AM

I know this has bought up a million times and probably the most recent suggestion, but I want you to hear me out on my opinion on the benefits of banning dual clienting.
 
Dual clienting is a problem for many reasons, and I'll list why:
 
Economy Reason:
Lately I've been seeing a lot of characters camping on certain maps (looking at you Poring Island and Dragonfly map) with a timer they only know. Because of them camping in multiple spots on each map, this makes it easy for them to find the boss and kill it, and get that rare item. If that keeps happening and they control that map, they basically control the economy of that item. (I.E. Clip, Evil Wings, Etc.). Doing away with dual clienting will make the economy better on those certain items and prevent the control of the market.
 
Discouraging Classes:
We all seen this with other legitimate players. Someone will be playing two characters at once: Their Crusader and their Priest. Not only this discourages people and players for creating a Full Support class (yes I'm including Sage and future Soul Linkers here), but this gives more power to the person dual clienting. Some people do not have the specs or power in order to play two characters at once on their computer, plus it makes it pointless in creating a support class.
 
Less Bots:
I'm pretty sure majority of us will agree on this. This will help lessen the bots on the server by a good amount (at least eliminating a third of them if any). Bots use multiple clients and programs on the same computer in order to maximize their input and output in earning money. While EAC helps out for half of the part, banning dual clienting will help as well.
 
Arguments against this:
I am aware there would be some arguments. Some people like to play solo or afraid they cannot find a FS class to help and party with.

Spoiler
While there are some downsides for you, please think of the benefits that banning this could bring.
 
EDIT 3/25:
A lot of people actually had good arguments against this! I'll list the following and link accordingly.
1. Finding a support/offense class to help grind and farm items for hours.Chances are, people won't find people that stay that long.Post
2. Most people don't have that much time on their hands and want to get the most out of their game. Post
3. Some instances require more than one person to enter. This may be difficult when finding the right person.Post
 
So how would we ban dual clienting?
 
So far the only easy way I can see this is preventing the IP address connecting more than once on the server. When you try to connect twice, it will be like "Server recongnizes you're logged in," but in IP address.
 
TL;DR Banning Dual Clienting brings the following benefits:
-Help the economy by preventing people controlling the market for certain items.
-Encourages new players and other players to play different classes, mainly full support.
-Less bots. Do you remember liking more bots on this server? Yeah. I don't either.

 

 

 

Simplest solution is if you don't like it don't do it. Problem solved... 


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