3 replies to this topic

[taiken]

Hello everyone,

 

Answer: Crit damage modifiers apply directly to ATK before going through DEF reductions. Then, after DEF reductions you apply the 1.4 base crit modifier.

 

TL;DR The critical damage modifiers apparently don't apply as easily as 1.4 x Crit Dmg Modifier. Below is my analysis of it. Feel free to point out and correct any mistakes I made.

 

So, I have been reading what I could find on damage calculation (including this, this and this, all very good sources of information). And after doing the math and testing ingame I'm fairly confident that I understand how to apply almost all modifiers and get the same results on paper vs ingame. However, there's this one modifier that eludes my understanding, and it should be one of the easiest to understand and apply correctly, I'm talking about the Critical Damage Modifier.

 

According to every source I could find, after you've done the ATK calculation and applied the DEF reduction, you should multiply the resulting attack damage by (1.4 x Crit Dmg Modifiers). So far easy enough... right?

 

Let's see an example:

 

My stats:

Level 175

Str: 116

Agi: 117

Vit: 98

Int: 7

Dex: 48

Luk:122

 

No equipment

 

As I have no equipment in this first exercise all we have to do is calculate the StatusATK as follows:

 

StatusATK = floor[(BaseLevel ÷ 4) + Str + (Dex ÷ 5) + (Luk ÷ 3)]

 

Using my level and stats above I get 210 (below on the screenshot you can see it right next to "Atk"). FYI the left part of the Atk on the Status window is the StatusATK and the right part is the rest of the ATK (Weapon, Equipment, Mastery, Buffs).

 

Now, to calculate the final damage we use the following formula:

 

(StatusATK × 2) + WeaponATK + ExtraATK + MasteryATK + BuffATK

 

Because we are without buff and no equipment we just need the StatusATK part. Doing this we get that our final attack value is 420.

 

Now to test this we need to attack something. I chose a Roween that has 73 HardDEF and 75 SoftDEF.

 

To get the auto attack damage we need to calculate the reduction modifier with this:

 

Damage × [(4000 + HardDEF) ÷ (4000 + HardDEF × 10)]

 

That gives us a multiplier of 86.11%. Now the final auto attack damage should be 420 x 0.8611 - 75, all that rounded down. The final result is 286.

 

And for the critical damage we just multiply that by 1.4 and get, rounding down, 400.

 

So far everything works as intended. Here's a screenshot:

 

Spoiler

 

Now let's introduce some variance, but keeping it simple by not adding overupgrades. We will use an unrefined Gladius... why? Because I had one on my storage.

 

A Gladius is a Level 3 dagger with an attack of 105. Against a Roween it has a SizePenaltyMultiplier of 75%.

 

We already have the StatusATK (we haven't changed stats nor we have equipped anything that adds or substract any). For the WeaponATK we use this:

 

WeaponATK = floor[((BaseWeaponDamage + Variance + StatBonus + RefinementBonus + OverUpgradeBonus) × SizePenaltyMultiplier]

 

You can check each part's formula on the wiki if you like, the results are as follows:

 

BaseWeaponDamage = 105

Variance = ± 15.75

StatBonus = 60.9

RefinementBonus = 0

OverupgradeBonus = 0

SIzePenaltyMultiplier = 75% or 0.75

 

So our weapon attack would be between 112 and 135 (this is due to the variance). And our final attack value would be between 532 and 555.

 

Applying the DEF reductions of a Roween we get an auto attack damage between 383 and 402. For the critical damage you have to take into consideration that critical attacks use the maximum weapon variance (when using refined and overupgraded weapons this changes but that's out of the scope of this analysis). So for the critical damage of our auto attack we just multiply 402 by 1.4 to get, rounding down, 562.

 

Let's see it ingame:

 

Spoiler

 

As you can see above, the autos were in the range we estimated, 383 to 402, and the criticals were all 562.

 

So far we have seen that the formulas in the wiki work well and that the base critical damage modifier is indeed 1.4.

 

Now the fun begins. Let's start small. We will use a Heart Card in Mouth. This item will give us "Increased critical damage on targets by 5%". The rest of the bonus will not apply as we will not be using the Gambler's Seal

 

Because there's no increase in attack all of the above calculations stay the same until we need to apply the critical damage effect.

 

So we start with auto attacks in the range of 383 to 402. Then we apply the critical formula to the max value and we should get floor[402 x 1.4 x 1.05] = 590.

 

Spoiler

 

Hmmm... we were off by 6. You could say it's just 6, there must be a rounding issue, right? Let's see something: 596/402 gives us 1.48. And 1.48/1.4 is 1.059. So instead of 5% our criticals were increased by 5.9%, that's an 18% increase over the stated value. But at the end it was only 6 more damage out of 590, so what's the big deal? Ok, granted, that's just peanuts. Let us check for a higher multiplier, we will add an Assaulter card to the Gladius.

 

Assaulter card "Increases critical attack damage by 10%". So being that it's the same effect we should multiply the 1.4 by 1.15 (5 from the Heart Card in Mouth and 10 from the Assaulter card).

 

The critical damage now should be floor[402 x 1.4 x 1.15] = 647. Ok, now let's go find a Roween to test it out.

 

Spoiler

 

Oh, by the way, ignore the 796, that's just double attack. So we now got a critical of 663 vs our calculated 647. But as you can see in the General Message Window, the auto attack damages remain at max 402 (I stayed there a long time making sure there wasn't a higher number). Now we have a difference of 16 in total damage, but when we look at the critical damage modifier the difference is higher it is now 17.8% vs 15%, that's an 18.7% increase.

 

Oh, before we continue. You could argue that because the effects reads a little different you should add but multiply the modifiers. If we did that, instead of 1.15 we should have used 1.155, still a lower number than what we actually got.

 

Now let's kick it up a notch. We will now use a +9 Fallen Angel Wings of Death Blow (Petal Card) with Fatal 3/3/4 enchants.

 

First we get 5 more Atk points due to the the 108 Str and the FAW bonus. That gives us a max auto attack damage of 407.

 

We now must calculate the critical damage modifier:

 

FAW = 6%

Fatal 3 = 8% (x2)

Fatal 4 = 10%

Petal card = 24%

 

Total = 56%

 

Adding that to our previous 15% we get 71%. So we should get a critical attack of floor[407 x 1.4 x 1.71] = 974.

 

Spoiler

 

Now we got 1048 instead of our calculated 974. That's an almost 8% difference in total damage now. And the increase on the multiplier this time around was 18.2%. The weird part here is that the difference didn't increased but was slightly reduced.

 

Let's check with more critical damage modifiers. Let's introduce the Gambler's Seal. With the set and 120 or more Luk you get a total of 38% more critical damage. You also get an additional 24 ATK from having 120 Luk.

 

So now our max auto attack damage should be 427 and our critical 1249.

 

Spoiler

 

Now we have 1365 instead of 1249, over 9% difference this time. But when we look at the multiplier we now have a 17.7% difference.

 

Interestingly all the modifier totals have been off by a factor of around 18%. But that only happened when we introduced modifiers. When we had criticals without modifiers the factor was exactly 1.4

 

So now I would like to try that 18% hypothesis.

 

Unfortunately I don't have more critical gear that would add critical damage without replace the ones I've used. But we could try to use some other combination of the equipment we already used. Let's give that a try.

 

Let's start with something very simple. Let's just use the Heart Card in Mouth without anything else. We know the auto attack damage should be 286. So, applying the 18% increase on the 5% bonus of the HCiM we should get floor[286 x 1.4 x (1 + (0.05 x 1.18)] = 424.

 

Spoiler

 

That was pretty close, just 1 hit point away. Maybe rounding errors? No... unfortunately this next example throws the 18% hypothesis away.

 

Let's now use the HCiM and the FAW without anything else. Remeber FAW adds 5 atk, so the auto attacks should now be 290. And with the additional 56% critical damage we have a total of 61%. Using the 18% factor we now have around 72% critical damage multiplier. That would give us 698. Did we get it right?

 

Spoiler

 

Aaaaaand it's gone. Now we have a critical of 718. Comparing it with the formula from the wiki we have that this time the factor modifying the critical damage has an increment over the stated values of the items of over 25% (718/290 = 2.476, 2.476/1.4 = 1.768, 1.768 - 1 = 0.768 or 76.8% instead of the 61%).

 

At the end of the day I came here because I have no clue of what's happening with the critical damage modifiers. Maybe I did something wrong when rounding or I completely misunderstood how to apply the modifiers, or whatever. If anyone here knows what's up please point it out. Don't be afraid of speaking your mind, even if it's something as stupid as a magical 18% factor

 

Oh, if you were wondering, all of this is because I'm working on a spreadsheet for damage calculation. I've worked with the other modifiers and they apply as expected, it's just this one that keeps bugging me.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by taiken, 21 April 2020 - 08:00 AM.

[Ashuckel]

Crirical damage is applied to your atk.

the Base Crit multiplier (the x1.4 part) is separate and the last thing you do.

https://irowiki.org/wiki/Attacks

Edited by Ashuckel, 20 April 2020 - 03:35 PM.

[Nirvanna21]

I won't go into full detail of ATK, but here is how a typical regular attack works when performing a critical strike.

// Critical
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(Parameters['ATK'] x Parameters['CriticalMultiplier']);
// if using a ranged weapon or a summoner's stave then add ranged damage Multiplierpliers to the calculation
if(RangedWeapon(WeaponType) || WeaponType == 18)
{
	SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['RangedMultiplier']);
	SkillDamageMaxCritical = Parameters['RangedDamageReduction'] < 1 ? Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['RangedDamageReduction']) : SkillDamageMaxCritical;
}
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['AdditionalSkillDamage']);
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['HardDefReduction']);
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical - Parameters['SoftDef']);
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['BaseCriticalMultiplier']);
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['TotalDamageMultiplier']);
SkillDamageMaxCritical = Floor(SkillDamageMaxCritical x Parameters['TotalDamageReduction']);
SkillDamageMaxCritical = PreventNegativeDamage(SkillDamageMaxCritical);

Edited by Nirvanna21, 20 April 2020 - 04:07 PM.

[taiken]

Oh wow. So, in short, I always understood wrong the application of the bonus crit multiplier.

 

In conclusion, the bonus crit multipliers goes before DEF and, as you say, is separate from the base critical multiplier of 1.4.

 

I just checked and now the values I calculate are the same as the ones shown ingame.

 

Thank you very much both for your answers. I will sleep well tonight