16 replies to this topic

[kuhrama]

I'm gonna summarize it the best way I can. I'm creating a Shield Boom + Grand Cross Crusader and I came across something. We have a bunch of Grand Cross Royal Guards in bRO due to some equipment that boost it to 400%+ and all, so, we have an extensive research on the skill and how it works.

basically we "found out" through testing that the skill in renewal is:

affected by card modifiers of Size, Race, Property, ATK, MATK (raw numbers or percentages)
affected by long ranged modifiers (like Archer Skeleton or Alligator)
affected by Abysmal Knight

main brazilian source: https://browiki.org/wiki/Crux_Magnum
(there are dozens of videos on youtube testing this)

Apparently, thRO has also found the same:
image 1
 

http://violet-harmon...ss-renewal.html

and here in iRO too:

https://forums.warpp...ss#entry2079677

So this is all well documented and well known. My point here is that I have a +7 tsurugi [+56 atk option] with two archer skeleton cards (I tested it and it works fine) and I also have this weapon that I created specifically for demons.
+7 Tsurugi [+50 ATK opt 1 ] [Damage to demon +14% opt2] and two Strouf Cards [20% damage to demon each]


It should perform at least 34% better than the other one, considering these are being used on a demon. I found it really surprising that actually they hit almost precisely the same on demons. This tells me that probably the Effect of 14% is working (hitting very close to the 20% provided by the two archer skeleton cards), but the racial damage of the cards is not being considered. I intend to test further with more simple race carded gear, but I can't at the moment since every purchase I make goes to a void in my ROdex and never gets to me, so I'm sharing info here so people can test it if interested.

As there was no nerf on the skill mentioned on rebalance, I believe this might be a bug of some sort. If someone who could answer me that, it'd be amazing.

Thanks

just as extra info, I'm building a Shield Boomerang + Grand Cross crusader, but SB doesn't get any damage percentage or raw atk cards put on a weapon, this weapon is focused mainly on providing GC some extra damage.

 

Edited by kuhrama, 02 May 2020 - 08:33 PM.

[Ashuckel]

Ranged damage modifiers affect all portions of your ATK.

Race/size/element etc don't affect your statusATK and masteryATK

[kuhrama]

Hi!

So, I'm sorry, but I don't feel like I understand what you mean.

Race/size/element and cards like these are known to affect GC renewal, even though they don't affect ATK/ mastery ATK status.

Also, the 14% race modifier in the sword seems to work just fine in GC, the cards don't, though.

Generally in GC builds in bRO, peeps use these Race/Size/Element modifiers (most people use AK in their weapons to fight bosses like Amdarais and all. Also, they use items that increase damage on undead/demon etc, and it does affect the final damage), so I'm a little bit lost when it comes to it not working here in RT since there's no different in update that could've allowed such difference.

If you don't mind, could you express your point further? Is there any different formula used here or any different update that you know of? (I'm assuming you're brazilian as I've seen you before, If not, I'm sorry for the last question)

Edited by kuhrama, 03 May 2020 - 11:10 AM.

[Ashuckel]

If one modifier doesnt affect the same portions of atk as the other one, the results will differ, even at the same ish numbers.

In RT that a good chunk of ppls atk still come from statusATK, it's quite significant of a difference when somethind does or doesnt affect it.

Using easy rough numbers,
If you have a total of 300 stats+mastery atk, and 150 weapon/extra atk, an AS card will give you +10% affecting all portions, so 45 total atk. A racial card giving 20% of the weapon/extra will give you 30 total atk.

Edited by Ashuckel, 03 May 2020 - 07:01 AM.

[kuhrama]

Okay, I think I got it.

Basically, the difference in scale in GC in bRO allows it to use racial cards and give much more damage since 20% the bonuses on weapon atk will be much more valuable than the current equipment of the server. I got it.


So it means that in the following case my crusader should have:

Atk 113 + 221

Archer Skeleton is supposed to give me: 33 ATK as 10% of the sum
Racial card 20% bonus based on the weapon atk value, so it is supposed to give me 44 ATK

If I got two AS, I should be getting around 66 ATK bonus
two racial cards should be giving me 88 ATK bonus
the racial bonus my Tsurugi has on demons (14%)  should give me 30 ATK

So, two AS should give me 66
Two racial cards should give me 88
if i consider the racial bonus on the sword, the racial bonus in total should give me 118 ATK

Following what you said, even if I don't consider the racial bonus the weapon give, the racial cards were supposed to give me more atk than AS.

but this is not happening.

I'm not sure what to do with this. Is it a bug in which the numbers don't meet execution? Is it the monster def shooting down the damage with Racial since AS is calculated later in the damage formula?

I guess I'll try to get 2x AS cards on my +7 Tsurugi with +14% demon damage to test if it works better than with 2x Stroufs

Do you have any recommendation to help me out (please do)?

[Ashuckel]

you are missing:

mastery atk from sword mastery(if you have it)

status atk is doubled during damage calculations (your 113 status atk becomes 226)


pretty sure the ideal weapon for GC at this point in the server would be the highest flat atk possible+ranged damage, and AS cards

Edited by Ashuckel, 03 May 2020 - 12:26 PM.

[dcdsdss]

I'm gonna summarize it the best way I can. I'm creating a Shield Boom + Grand Cross Crusader and I came across something. We have a bunch of Grand Cross Royal Guards in bRO due to some equipment that boost it to 400%+ and all, so, we have an extensive research on the skill and how it works.

basically we "found out" through testing that the skill in renewal is:

affected by card modifiers of Size, Race, Property, ATK, MATK (raw numbers or percentages)
affected by long ranged modifiers (like Archer Skeleton or Alligator)
affected by Abysmal Knight

main brazilian source: https://browiki.org/wiki/Crux_Magnum
(there are dozens of videos on youtube testing this)

Apparently, thRO has also found the same:
image 1


http://violet-harmon...ss-renewal.html

and here in iRO too:

https://forums.warpp...ss#entry2079677

So this is all well documented and well known. My point here is that I have a +7 tsurugi [+56 atk option] with two archer skeleton cards (I tested it and it works fine) and I also have this weapon that I created specifically for demons.
+7 Tsurugi [+50 ATK opt 1 ] [Damage to demon +14% opt2] and two Strouf Cards [20% damage to demon each]


It should perform at least 34% better than the other one, considering these are being used on a demon. I found it really surprising that actually they hit almost precisely the same on demons. This tells me that probably the Effect of 14% is working (hitting very close to the 20% provided by the two archer skeleton cards), but the racial damage of the cards is not being considered. I intend to test further with more simple race carded gear, but I can't at the moment since every purchase I make goes to a void in my ROdex and never gets to me, so I'm sharing info here so people can test it if interested.

As there was no nerf on the skill mentioned on rebalance, I believe this might be a bug of some sort. If someone who could answer me that, it'd be amazing.

Thanks

just as extra info, I'm building a Shield Boomerang + Grand Cross crusader, but SB doesn't get any damage percentage or raw atk cards put on a weapon, this weapon is focused mainly on providing GC some extra damage.

Hey Bro, gald to see someone doing exactly the same thing as I did, I tested the GC damage and did my homework as well, I will share my conclusion.

I almost did exactly same tests like what you did, what you found out about GC damge is correct, the important fact is

The racial% or elemental% coming from card is truly not working, but the racial% or elemental% coming from weapon options is working, so I think you are right about the bugs on the %cards.

AS is working very well, so I think before they fix the bug, AS card is the best. But I also did some caluation on IRO stat smiulation, even if the racial% elemental% is worked, in RT’s weapon, AS will always win a little bit, and you don’t need to prepare different weapon.

However, let’s talk about more, what are you planning to do with GC build? I’m trying to dual priest and solo farm Mamga or gefenia, still planing. Any other good ideals, it is work to make a GC build since the Knight is OP now, looks like what GC and do Knight can do better....

Also, would you like to share Shield Brooming? is this skill good to use? how is the delay of it? does %card work? does AS work? Can I change elemental of attack? or so on

Thank you!

Edited by dcdsdss, 03 May 2020 - 05:04 PM.

[dcdsdss]

you are missing:

mastery atk from sword mastery(if you have it)

status atk is doubled during damage calculations (your 113 status atk becomes 226)


pretty sure the ideal weapon for GC at this point in the server would be the highest flat atk possible+ranged damage, and AS cards

May I ask, do you know if the GC atk part ignore flee? (I only know Matk part will never miss)

[kuhrama]

Hey Bro, gald to see someone doing exactly the same thing as I did, I tested the GC damage and did my homework as well, I will share my conclusion.

I almost did exactly same tests like what you did, what you found out about GC damge is correct, the important fact is

The racial% or elemental% coming from card is truly not working, but the racial% or elemental% coming from weapon options is working, so I think you are right about the bugs on the %cards.

AS is working very well, so I think before they fix the bug, AS card is the best. But I also did some caluation on IRO stat smiulation, even if the racial% elemental% is worked, in RT’s weapon, AS will always win a little bit, and you don’t need to prepare different weapon.

However, let’s talk about more, what are you planning to do with GC build? I’m trying to dual priest and solo farm Mamga or gefenia, still planing. Any other good ideals, it is work to make a GC build since the Knight is OP now, looks like what GC and do Knight can do better....

Also, would you like to share Shield Brooming? is this skill good to use? how is the delay of it? does %card work? does AS work? Can I change elemental of attack? or so on

Thank you!

 

Quite happy here as well that I'm not alone ahaha

You are very much right with AS being better, my friend

I went there and tested it with a + 7 Tsurugi [+51 ATK] [+20% undead] and two AS and it did show some good improvements on damage that did consider the 20% given by the weapon as being relevant. The problem seems to be in the racial cards not being accounted for in the final sum and we should report it (doing that as soon as today's shift ends)

my plans for GC are waiting for undead/demon bosses that might come in instances (hope they actually do come) and farming at Glast Heim Chivalry, but overall it's just a class I like and a build i like, so no big plans for it besides being my main.

(I'm not sure farming at those places you mentioned would be ideal with GC crusader due to costs, prolly Knight would survive better without potions and straws. (I'm talking about farming mostly)

Shield boom is a great skill, Zero to none delay, good damage, but the down side is that it's not affected by anything you put on weapons, basically. No atk cards like andre (porcelio and other cards that don't attach to weapons work), no % damage, no weapon atk, no AS, no change in element. What doest seem to work is basically STR, DEX and LUK atk (mastery doesn't) and shield refine and weight. You can use Tamruan Card (+10% damage on Shield boom).


Thank you for the rapport
 

Edited by kuhrama, 04 May 2020 - 12:28 PM.

[J4ckNapier]

Would GC be ok in WOE? any suggestion for weapon and stats?

[awesomegeek]

I'm new to Grand Cross and based on my recent testing this what I've observed:

It's a magic skill but is based on ATK & MATK.
ATK part is element convertible while MATK is forced Holy.
Using Elemental Weapons such as Holy Crimson does 2x more damage than a non-Holy Crimson on an target with 200% Holy weakness. Other Elements work the same way. (e.g. Wind convert on Malangdo MVP).

 

HP cost penalty is % of your current HP.. when you are in red bar HP, there's barely any HP reduction.

Edited by awesomegeek, 07 May 2020 - 07:02 PM.

[J4ckNapier]

Im playing at RT sever so we don't have crimson weapons

[EdwardEG]

Would GC be ok in WOE? any suggestion for weapon and stats?

Even with the help of AS card into GC, i dont think GC is suitable to be used for WoE. That 20% maxhp remaining reduction is still giving downside that GC saders are very vulnerable when they are frontlining and still they dont perform well in terms of DPS than other DPS classes.

In fact, INT and STR stats in renewal does not help much in contributing damage to atk+matk as compared to stats in classic.

[J4ckNapier]

Any suggestion for stats and equip for GC ? would be using it to farm GH and woe

[Debonair]

I know i'm bumping an old thread for this, but I have a semi-related question:

 

with the new GC formula that no longer has the kickback damage, can Guard now be used at the same time without interfering?

[ChakriGuard]

I know i'm bumping an old thread for this, but I have a semi-related question:

 

with the new GC formula that no longer has the kickback damage, can Guard now be used at the same time without interfering?

 

... Isnt GC cast time uninterruptible to begin with? When Guard procs, it wont stop GC from casting.

[Debonair]

... Isnt GC cast time uninterruptible to begin with? When Guard procs, it wont stop GC from casting.

 

what i mean is, for example,  that when Guard would block 1 wave of the kickback damage, it would also block that wave from hitting enemies. So you'd only have 2 hits from GC rather than 3 on enemies.

since the kickback is completely removed now, can you have Guard activated without it blocking any of the damage waves to enemies?

 

this would be super easy to test, but I don't have a character to test it with right now.

Edited by Debonair, 03 June 2020 - 07:19 PM.