294 replies to this topic

[Jeumae28]

BS and BB are good the way it is no need for changes

[Minicherry]

Someone mentioned that once trans comes out, the nerf to brandish should be undone.

I 2nd this statement.

 

I also just want to let Camp and all testers know that the only way to get over 6k brandish in Woe is to have ridiculously good weapon. (also take into account that people are wearing proper pvp/def gear/cards )

 

As another user said, if u put an ice pick on a rogue, he can spam 6k backstabs in WoE.  Is the skill Over Powered? or is the weapon Over Powered?  

 

if 1 geared knight is spaming bradish, no one is dying. 

if 1 geared Sader is spaming holy cross, u ded.

 

 

 

 

[ChakriGuard]

Just checking Camp, if you start to nerf something and alter updates from kRO, what exactly do you use to determine what is broken and what isnt? Assume you adjusted the BS and BB damages, something else would replace the meta and some people would complain and ask for a nerf. Whatever you do, there will be winners and losers.

When you announced that for now there isnt a plan to nerf Enforcer shoes as you want to keep OCPs true to their effects, no matter how broke MA is and how assassin job change is bugged (fake news?), I still understand and agree with you. But now, are you really ready to open a can of worms on RoT instead?

Edited by ChakriGuard, 06 May 2020 - 12:12 PM.

[Minicherry]

Exactly, no one is dying to a knight.  its fine the way it is.

 

people obviously strategies to have 20 knights all attack at once. that does not mean its OP. 

get 20 Hunters spaming Double strafe at the same target, then everyone will  cry  DS too strong?? 
 

again i want to see what weapon the knight that is doing 7k brandish is using.  because ive never been hit for 7k by a brandish. (id say i get hit for 3-4k)

[Equilizer]

1 handed BB should not be nerfed, it didn't have its damage changed and has a cooldown from the rebalance, only 2 hand BB and brandish should have their damage reduced.

Edited by Equilizer, 06 May 2020 - 12:20 PM.

[WhyFox]

Exactly, no one is dying to a knight.  its fine the way it is.

 

people obviously strategies to have 20 knights all attack at once. that does not mean its OP. 

get 20 Hunters spaming Double strafe at the same target, then everyone will  cry  DS too strong?? 
 

again i want to see what weapon the knight that is doing 7k brandish is using.  because ive never been hit for 7k by a brandish. (id say i get hit for 3-4k)

I'll try to be polite as possible.

 

Just think about it. If you think 20 Hunters spamming Double Strafe is OP, why then people didn't do it earlier? It's a rhetorical question.

 

All I say is: open your mind. See the bigger picture, if you never went to a WoE or haven't seen a crowded PvP room, imagine the effect of these two aoe skills (particularly BS) and what spamming them causes to the game.

[lilrey]

Exactly, no one is dying to a knight. its fine the way it is.

people obviously strategies to have 20 knights all attack at once. that does not mean its OP.
get 20 Hunters spaming Double strafe at the same target, then everyone will cry DS too strong??

again i want to see what weapon the knight that is doing 7k brandish is using. because ive never been hit for 7k by a brandish. (id say i get hit for 3-4k)

That weapon is a +10 Pole axe with 21% neutral in PvP environment.

A pike will not get close to that damage.

If we nerf things based on the top weapons, then we are doomed as only very limited knights has these kind of weapons as you know things breaks in RT.

Poor knight probably had about 10 pole axe or more trying to upgrade to make good damage. But then someone doesn’t like it and complains here in forums and here we are in this drama.

Always wants nerf to something that doesn’t please them. There’s only one reason for this complain, it is ofc to gain advantage in WoE.

If you complain about pvm, it is the monk that is to complain about because they always the MVP.

In WoE and PvP. Thats the way it is, you cannot nerf it to a point of balance without breaking the class on those environments.

You cannot seriously just play all knights in woe that’s not true.

All it is tactics, numbers also play a major part, and most of all coordination and support. It’s not because of knights.

[VModCinnamon]

A friendly reminder (yes I'll be watching this too):

 

Please share your feedback about the testing as well as other balance concerns in this thread. We want to hear from you. Do not attack other players concerns and views, let them say their piece.

 

 

 

Such as, dramatic postings will not be tolerated as they are not constructive and will be handled accordingly. Why I am doing this? To help the staff read your honest feedback properly without going through drama that adds nothing to the thread, so let's be helpful to one another, shall we?

[Campitor]

Just checking Camp, if you start to nerf something and alter updates from kRO, what exactly do you use to determine what is broken and what isnt? Assume you adjusted the BS and BB damages, something else would replace the meta and some people would complain and ask for a nerf. Whatever you do, there will be winners and losers.

When you announced that for now there isnt a plan to nerf Enforcer shoes as you want to keep OCPs true to their effects, no matter how broke MA is and how assassin job change is bugged (fake news?), I still understand and agree with you. But now, are you really ready to open a can of worms on RoT instead?

Renewal is going to have on going balance patches that shift the meta around in a regular manner. Since future balance patches are geared towards third job skills RTs meta is going to be relatively untouched by those other balance patches for a long time unless we adjust it as needed.

 

As for how I determine what needs adjustment.. I read the forums, I watch the community chats on discord, and then we test. I am going to try to avoid pulling quick shot nerfs except in cases where things are truly broken (1 shoting bio 5 mvps, crashing other users on entering a map,  etc).

[AaronP2W]

 

• • Our eventual target is PVP and WoE maps only

 

 

Why PVP and WoE maps only?

[5584171015142815377]

Exactly, no one is dying to a knight.  its fine the way it is.

 

people obviously strategies to have 20 knights all attack at once. that does not mean its OP. 

get 20 Hunters spaming Double strafe at the same target, then everyone will  cry  DS too strong?? 
 

again i want to see what weapon the knight that is doing 7k brandish is using.  because ive never been hit for 7k by a brandish. (id say i get hit for 3-4k)

 

a lot of people downplaying the damage in this thread. never balance around ungeared players. you balance around the top end potential because the best guilds will all be geared. who cares about players who are too lazy to gear themselves up anyway. they are just gonna get rocked in woe because they don't care enough to invest in it anyway. 

people are stacking 20 knights all at once BECAUSE they are OP. 

 

why aren't they stacking 20 of another class? because they don't do enough damage to be relevant. Why don't you see 20 grimtooth sins? 20 arrow shower hunters, etc. 
 

because those abilities don't do insane damage. 

 

Fact of Knights in pre trans meta is this:

1.) They are a top 2 tanky class along with Saders. Biggest base HP pool.

2.) Top Tier Damage with very short cooldowns that is AOE (two types btw, both ranged/melee now, defender can't work on both)

3.) Said damage can be endowed meaning you can't itemize or gear for it. (other than DEF)

4.) Also one of the fastest classes in the game because they are a peco class.


Knights can do something no other class can and that is just run headfirst into a stack without immediately dying to anything except G fist. 

This limits how fast you can get rid of them and means if they are both high damage, high dps, and tanky-ness there is no reason to not run a bunch of them.
 

You nerf knight, they will still be the primary class. You gut their damage by 50% they will still be the top tier class. That is how overpowered they are. You cannot do the same things with other classes that you can do with Knight. It's that simple. Their damage has to be limited because you can stack them unlike other classes which can get erased very quickly or just deal insignificant amounts of damage.  There is no argument I've seen here that acknowledges the fundamental advantages of the Knight class. Only comparing damage numbers between Knight and other classes.

 

 

Yes Alchemist is stronger, Backstab does more damage, etc. they still are not a knight. they don't have the survivability nor do they bring the pressure a knight does. Nothing is going to replace them because they are fundamentally strong due to their class design. 

Edited by 5584171015142815377, 06 May 2020 - 12:41 PM.

[AaronP2W]

1 handed BB should not be nerfed, it didn't have its damage changed and has a cooldown from the rebalance, only 2 hand BB and brandish should have their damage reduced.

 

+1

[Grief Heart]

There is zero reason to be looking into nerfing anything so soon after a change to the overall game. There have been underused skill on other classes, they are now viable. Defending Aura reduces the damage of brandish to just 20% damage. It is usable on more than 1 person Up to 6 total. 5 sac targets and the sader them self. 

I think the main thing people are failing to realize is that this "re-balance" has changed the entire dynamics of the game. The entire meta is going to change. And at a first glance everyone sees knights as the strongest in the game. So what if this was for a later progression, more than 1 skill in the game can stop Brandish. I think if you change anything right now it is much too soon and there will be complaints about something -always-. Some should be ignored.

[Nugeki]

Really don't Think Knight damage is bad at all. I just think it's alot of people who are neglecting key skills, and armor setups that can deal with Brandish.

 

If anything Wizards are REALLLLLLLLLLLLY over due for a buff on their damage output.

[jogooff2]

Nerf 20~30% to all maps please

[awesomegeek]

Camp,

kRO does not know what "Balance" is.
I'm saying this based on their track record and I will argue to the heavens who say otherwise.


Some people will say "X" is broken, some don't.
Its simply the people who invested on "X" and the onea who didn't. as simple as that.

Having said that, I commend you guys for listening to what other people say are "whiners".
Its not whining if its valid & reasonable.
Looks like you are really making sure RT does not go down a path where kRO shamelessly failed.


I just want to see Chaos get the same treatment.

[7319160618233814293]

People that complains are the one who does not want their class to be outpowered. It’s not even OP, just pneuma and you’re fine lmao

[euphoria1]

50% nerf is fair.

all maps please.

 

it's broke now.

[Chisami]

I have to somewhat disagree, due to the very valid concern I have as someone who spends time in the PvM environment farming for items. I am one of those people who can't afford to spend a great deal of money, which means I don't have the ability to sell cash-shop items and then purchase equipment, cards & the like ( I do purchase a few items VIP, a mount, and the occasional costume for myself only).

 

So, I must farm my items and when I'm farming, I'm competing with other players. Right now, the Knights and Crusaders are wiping up the place, albeit, not yet to the extent that I'm frustrated, but I do see a noticeable difference and one of the supposed advantages of rogues is our ability to 'farm'. We give up other advantages that other classes have in order to be a good farm class. 

 

I do think that the Knight is a bit OP atm. I could just as easily make one and play it, but I'd still say the same thing.

 

 

@Campitor Give Brandish Spear a hard cooldown of 4-5 seconds and reduce the damage by 25% IN WOE ONLY.

the damage outside of woe is fine, you have alchemists & assassins killing Raydric's in one shot and Saders can 2 shot them, hunters can just kill everything with traps anyways, the only problem is Damage of brandish spear in WoE settings.

 

 

[alexandrelp37]

Well, somebody that complains already thought in see the other side? I have a wizard with 9x vit and 6k hp. We don't have flee, we don't have hp and our cast breaks during the woe.

1 brandish or 1 bowling bash causes OHKO, even we have poo poo, Thara and Raydric. If it ranges two or more, kills the sac too.

The same for sages, priests, hunters, bards and dancers.

Not nerf 50% makes justice against a class that has almost 20k hp, high def and high movement speed?

It is just in woe and pvp. Not to talk about pvm...

Edited by alexandrelp37, 06 May 2020 - 02:00 PM.

[lilrey]

Why PVP and WoE maps only?

 

The question is, why we need to nerf it at all in PvP and PvM? What is the goal here? You do not compete in PvM because it is illegal to KS in the first place. 

 

In PvP what is the need to nerf? A very few people play in PvP, and we want to nerf knights why? Monks already dominates pvp we all know this. I just don't get the goal here. Knights cannot one shot geared(with 40% player reducts) while monks with just regular gears(without boss or miniboss cards) can one shot anyone even a ghostring and deviling card user. On top of that can counter BS skill with their neuma's. Monks are outclassing everyone in PvP. I don't get whats the need for a knight to be nerfed in this environment. The video circulated earlier, you see that knight cannot even kill the monk. I bet the monk killed the knight. 

 

I say let us allow the community enjoy the knight skill on those environments. I understand your concern in WoE because it is a mass scenario. But nerfing it to reduce damage to say 20% won't solve the problem either as they can just increase the knights in number again to compensate the 20% nerf and spam all the way in YOLO BB BS all the way in. Then nerfing it to higher % reduction than that will break the class in WoE. I mean it applies for the knights that don't have godly weapons they will not be able to do any substantial damage, they will be there to only Provoke monks, because it will be just a waste of SP to use BS or BB once it is nerfed badly.

 

The solution is to adjust game play, bring in more support, priest neumas, trappers. Counter the class instead of nerfing them. 

We cannot do this all the time it is not healthy for the community. We all share our support in this game.

 

There are many knights in PvP I saw, not all of them are OP like that knight in the video. Because, not all of them have +10 Pole Axe. 

 

Same case with Rogues, not all of them are OP because not all of them have Ice Pick. 

 

The skill is not the OP, it is the weapon as one said here. There will never be a perfect balance, because of these MVP's, mini boss, godly items, godly weapons etc.

 

If we are looking for complete balance, then we should just make these items like "skins" with no effects, a costume and make all same class.

 

Why do we even thrive to get these rare godly weapons and items if there is no gain of power from it? Why do you WoE? Because you want to get God items. 

 

Isn't this is the game all about? That is why these items exists. 

 

In PvP a 1v1 Rogue vs Knight a rogue with ice pick and a knight with pole axe, a knight will not win. 

 

So is BS OP? No, is Backstab OP because it beats BS? No its because of the weapon.

 

That is the very reason why we also don't have GTB in this server, because it is OP. It is not the class who uses it that is OP. It's the GTB itself is OP. Same case with all other classes. So a if you see a hunter equipped with MoT card, will we say hunter DS is OP? No, its the MoT MVP card that is OP not the class. 

 

And big note, to be able to do great damage you have to max your stat to 99, this isnt something normal for most class. 

Knights sacrifice their Vit or Dex big time to attain full 99str. 

 

 

We should really be careful with these requests as many other players do not like this idea. A lot of them do not even have account in this forum. 

 

@Campitor, please consider this. I see you mentioned you are looking at the feedback in this forum. Not all players have account in this forums. We have 3000+ population in Poring. Most of the players don't even go into this forum. Mostly the active poster here are from one guild that suggested this nerf. I think this situation is not being handled fairly. It was only one WoE and now this? Just because one guild cannot defend their castle, they complain here and warpportal cater to this request? A lot of friends moved out from Chaos to Trans, so we are really expecting it different in here since it is a new server and all hoping to get the full content without the nerf or intrusion of "some" players. But it doesn't look very good at this point when warpportal staff cater to this request. I strongly suggest that you keep it the way it is. 

 

We did a lot of testing with this rebalance. Before implementing it. Nobody complains about it. Now that maybe some other guild was able to gain control of some castles, we got this complain and now considering a nerf? 

 

Please we would like to play the game as is received from studio. We do not want players to interfere with this. 

 

Thank you

[Zekayn]

im glad they nerfing knights.. nothing more fun then entering an EMP room with fkin 30 knights waiting at the door with a pre-cast.. good for this patch, this knight meta.  Only class that has gotten near trans then any other. [Removed]. Knights have literally ruined this server, they in parties sucking up the priests SP, they have infested the fever fields, they have infested farming areas, it has become quite annoying how big of a problem knights have become. So good em. Keep up the good work warp portal at least you did something right and nerf them for WoE, maybe they will die out and the game can go back to being more diverse then having just a single class more superior then the other. 

Edited by VModCinnamon, 06 May 2020 - 02:14 PM.
Mod Edit: That was inappropriate.

[suzup]

Yall arguing about BB and brandish here.. and all i'm wondering is what kind of donkey is playing an alchemist, acid terroring raydrics? pots + acid bottle to kill 1 at a time what any other class can do for free? 

[lilrey]

Well, somebody that complains already thought in see the other side? I have a wizard with 9x vit and 6k hp. We don't have flee, we don't have hp and our cast breaks during the woe.

1 brandish or 1 bowling bash causes OHKO, even we have poo poo, Thara and Raydric. If it ranges two or more, kills the sac too.

The same for sages, priests, hunters, bards and dancers.

Not nerf 50% makes justice against a class that has almost 20k hp, high def and high movement speed?

It is just in woe and pvp. Not to talk about pvm...

 

No you cannot one shot wizard with 6k hp, with all those reduction and energy coat and assumptio. 

 

I have a wizard too. Knights with even +10 pole axe can only do max 4k damage. And knights with regular pikes can only do 2.8k damage max.

 

And btw, monks does oneshot everyone even with using mini boss cards neutral reduction + that 20% neutral reduction in the armor options. Now that is OP. As if you need 30k hp so you don't die. And that is not even having MVP's like Lady Tanee Card for example. 

 

I think we need to nerf monk GFist damage, monks being 2nd jobs should not be able to one shot Ghostring and Deviling card users.

[VModCinnamon]

The bait/troll postings need to stop please don't force me to do this. But here goes..

First and last warning, to please respond appropriately even when disagreeing. Failing to do so will result in account suspension without further notice.

 

Your feedback is highly valued so please try to post in the most constructive manner, as much as you can.

 

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