I have some suggestions on how to fix the knights problem in pvp/woe, other than just nerfing knights until they do no damage, which is still a problem, since the issue is not with 1 knight attacking you in woe, its with a stack of knights 1 shotting everything left and right. Lets say knights are doing 5k damage in woe, 10 knights stacked behind portal will do 50k damage, nerfing the damage by 50% (or even 25, 30 or any number) means the stack will still do 25k aoe damage and 1 shot everybody.
Before the suggestions, a brief info.
Knights are an easy class to play, high reward for low risk and simple mechanics (of course, you can see the difference between a master knight and a beginner knight), and that's fine. Every game needs characters like that, introductory characters for the players. To compare it to another popular game, think of garen and annie from league of legends. easy mechanics with either high damage or tankiness, however, in a high skills environment, you probably want lee sin or syndra/orianna in your team, for the play making potential.
Knights are the warrior archetype, heavy armor, high aoe damage, high hp...so we don't want to destroy their archetype.
However, here's the problem. Knights have basically 1 build that does everything (nevermind the agi build with 2 hand quicken, why kill monsters 1 by 1, needing a few hits, when you can just use bowling bash or brandish spear and kill 1 shot a group of monsters?). Other classes have pvp, woe and pvm builds, and we all know leveling a woe build can be a pain in the ass, unless have lots of consumables..and still a pvm build is faster (or leeching your woe character, or even your forger). In other words, there are builds that are more effective in pvm, and there are builds ahtat are more effective in woe. Knights can go high str and vit, some dex, get bb, get bp and do pvm, pvp, woe equally well without having to choose between A and B. To compare it with other classes, a high agi sin can do well in pvm, but having 1 vit wont be that good for woe. HC saders can do well in pvm, but supporting their guild with sac is a better option for woe. Knights do not have to choose, problem number 1. Having low sp pool can be compensated in pvm with cards.
also, people believing that thara nad poopoo is full reduction is part of the problem. this isn't ragnarok classic, we cant play RT like that. the options in gear have altered how you equip your character.
Im not going to tell people what to play in woe/pvp/pve. If you want to play your 99 agi, 1 vit sin in woe, that's fine. go do it and have fun, but don't expect winning vs knights. Small or casual woe guilds can still play whatever they want in woe, but for the top, big guilds who want to play competitive, playing woe builds can yield a better result in woe than playing a pvm build. That's problem number 2, other classes do not have many answers to deal with the knights problem, and those who do, still choose builds that are sub optimal for woe.
To summarize, knights can be the most effective in pvp/woe/pvp with just 1 build, while having high aoe damage, level fast, are easy to play, hard to kill (highest hp modifier in the game) and can carry a lot of consumables.
Im going to offer some suggestions now. @WP, im not saying all these should be implemented, maybe you can just pick 1 option and forget about the rest. Consider as many or as little as you want. rollingback the skill update is an option, but I don't think anybody wants to go there
Some of these suggestions affect knights directly, and some others affect other classes, but give them the ability to counter knights. Why is that? Guilds who want to be at the top and play competitively will think about forming better parties compositions and not just recruiting any player. We know compositions matter.
1- knights:
1- not sure to what extent warp portal is able to modify the game, but you could change the skills requirement so that knights have to choose to either bowling bash or brandish. compared to, lets say crusaders, saders have to either choose GC, AA spear, HC, Shield, Support (or mix and match).
BP can be countered by pneuma or Defending Aura, then knights can simply use BB and BB can be stopped by safety wall, in which case, knights can simply use BP. Now, lets say 10 knights are attacking you, if 5 have bb and 5 have bp, we can at least negate the damage of 5, effectively reducing the damage by 50%
2- another solution would be making BP the woe build and BB the pvm build. since you cant knockback in woe, you can add a limiting to bb to not deal damage (or deal very little damage) if the target isn't knocked back. this way knights can be countered in woe by proper team composition, sac saders can give defending aura to their guild members and help reduce the damage from knights. this will make guilds who wants to stay at the top, to create a better line up to deal with the enemy knight stacking strategy.
3- simply lower the damage, but this will require a big damage nerf and will make a lot of knight bandwagoners unhappy.
4- since bb is a melee skill and now bp is a ranged skill, change how the stats affect them. For instance, make bb be affected by str, and bp affected by either dex or dex and str (half and half maybe? you find the right number) so this will limit what knights can do in different situations (safety wall, pneuma). Or if they want a high damaging build with bp, they would have to go higher str and dex and lower vit, giving the player the option to build either for more damage or more tankiness but less damage.
5- make their skills interruptable, or at least interruptable by some condition.
6- force their skills to 1 element, at leats in woe, to maybe neutral or fire, or if you implement solution 2, bp could be forced to one element.
2- Other classes (adding counterplay mechanics)
1- priests
1- make sw/pnuema work in magnetic earth, or at least give half of the affect. Players NEED to be in ME in woe, and this can be heavily abused by knights as priests cant protect their allies. Maybe making sw/pneuma block 50% or 75% of the damage inside ME and full damage outside ME can help with the issue.
2- make kyrie a party buff and increase the numbers (at least in woe). kyrie protects for about 30% of the target hp and it has to be casted to 1 person at a time. priests cant simply keep up with this and fight damage with kyrie (unless half of the guild is just priests spamming kyrie to 1 person each 
). if kyrie protects for more hp, lets say 70% (or lets say a % based of the caster priest hp) and affects all party members (like the new suffragium or impo) this can help reduce the damage taken and guilds who wants to stay at the top will have to recruit more priests and put at least 1 in each party to counter other guilds).
2- crusaders
1- buff sacrifice, lower the fixed cast time
2- allow all buffs from the crusader to be passed down to the players under the effect of sacri (you could tweak the numbers and lets say players will only get 50-70% of the effect. for instance, buffing only the crusader with kyrie will give kyrie to all the players under that crusaders sacrifice, so instead of making kyrie a party buff (iirc bishops already do that, but we aren't getting those in RT), the priest can just spam the sader with kyrie and help his party members survive the barrage of BB/BP.
This can motivate top guilds to recruit more sac saders to help counter the knights problem.
3- bards/dancers
1- add some form of damage reduction for their party to either melee skills or ranged skills in % (something like the options from gear)
4- alchemist
1- give them tools to deal with knights, since we don't have biochemists yet. make acid terror do more damage based on the hp/defense/vit of the enemy (or a combination of those) since knights have the highest hp modifier, this could help in killing them before they can kill your whole guild). so countering knights with alchemist would be an option instead of just countering knights with more knights.
5- equipment
1-make defensive options on gear stronger in woe, allowing players to survive by simply farming better gear, which is what this game is about anyway).
that's all for now, if I think if something else, I will add it.
id like to hear more suggestions from players as well, instead of just saying nerf knights plz too op.
btw I don't play a knight in rt.
edit:
6- blacksmits
1- give bs some sort of debuff that lowers damage ( or some sort of cc) that can affect high vit classes, maybe on hammerfall, cart revo or mammonite. make make the player affect by the debuff do less damage with 2 handed weapons, or with spears.right now blacksmiths are basically buff slaves for knights. their purpose is just to sit back and buff knights so knights kill everybody lol, and every now and then harassing some mage or monk)
Edited by farmer25, 09 May 2020 - 01:18 PM.
