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(Chaos) Changing the Heal skill formula


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#1 PervySageMarty

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:39 PM

Hello Everyone,

 

As a Main support AB player, it has really come to my attention that as the amount of damage everyone does skyrockets over into the millions from back in its days where even 10k damage was considered top tier, AB players that play as party heal support have been left behind in the dust. Even with the plethora of accessible gears and easy upgrading events, AB healing is still very far from an acceptable standard. Damage that is dealt by every other class has basically multiplied by 10x in the current post modern Ragnarok Online, where doing 50-100k damage per second is achievable with some investment. However, Healing Support AB's can invest into the BiS gears for doing the best heal outputs, but can only barely achieve a maxed Heal skill total of over 10k, 15k if your on the better side of that scale with a full party of 12 people and have Offertorium buff up using Coluseo heal.

 

The High Priest, as said in their introductory description back then on the original official website and even still quoted to this day on iROwiki, is a "Bulwark in the storm". I ask you all now, are they, and by extension are AB's really a Bulwark in the storm as suggested? I think we can all agree here that AB's nowadays are basically like the a Barrier Warrior, the moment some insane new content (much like the upcoming 17.1 content) comes up, our shields will pose all the resistance of wet tissue paper. 

 

Therefore I propose the following skill formula as a Re-balance for your considerations (everything else is the same):

 

 

HP restored = [((MATK/2) x [(Base Level + Total INT) ÷ 5] x (Skill Level x 5)) ÷ 30]

 

Notes

  • HP Restored and Damage are also influenced by Weapon Level.
  • This skill is only affected by Weapon MATK and Status MATK.

Let us have a discussion about this.

 

 


Edited by PervySageMarty, 10 July 2020 - 03:42 PM.

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#2 3025140119203620510

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 05:59 PM

Heal could probably use 20% buff as many OCP gears now grant players some 20-50% extra HP.

There are a lot of SP, cooldown, and cast delay reduction for AB, and I think thats the better direction than over buffing heal directly.

The job of AB isnt to be a healing tower but to balance buff, damage prevention / reduction, and heal support. Heal is the least SP efficient skill and buffing heal significantly will trivialize the class as OCP already provided significant buff to ACD, SP consumption rate, and Cooldown.
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#3 Ashuckel

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 07:10 PM

So you're saying that someone with measly 125 total int and 600 total matk should heal for 30000, prior to any heal% increase.


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#4 PervySageMarty

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Posted 10 July 2020 - 11:31 PM

These are all very good points. Well Ash I thinking at least somehow clear 10k heals before heal% modifier as most 3rd class can clear 10k damage pretty much just by weapon and stats alone mostly. But you raise a good point.
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#5 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:30 AM

not to downplay your efforts but healing should be scaled with regards to player health rather than other players' damage. Not an expert on AB so i'll skip out of the proposal, but i think you'll make more sense if you can prove that heals are not catching up to monster damage or sustaining player HP rather than player damage.

 

Good luck.


Edited by blackCROSSCY, 11 July 2020 - 12:31 AM.

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#6 PervySageMarty

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:50 AM

not to downplay your efforts but healing should be scaled with regards to player health rather than other players' damage. Not an expert on AB so i'll skip out of the proposal, but i think you'll make more sense if you can prove that heals are not catching up to monster damage or sustaining player HP rather than player damage.

 

Good luck.

 

Heya blackCross,

 

Its a point well made. If its about proving it not catching up to monster damage then take bio4 or bio5 even with people geared up with as much reductions as possible. But then again because pots and slims don't have a cool-down its hard to really put forth a proposal in regards to that. This is probably the only reason why i had to compare it to the multiplication of player damage from past to the present, because with full gear investment into BiS(or at least to what each player says) their damage has effectively gone up to x10 whilst a full gear investment BiS AB heal has only reached x5 (or x7 for the extremely rich) in power.

 

Now if we look at the Max HP people had back then we are looking at Lord Knights or heck even normal Knights reaching the 10k HP mark, and average Priest players reaching 2~2.5k heals which is effectively around 1/4 the usual Max HP to heal. This however contrasts to today's Rune Knight's where 50k Max HP is very much an average but your average AB player would heal around near the 5~7k High Heals, on an average effectively this is 1/10 the usual Max HP to heal, maybe even 2/10, meaning a lot more effort needed. Of course there is the obvious CON to this type of argument as this is basically comparing Pre-renewal with Renewal, which as our kRO overlords in Gravity would think is total blasphemy.

 

But you do bring a very good point to the table and I think that being an expert or not on AB's should not really effect whether you should participate, as this is an open discussion and any input has its merits.


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#7 Ashuckel

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Posted 11 July 2020 - 07:54 AM

instead of making an entirely new formula, wich this one is stupidly high, you can just make a small ajustement to the current one.

From

HP Restored = [SkillLv × {(BaseLv + INT) ÷ 5} × 3] × [1 + (SkillMod ÷ 100)] + MATK

to this

HP Restored = [SkillLv × {(BaseLv + INT + MATK) ÷ 5} × 3] × [1 + (SkillMod ÷ 100)] 


Someone with at lvl 175 with 150 total int and 500 matk(from high weapon+stats) will heal for 1950* Heal% boosts + 500 currently.

If you change where the matk is located into the formula you'll have a healing of 4950* Heal% boosts

It could also be that any matk is applied to healing, not just weapon and stats. So even something like Odin's Power would increase your heal too. Rocking 1k matk would give you a 7950 heal prior to any gear bonuses.



Healing values shouldn't be compared to damage values, but their recovery power in relation to classes hp pool. And you gotta accept that the heal will still look "lackluster" in classes that mainly stack HP, such as RK, but they will heal plenty on others that don't have the same luxury, say WLs or Rangers. A 20k heal on an RK with a 150k hp pool looks weak, but that same value can be half of another class entire HP pool.


Edited by Ashuckel, 11 July 2020 - 09:31 AM.

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#8 PervySageMarty

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 12:24 PM

That's very true and a very good revision of the formula. Now if we can just write up a proposal to gravity for a change.....
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#9 mlmf

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 04:12 PM

High heal should be 20-30k at least imo, that wont even heal my 50 vit WL for half

Edited by mlmf, 12 July 2020 - 04:13 PM.

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#10 gaurus

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 05:09 PM

I have to disagree with making heal depending on matk.... Unless the formula is exclusive to only fs ab... Just thinking that other class could heal themselves or others with just hibram glove or heal clip makes me kinda like mehhh... I don't want that.
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#11 Ashuckel

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Posted 12 July 2020 - 06:55 PM

Heal already "depends" on matk. It just has a very poor scaling on it, and on the entire skill as a whole.

A Mage class using a Vitata card for Heal level 1, with the stats displayed above, currently heals for 695hp.

If you change the position of matk in the formula the same mage will heal for 495hp instead.

With Lv3 heal currently it is 1085.
With the change it is 1485.


The change of where matk is located greatly benefits skill lvls above all else. Mages can have a decent heal sure, but it wont compare in the least to someone who has access to the skill at lvl10.


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#12 PervySageMarty

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:03 PM

that sounds very good. If they did that from the start, maybe people playing support bishops wouldnt be so depressed that healing is low in numbers compared to the spam of slim pots. If healing was that high in the very beginning regardless whether people invested into much Heal% gears or not, at least a more decent Heal and High Heal would be exhibited all round.

 

It really is sad and for a lot of people, even me, its a tough job aside from keeping buffs up to keeping HP up for everyone. It is also no wonder alot more AB's choose to go the hybrid Exorcist build considering if its already hard enough to support large parties as a regular FS, why not just use the skills to help themselves with them taking to the front of the battlefield without help from others. Sure beats stressing keeping a large party alive that would just berate you into the ground because one person ran out of Slims.


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#13 ChakriGuard

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:23 PM

Come heal me in AOGH please T.T
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#14 PervySageMarty

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 02:27 PM

Come heal me in AOGH please T.T

 

Would absolutely love to. But I heard you already have a very good AB partner. Whatever happened to her?


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#15 ChakriGuard

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Posted 20 July 2020 - 03:33 PM

Would absolutely love to. But I heard you already have a very good AB partner. Whatever happened to her?


Quit since 2018 along with other heroes :(
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#16 PervySageMarty

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Posted 21 July 2020 - 11:26 AM

Quit since 2018 along with other heroes :(


That is indeed sad to hear of your loss. I hope this open discussion on changing the heal formula may bring her back. Maybe she was just feeling down as slim potting just does her job without her input and it made her feel inadequate.
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