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Shopping Boards, Lowballers and the "Morally suspect"


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#1 S207

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 06:58 AM

Behind are the Ragial days, where people have an average price and some price evolution historycally stored in a website.
 
I want to make a point here and be clear: An item price is set by the buyer and the vendor by common agree. A flattery may cost 5m if both parts agree that price, but we all know there are sort of average price for certain items wich may have a tiny or wide range of prices. However, the reason of this is what everyone who play this beloved game knows before december hiatus. The exit of Ragial from our economy has impact the way we look for prices. In a common day, you can search an average item price by forum market section, facebook groups dedicated to market in Ragnarok, discord servers with market channels and shopping board ingame.
 
This last is the reason of this post. There are certain players who stock the zeny to the limit and put items under the common average price to try pull down the price and take advantage of the people selling at the price they set, even sometimes under that price. Its responsibility of the seller the price they want to sell (I wont discuss that), but in the case of new players, or old players returning back to RO with this unknown economy its common to look at the boards for a price reference and watch these lowballers.
 
Chakri may explain this in short words:
 

Current shopping board is as manipulative as Ragial. You can pretty much have a max. zeny char vending an item that cant be bought. Also, this -> this price cutter will use an alt to monitor the lowest price <-, so either you play iRO 24/7 to monitor the board (assuming you dont use bots to do it for you?), or you can just sell WPE lol

Anyway, yeah things dont sell not because of WP. Most of -_- oging in iRO is due to players xD


And then we have the "RO1 In Game Rules and Guidelines" where the first rule is:
BC9Ij2Z.png

And then the big question. Is this activity "Manipulating the market with lowball prices" may be considered as "Morally Suspect" and can be reported?

 

 


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#2 RonSilver

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 07:05 AM

its a scam, by abusing this bad vending store mechanic.

the store should fail to open if the total zeny amount of selled items exceeds the zeny capacity of the merchant.


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#3 aTID2

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 09:49 AM

so we report scam? Because we can't buy from that vending. 

 

Now we merge difference type of player, one who's manipulate the market and one who isn't have much zeny to buy that price.

 

It's not like buying cheaper than NPC price, or selling fake expensive items.

 

even there no abuser, player still cutting the price to making it sold faster. 

 

Vice versa, seller that force the price to be higher than average(Highballers) also Morrally suspect?  :questionmark:

 

I don't really like concept about average price on the items, this making modern game market really depressing. I doesn't said Ragial is bad.

Average market price not only have a good side. When the items become scarce, we still need to sell average price? 

 

 


Edited by aTID2, 14 August 2020 - 10:06 AM.

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#4 ChakriGuard

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 10:40 AM

The concept is rather simple. A seller that selling an item that cant be sold due to him having max. zeny should be banned. Other than that, sell however lower you want or higher you want. Though I doubt if WP will even ban anyone at this point. The population is already so low, but iRO has become a concentration of toxicity.  :heh:  :heh:  :heh:

 

I actually dont mind if people want to just be a bit creative and do this and that, but it is always funny when people complain to WP when again most of -_- going on in iRO is due to players  :pif:


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#5 aTID2

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 11:00 AM

The concept is rather simple. A seller that selling an item that cant be sold due to him having max. zeny should be banned. Other than that, sell however lower you want or higher you want. Though I doubt if WP will even ban anyone at this point. The population is already so low, but iRO has become a concentration of toxicity.  :heh:  :heh:  :heh:

 

I actually dont mind if people want to just be a bit creative and do this and that, but it is always funny when people complain to WP when again most of -_- going on in iRO is due to players  :pif:

 

make it offline vending, rodex never max in zeny  :ani_slur:

 

also you can't buy when you got no zeny too.  :ani_money:  Instant fix  :heh:


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#6 TattooedChef

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 11:28 AM

Behind are the Ragial days, where people have an average price and some price evolution historycally stored in a website.
 
I want to make a point here and be clear: An item price is set by the buyer and the vendor by common agree. A flattery may cost 5m if both parts agree that price, but we all know there are sort of average price for certain items wich may have a tiny or wide range of prices. However, the reason of this is what everyone who play this beloved game knows before december hiatus. The exit of Ragial from our economy has impact the way we look for prices. In a common day, you can search an average item price by forum market section, facebook groups dedicated to market in Ragnarok, discord servers with market channels and shopping board ingame.
 
This last is the reason of this post. There are certain players who stock the zeny to the limit and put items under the common average price to try pull down the price and take advantage of the people selling at the price they set, even sometimes under that price. Its responsibility of the seller the price they want to sell (I wont discuss that), but in the case of new players, or old players returning back to RO with this unknown economy its common to look at the boards for a price reference and watch these lowballers.
 
Chakri may explain this in short words:
 


And then we have the "RO1 In Game Rules and Guidelines" where the first rule is:
BC9Ij2Z.png

And then the big question. Is this activity "Manipulating the market with lowball prices" may be considered as "Morally Suspect" and can be reported?

 

 

Your flow of logic is so convoluted, do you not understand how an open market works?

By your logic the GM's would have so many complaints being filed that nothing would ever get done.


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#7 ninJedi

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 12:01 PM

Y stop at suspension?

tenor.gif?itemid=16779501

jk

 

What will the determining factors be though? How will we make sure legit vendors don't caught in the mess? (like those who reach the zeny cap by making lots of sales)

 

Something else I also want banned as abuse:
People who use 1z offline buy stores to hold spots >:/


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#8 ChakriGuard

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 12:14 PM

 

 

What will the determining factors be though? How will we make sure legit vendors don't caught in the mess? (like those who reach the zeny cap by making lots of sales)

 

Something else I also want banned as abuse:
People who use 1z offline buy stores to hold spots >:/

 

If they' can sell their items so fast that their zeny is capped, I'm sure the guy wont be afk for too long to lose an opportunity to make zeny from that potential buyer/buyers. If I know something I sell is selling out fast (since I'm happy with my price, so is the buyer), I will always try to restock the supplies. You know, it aint easy to find a buyer these days. Another solution is like the first guy already said, "the store should fail to open if the total zeny amount of sold items exceeds the zeny capacity of the merchant.". Other than that, the seller should take a responsibility to calculate the zeny capacity :P

 

Though like WoE, WP aint gonna do anything. So, take as much item as you want to do your homework, so you can be happy selling your items /yawn xD


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#9 S207

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 12:22 PM

Your flow of logic is so convoluted, do you not understand how an open market works?
By your logic the GM's would have so many complaints being filed that nothing would ever get done.

 

Putting a watermelon at $0.2 in a store front of other store wich sells at $1, if a new seller joins the market and see the prices, would understand his watermelons worth $0.2 if he want to compite against the first store. But the fun fact is you can't buy from the first store. There are a lot of other factors but that's not the point. Im making an example with watermelons to see if you can catch the point.
 
The offline sellers its the best RO has introduce so far in years. Its a blessing for us, the legit sellers. However I do understand its totally impossible to ask for something wich may include a core mechanic change to the dev team. its like build a pyramid in the desert just with butter.
 
For sure, there are legit players who may reach max zeny selling 3 or more items, but its really clear when someone is playing the market putting 30m items wich may worth 150m+ and unable to sell.
 
I was just making a point in the way they are playing the market, and did some clarifications in the first post with the price buyer and seller agree before a transaction,
 
A friend of mine send a ticket, not waiting for something to happen (we dont have hope in iRO staff tbh and really knows nothing gonna happen) just to know what would be the official answer from the staff about it, and told him to link the rule No.1 of the RO1 In Game Rules and Guidelines, this was the answer:

"My name is Ar***** from WarpPortal Team Support.

Regarding your reporting. Any price and in-game economy, we cannot take part in it and the player controls it. Just be careful with any offering for cheap items and asking for personal data to avoid any scams."


Possible solution? Pray for a miracle and see if dev team can copy/paste the vend mechanic fm offline store to the skill store so we can have zeny in our RODEX. Complicated? its just a copy/paste and fix eventual small bugs it may cause but as I state before, may be totally impossible for the dev team.


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#10 aznspikey

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 01:05 PM

If iRO could customize the vending skill, zeny would be rodexed to the vendor like offline vending. Merch having max zeny wouldn't matter. No more vending just to take offers for items worth 1B+ and No more market manipulation.

But we prob won't see that happening till 2069.
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#11 ninJedi

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 02:34 PM

A different suggestion:
Vend stores auto-close when the vendor's zeny goes beyond a certain amount (somewhere around 1.7b - 2b). Use of Vend skill is disabled beyond that same amount too.

 

This won't prevent un-purchasable items entirely but it will limit the price range that can be abused.

Spoiler Explanation

But... this also requires the studio to make an effort ._.


Edited by ninJedi, 14 August 2020 - 02:45 PM.

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#12 S207

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 02:55 PM

A different suggestion:
Vend stores auto-close when the vendor's zeny goes beyond a certain amount (somewhere around 1.7b - 2b). Use of Vend skill is disabled beyond that same amount too.

 

This won't prevent un-purchasable items entirely but it will limit the price range that can be abused.

Spoiler Explanation

But... this also requires the studio to make an effort ._.

 

It is, but we know the studio must work very hard to fix other issues before do something against market manipulation, the copy/paste option from the voucher requires less effort
 

And the very last option, if there is a law, just apply and no effort needed at all from dev studio but we have that thing that lowballers gonna hate: the dilema of deciding whats market manipulation and "unmoral" (read rule No.1 from RO1 In Game Rules and Guidelines) and what is not. But tbh thats very easy to avoid that limit and continue with legit sales.


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#13 fenrir99

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 03:45 PM

They won't ban sellers with maxed zeny and neither invest in any replacement of Ragial. The idea to cancel the store wether the zeny cap will be exceded if items are sold out is a really good one, but it will be heard?

 

I trust someone with hacking skills will override the EAC and implement a new Ragial.


Edited by fenrir99, 14 August 2020 - 03:46 PM.

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#14 mlmf

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 03:57 PM

Isnt the easiest solution to this is to make all buying and selling pass through rodex whether offline or online vending?
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#15 WhyUs

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 04:09 PM

Just remove the zeny cap. Easy.
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#16 YongkySH

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 04:27 PM

just disable merchant's vending skill and give everyone access to offline vending scroll


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#17 aTID2

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Posted 14 August 2020 - 11:55 PM

make it offline vending, rodex never max in zeny  :ani_slur:

 

also you can't buy when you got no zeny too.  :ani_money:  Instant fix  :heh:

 

Stop making hard idea pls, iRO can't change "BASE" what Ragnarok is.

 

iRO will not rollback patch to day that no error to buy and making all vending lose there zeny cuz its capped.

 

 

:mellow: ing Ragial, if we got better on shopping board. (that so :mellow: ing hard to use)


Edited by aTID2, 14 August 2020 - 11:55 PM.

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